If you could suddenly have one muzzleloader, what would it be.

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This is one of three Hawken rifles I bought together at a local pawn shop. The other ones I sold were made by the late Ted Fellows of Spokane WA, and John Bergmann of TN. I kept the best of the three due to the finesse of the workmanship and its overall beauty, which some think is a contradiction of terms. A well-known gunmaker here in the Carolinas, once remarked at a shoot that there were two things highly overrated, teenage sex and Hawken rifles.

This rifle was built by Joe Corley of AZ in the early '80's and hung in Art Ressel's Hawken Shop in St Louis for a spell. Joe was a gunsmith there. The .54 cal barrel was made by H & H Barrels, and the Ron Long made the lock.
The real beauty is the "furniture" and the lock. Excluding the barrel, everything else is color case-hardened. More than one collector has remarked that its the "prettiest girl at the dance".

A .540 RB and 120 grains of GOEX 2FG groups well at 100 yards for large game.

Got a couple fellers that call occasionally to wonder if I'm ready to let it go, which I'm not yet. The best offer is up to 27 "Franklins", so I guess I can consider this my as my "savings account".

IMG_0949-2 copy.jpg Corley Hawken Rifle-08.jpg Corley Hawken Rifle-09.jpg Corley Hawken Rifle-12.jpg
 
There are a lot of muzzle loaders out there I haven't seen yet, but so far, I would go with my Hawken .50
 
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i still want something in .58 cal. Does anyone have any experience with the reproduction Richmond carbine? I'm just wondering if they are well made or not.
 
i still want something in .58 cal. Does anyone have any experience with the reproduction Richmond carbine? I'm just wondering if they are well made or not.

James84,
Dixie sells the Armi Sport 1862 Ricchmond Musket and all of the reviews except one gives it 5 stars. --->>> https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...product_name/SS1149+1862+C.S.+RICHMOND+MUSKET

The Richmond carbine is basically the same gun from the same maker as the musket except shorter, so one would expect the same quality.
 
But such a steep price tag heh. Some ten years ago I paid that same amount for a 2004 model colt match target ar15 with a 20 inch ss bull barrel. If anyone can clue me in, why do these reproductions cost so much?

If I spend a thousand dollars on a side lock, will it be any better than a typical 250 dollar traditions deer hunter for example? Will it shoot better than my deerstalker?
 
But such a steep price tag heh. Some ten years ago I paid that same amount for a 2004 model colt match target ar15 with a 20 inch ss bull barrel. If anyone can clue me in, why do these reproductions cost so much?

If I spend a thousand dollars on a side lock, will it be any better than a typical 250 dollar traditions deer hunter for example? Will it shoot better than my deerstalker?

These guns are produced in relatively low numbers.
Yet there's many operations needed to put the gun together.
If they weren't made in Italy, they would be even more expemsive.
There's overseas shipping and even the distributor needs to make a profit.
These guns probably sit on the shelf for 5-10 years before they get sold.
Not a real populat model either.
I'd be surprised if they sell 200 - 300 of the carbines world wide each year, and that's probably being generous.
Why do you think that TC got out of the sidelock business?
Investarms was selling TC copies for almost 1/2 their price.
Even USFA couldn't stay in business.
Remember them, they were located in Hartford, CT assembling high end Uberti Colts and Colt SAA's.
They made great products but were simply too expensive for most, and they had invested heavily in new equipment.
Don't forget Euroarms, Armi San Marco and Palmetto all went out of business since about 2000.
If Chiappa/Armi Sport didn't sell so many different modern guns they probably wouldn't stay in business making BP guns.
There's not much profit in it to justify keeping a large factory open.

Civil war reproduction guns really can't be compared to average sidelocks.
They're mostly made for re-enactors and history buffs.
There's used muskets on the market from when people pass away and they get auctioned, or when folks stop re-enacting or shooting, and downsize their collection.
The N-SSA probably isn't a growing activity either, it involves a lot of time and commitment.
 
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These guns are produced in relatively low numbers.
Yet there's many operations needed to put the gun together.
If they weren't made in Italy, they would be even more expemsive.
There's overseas shipping and even the distributor needs to make a profit.
These guns probably sit on the shelf for 5-10 years before they get sold.
Not a real populat model either.
I'd be surprised if they sell 200 - 300 of the carbines world wide each year, and that's probably being generous.
Why do you think that TC got out of the sidelock business?
Investarms was selling TC copies for almost 1/2 their price.
Even USFA couldn't stay in business.
Remember them, they were located in Hartford, CT assembling high end Uberti Colts and Colt SAA's.
They made great products but were simply too expensive for most, and they had invested heavily in new equipment.
Don't forget Euroarms, Armi San Marco and Palmetto all went out of business since about 2000.
If Chiappa/Armi Sport didn't sell so many different modern guns they probably wouldn't stay in business making BP guns.
There's not much profit in it to justify keeping a large factory open.

