Old Dog
Member
Still waiting to hear exactly what a "Colt M1" is. M4? M16?
Expensive Rifle for sale at my range
- Thread starter triplebike
- Start date
- Status
illinoisburt
Member
My point is an AKM is not terribly rare or special everywhere else on planet Earth. In fact they are extremely common and very inexpensive, except for here in the US. Which seems a little funny given we are the largest legal civilian firearm marketplace.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,139
No civilian transferable machineguns could be made after May 19,1986. You limit the supply and price goes up. Cut it off completely and you can get over $8k for a $150 gun.
https://gunspot.com/mgcsection/transferable_machine_guns/
https://gunspot.com/mgcsection/transferable_machine_guns/
AlexanderA
Member
Point taken. The parts of the world, where AK's are common and inexpensive, really fall into two categories: Third-World failed states, such as Somalia and Yemen, where AK's are legal (but you wouldn't want to live there), and then places, such as parts of southern and eastern Europe, where on paper they are prohibited or tightly regulated, but the regulations are roundly ignored by the population. An example is Greece, where all centerfire rifles are generally prohibited, but nevertheless the country is awash in Kalashnikovs. (Just today, the police uncovered yet another cache of buried AK's outside the town of Kastoria. It is said that some members of the police were the ones originally involved in putting the guns there. https://www.ekathimerini.com/256878...ons-and-ammunition-found-buried-near-kastoria For every cache like this that is found, there are probably a hundred more that are not found.)
Americans are surprisingly law-abiding. They will pay thousands, and jump through all sorts of hoops, to own the few legal machine guns, but they won't take the risk for illegal ones. (Unless, of course, they are already career criminals.) The typical American gun owner wouldn't dream of routinely keeping an illegal machine gun in his closet.
Last edited:
I suppose if one really wants to play w the new FA stuff they gotta be a dealer.
Mo money mo money mo money.
And then when they quit the samples have to go bye bye
Think there a store front req.
Can ya piggy back your FA store off an existing establishment?
Like say you own a cigar store but want to sell FA to agencies.
Thatd be a cool place
The ultimate smoke shop.
Mo money mo money mo money.
And then when they quit the samples have to go bye bye
Think there a store front req.
Can ya piggy back your FA store off an existing establishment?
Like say you own a cigar store but want to sell FA to agencies.
Thatd be a cool place
The ultimate smoke shop.
Last edited:
Mn Fats
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2017
- Messages
- 2,372
I thought I was the only one. Maybe Carbine?
Colt M1 usually goes hand in hand with Garand or Carbine.
Old Dog
Member
Naw, the M1 Carbine was semi-auto only. Only companies that made the M1 were Winchester, Underwood Elliott-Fisher, Saginaw Steering Gear, IBM, Standard Products, Rock-Ola, Quality Hardware, National Postal Meter, and Irwin-Pedersen.
The M2 version, that came at the end of WWII and was issued into the Korean War, was, on the other hand, full auto.
The Garand, as one of the premier battle rifles of all time, was semi-auto. Never made by Colt. The M14 also was never made by Colt.
The M2 version, that came at the end of WWII and was issued into the Korean War, was, on the other hand, full auto.
The Garand, as one of the premier battle rifles of all time, was semi-auto. Never made by Colt. The M14 also was never made by Colt.
AlexanderA
Member
Distrust of government in Greece goes back to the 400 year Turkish occupation (if not before). The entire history of Greece has been a struggle against despotism of one form or another, the latest being the military Junta of 1967-74.
If you get to know Greeks really well, the guns start to come out of the woodwork. All sides pumped guns into Greece during WW2 and the civil war that followed. Then the latest wave was the Kalashnikovs that came into the country after the collapse of the Hoxha regime in neighboring Albania. (The Greek police estimate that there are at least 250,000 AK's floating around the country -- all illegal of course.) Some villages in Crete, such as Anogia and Zoniana, are so lawless (guns, drugs, etc.) that the police don't dare to go there. But those villagers operate by their own code, which is pretty rigid. They have their guns, and outsiders better not cross them. Everyone who has tried, from Turks, to Nazis, to the current Greek police, has regretted it. (You don't hear much about this because it would hurt tourism.)
Last edited:
AlexanderA
Member
Colt didn't make either Garands or Carbines. The only thing it could be would be a Thompson -- but not an M1 Thompson, because Colt didn't make them.
I was offered several NFA guns years ago for $1 K (M16) . I was also offered an M14 for S850 , or an M3 for $450. These were offered to me by a sheriff deputy. No papers. Not a set-up , I knew him well enough and knew where they came from as well. I was also offered an aircraft .50 BMG the guy wanted me to repair. I turned him down. I knew the guy and I knew the airplane that had crash landed and had the guns removed before law enforcement or military had gotten to it. The guns spent many years under the floor boards of a garage packed in grease. The one I was offered to repair had a bent receiver and barrel. I also had an M1 carbine come into my shop for repair. I popped the trigger assembly out. Put it back together, and called the guy to come get it out of my shop ASAP. It was converted.
I have no desire for a full auto. No papers could put me in jail for some time. NFA guns way to expensive for me. I've shot enough Full Auto to know what it is like. Thrills all gone.