Civil war reproduction guns really can't be compared to average sidelocks.
They're mostly made for re-enactors and history buffs.
There's used muskets on the market from when people pass away and they get auctioned, or when folks stop re-enacting or shooting, and downsize their collection.
The N-SSA probably isn't a growing activity either, it involves a lot of time and commitment.

Thanks for The insight. I've always been into civil war history, ever since I was a kid.
 
A long time ago I responded to a newspaper ad about a muzzle loader for sale.
IIRC it was a Parker Hale reproduction P53 Enfield Musketoon with a 24" barrel and made in England on the original machinery which I didn't know anything about.
The lady said it belonged to her ex-husband who was a re-enactor and she wanted $400 for it.
I wasn't interested but it was probably worth more, and if I had offered her less she would have sold it to me.
It was something that a person would really need to be interested in to invest that kind of money at the time for a used gun.
But the way that prices are now days, $400 is small change for that brand and model.
I can remember new Investarms sidelock carbines used to cost $99 - $109 brand new at a gun shop in Preston that I just happened to stop in as I was passing by.
But I didn't buy one from them either.
 
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If you could suddenly have one muzzleloader, what would it be

So IF it's you could only have one in your possession..., then that would be a 20 gauge trade gun in flint, as I would not be dependent on caps, and I could shoot shot and take deer with round ball,

BUT...,


I take it the OP is you suddenly get to choose a muzzleloder from those that are out there to be your very own, what would it be...,

THINKING.JPG

I'd have to say, Wall Gun on a Carriage...aka an Amusette!

WALL GUN ON CARRIAGE.JPG

(basic info and blank firing of the wall gun)

and

(LIVE firing of a wall gun..., slow motion is at mark 3.00)

LD
 
A long time ago I responded to a newspaper ad about a muzzle loader for sale.
IIRC it was a reproduction P53 Enfield Musketoon with a 24" barrel and made in England on the original machinery which I didn't know anything about.
The lady said it belonged to her ex-husband who was a re-enactor and she wanted $400 for it.
I wasn't interested but it was probably worth more, and if I had offered her less she would have sold it to me.
It was something that a person would really need to be interested in to invest that kind of money at the time for a used gun.
But the way that prices are now days, $400 is small change for that brand and model.
I can remember new Investarms sidelock carbines used to cost $99 - $109 brand new at a gun shop in Preston that I just happened to stop in as I was passing by.
But I didn't buy one from them either.

There is an 1855 Springfield for sale near me and they are asking 750 dollars. It is a legitimate musket from that era and not a reproduction. It’s just to bad that it looks rough and most likely unsafe to fire. The last couple inches of the barrel is rusted pretty good and appears very thin. The nipple is shot too. Includes what looks like the original rod as the patina is the same.
 
(LIVE firing of a wall gun..., slow motion is at mark 3.00)

Wow! That rascal must take a quart of moose milk to clean.
The video is close enough for me as far as getting behind it goes.
The loading sequence looked like a 16" naval gun with multiple pouches being added.

I've already got mine since I can't pick a Ferguson.
My .58 is really a shooter and I know the gun.
70 grains for fun and 110 grs. for money.

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JT
 
i still want something in .58 cal. Does anyone have any experience with the reproduction Richmond carbine? I'm just wondering if they are well made or not.

They are OK, but I’d go to the North-South Skirmish Association BB and ask around. Buy something that is already sorted out.
 
I'd like to get a kibler southern mountain rifle, probably in 45, I'd like a 36 but the 45 I could use for deer and small game.

I Fowler would be the smart choice tho, jim kibler is working on that, fingers crossed.
 
I read that as ONLY one, and I think that was not the intent. I haven't been into the sport long enough to know what my heart's desire might be. That's what's so nice about this forum, I can LEARN what hearts desire might be!
 
Whitworth 45 with the mechanically fitted bore/bullet. I'll trade my two hand built flinters, my TC Renegade, my original H.Leman 38 squirrel rifle, and an original Belgian double and throw in a Navy Arms Magnum 12. PMe. Doesn't have to even be an original.
They had an original at rock island not long ago as I recall. Or maybe it was just shown on forgoton weapons. Quite a gun in it's day but spendy. The one shown was a confederate purchased gun.
 
With apologies, I just realized this is the rifle I could not do without; custom made black powder only Sharps 45-70 rifle w/ a very precise Vernier tang sight. I am the second owner and have consistently hit an 18" gong @ 300yds. I think the rifle could easily do twice that with the right hand loads.

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With apologies, I just realized this is the rifle I could not do without; custom made black powder only Sharps 45-70 rifle w/ a very precise Vernier tang sight. I am the second owner and have consistently hit an 18" gong @ 300yds. I think the rifle could easily do twice that with the right hand loads.

She is a looker
If you ever stop treating her right she can come live with me
 
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