I have no desire for a full auto. No papers could put me in jail for some time. NFA guns way to expensive for me. I've shot enough Full Auto to know what it is like. Thrills all gone.
Last edited:
AlexanderA
Member
Depending on where you are in the gun business, you sometimes encounter unregistered machine guns. Probably 9 times out of 10 these are ATF stings.
In all my years of collecting, I only ran into one such case -- a Carbine marked "M2" on a gun show table. I pretended not to have seen it.
It's way past time for an FA amnesty, as provided for in the GCA '68. For that to happen, the Hughes Amendment would have to be changed.
If the NFA is changed in the slightest -- as is being proposed now to bring in certain semiautomatics -- it would blow the whole thing wide open. There would be a lot of wheeling and dealing, and it would end up unrecognizable.
In all my years of collecting, I only ran into one such case -- a Carbine marked "M2" on a gun show table. I pretended not to have seen it.
It's way past time for an FA amnesty, as provided for in the GCA '68. For that to happen, the Hughes Amendment would have to be changed.
If the NFA is changed in the slightest -- as is being proposed now to bring in certain semiautomatics -- it would blow the whole thing wide open. There would be a lot of wheeling and dealing, and it would end up unrecognizable.
Bob Willman
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2018
- Messages
- 166
Yes it would be Jaqua's. I worked in Findlay from 1980 to 1993. In the early 80s Jaqua was downtown Findlay, a short walk from Marathon Oil, and we would stop in during lunch break. He later moved northeast just out of town and I would stop in occasionally after work or on weekends. The only times I could pick up a $40,000 shotgun off the shelf and actually handle it. His new gun room at the store was probably 30' X 70' with 12" reinforced concrete walls with no windows and only on vault door about as thick.I think he may still be there but it's been over 20 years since I went there. I did buy a used Ruger Bicentennial Blackhawk in 45 Colt an 45 ACP from him. Fond memories though.
redneck2
Member
Knew a guy that had brought back a full auto AK from Bosnia. It could have been mine for $800, plus maybe 10 years at Club Fed
I suppose turning money into noise is a fascination for a lot of guys. I just see dollar bills evaporating
I suppose turning money into noise is a fascination for a lot of guys. I just see dollar bills evaporating
Bob Willman
Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2018
- Messages
- 166
I have many fond memories from perusing Jaqua's gun room. I'll spell my name backwards so we don't get confused.
Bob
WB8NQW
Conelrad
Member
A shooter friend of mine said the only reason he had kids is so they would link up ammo for a shoot.
Conelrad
Conelrad
Thread moved to NFA firearms.
MachIVshooter
Member
I suppose if one really wants to play w the new FA stuff they gotta be a dealer.
Mo money mo money mo money.
And then when they quit the samples have to go bye bye
Think there a store front req.
Can ya piggy back your FA store off an existing establishment?
Like say you own a cigar store but want to sell FA to agencies.
Thatd be a cool place
The ultimate smoke shop.
The money is the least of the issues with being a dealer.
To acquire post sample machine guns, there are two options
Class III is a dealer; this is the SOT attached to FFL01. Type 01 is an easy license to get and cheap to maintain, but you will need an LE/govt demo latter for each MG acquisition
Class II is the SOT class for FFL07 & 10. This is a manufacturers license, and we can build post samples, which doesn't require any letters or other authorization. It's not carte blanche to build all kinds of machine guns for personal entertainment, though; they do still need to be demo models or stocked for export or sale to govt/LE at a later date. But that's where the latitude exists, because there are no finite timelines or anything on the disposition of manufactured MGs. However, the trouble with a type 07 or 10 is that your business location cannot have prohibitions on manufacturing businesses. This eliminates the extreme majority or urban or subrurban residences, and even a lot of rural ones. There are also many commercial properties which are not zoned for manufacturing, so the manufacturing license will be denied. Class II manufacturers also still need demo letters to acquire existing post samples, so if you're not actually capable of manufacturing, then it doesn't do anything for you which a class III doesn't. That's why a lot of 07/02s only have the easily converted stuff like M16s and Glocks, and why more capable 07/02s like me who actually can make precision parts and assemblies are constantly hounded for custom conversion parts by other type IIs. I can't even tell you how many inquires I've had for closed bolt 10/22 parts.
And, of course, there are the other drawbacks to being an FFL with either SOT type. No, ATF can't barge into your home any time they feel like it as some people seem to believe, but they can tell you "today is compliance inspection day", which they can do once per year, and it doesn't matter how inconvenient that is for you. And there are annual reports for mfrs, as well as some reporting on the renewal for any FFL other than 03, so you have to have goood record keeping. Dealing with ATF is actually not a big deal IF you are the fastidious type. But if you're not and they find errors in record keeping, you get follow up inspections (no annual limit on those) and get labeled as a problematic licensee, who is more likely to get the annual every single year.
Becoming a licensee just to have machine guns would be stupid. The novelty wears off quickly, especially when you're paying for the ammo. For most people, the best thing to do is rent them once in awhile to get your full auto fix.
- Status
