Discreet Urban Carbine

If it's time to be discrete then it's time to concealed carry.
If it's time to go to long guns then carry what works for you.

For me the low signature urban rifle niche is filled with a 16” AUG. You get rifle ballistics from a very handy weapon that can be covered up while slung with a bulky jacket, if needs be.

BSW

briansmithwins said:

The other factor is power. If I’m going to lug around a rifle sized object I want rifle ballistics, both external and terminal. PCCs are fun and all, and I really like mine, but pistol calibers just aren’t as effective as rifle rounds.BSW

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Carry a Browning BLR and you give up nothing in power. And if you can somehow afford extra mags for it.... lol.

As far as discrete, not seeing anything is as discrete as you can get. As mentioned previously, a Kel-tec Sub2000 in a computer bag with a 33 round mag in it is discrete, and back in action faster than any take down rifle.

A wood stocked Mini-14 shooting the same cartridge with magazines of similar sizes is still more discrete than an AR.

Personally I think your Marlin is a pretty good choice. I like the Marlin's action a bit better than the 92 or Henry, and it has enough power, capacity and rapidity for both deterrence and practical effectiveness.

Given your basic premise, the one gun I can think of that might improve on it hasn't been available for several years: the IMI Timber Wolf. Also once available in .44 Magnum, it has a slight advantage in speed (for me anyway) of pump over lever, plus a quick takedown feature for removing the buttstock for even more discreet transport. The rifle could easily be taken for an old Winchester .22 plinker from a distance, but up close you can't miss the big hole at the muzzle!



I think IMI's timing in bringing this rifle to the market was unfortunate -- used examples bring a real premium right now, routinely selling for north of $1.5K on GunBroker. I wonder whether IWI would consider giving it another try?

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My observation is that SHTF weapon choices are like official Covid19 policy decisions: no matter what you choose, it seems like everyone will give a different reason why it is dangerously mistaken! I recommend going with what you know, and making sure it's zeroed and functions properly.

For me, the most important and difficult aspect of this problem is safe but easily accessible storage. Defensive shooting incidents tend to be surprise parties -- will your weapon be in your hands when you need it?

In my own case, the answer is a qualified maybe because I carry a 5-shot revolver in a 5-11 holster undershirt or within arm's reach during about 85% of my waking hours. Not the most effective weapon or the quickest access, but it's the combo that works best around my lifestyle.

Winchester 1892 in .44mag rides in my trunk.

Don’t get me wrong, any gun is better than no gun when you really, really need a gun. I’d rather have a .22 pump action rifle if my other choice is a pointy stick.

I just want as effective a weapon as I can have with me, and we’re generally taking about something with more reach than pistols deliver in the rifle section of this forum.

BSW

If I were to walk in my neighborhood,, in a small city surrounded by Houston sprawl, with any visible firearm, there would be nothing discreet about it. Either an AR15 or a Winchester lever rifle would alarm folks. Actually, I still “look like a cop,” so, depending upon how I am dressed, if walking about with an AR15, I might well be assumed to be an off-duty or plain-clothed officer/agent, as local folks are conditioned to seeing local, state, and federal LEOs with AR15 rifles, more so than anyone walking about with a “cowboy” rifle. Of course, thirty to fifty miles, from here, a bit more out in the sticks, a lever rifle would appear normal, and this being Texas, an AR may be no more alarming than a lever rifle.

A lever rifle is slimmer than a typical, angular “black rifle,” so, can more-easily be kept covered with, or stored within, a mundane-appearing item. I could sling my 94AE Trapper under a loose jacket, or tote it inside a tripod bag, or similar mundane bag, for discrete carry. (A 16”-barreled Trapper is a bit too long for yoga mat bags I have measured.)

I might never have bought into the AR15/M4 system, except that my employer, at the time, Houston PD, started a patrol rifle program in 2002, with the greater awareness of the war on terror coming home to the USA, on 11 September 2001. If I wanted to carry a rifle on patrol, I had to buy what was on the list of approved rifles, and the mandated cartridge was .223 55-grain jacketed soft-points. Of course, having bought into a nice system, which scratched my history-buff itch as well as being practical, I have stayed with it.

If peeps can see it then it ain’t discreet.

I would go with a 30 caliber carbine clone for a "social" situation. As for lever actions being less "frightening... I remember when Dad was riding his horse in the front pasture complete with a Marlin 336 in a saddle boot. The city people transplant that lived adjacent actually had the nerve to cross the fence and demand that Dad cease his "disgusting display" of his weapons of war. Dad told the dog to put the guy back on his side of the fence and that evening Dad and the sheriff laughed about it.

I stopped pretending I was John Wayne about the time I started shaving. Discreet means out of sight. This is easier to keep out of sight than a lever gun

https://ruger.com/products/ar556Pistol/specSheets/8570.html


If it can't be a semi then the bolt action scout rifle concept makes more sense than a cowboy rifle. While it doesn't meet the exact scout criteria this is close enough for me. An 18" barreled Ruger Predator. It has the 3 round mag in it, but I have multiple 5, 6, and 10 round mags for it. It is lighter, and shorter than most 30-30's even with the scope on it. It is every bit as fast for AIMED repeat shots.

This is discreet carry; even better pistol braced or SBR'd with a folding triangle stock.

Note: this is not mine just a screen grab off the net, I don't want any grief about the "darwin award" for the rear sling mount. That's some kind of stupid there.

theotherwaldo said:

If it's time to be discrete then it's time to concealed carry.
If it's time to go to long guns then carry what works for you.

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This is quite sensible, but firearms laws do not always allow the most-sensible carry solutions. There is another section of the forum for getting further into the details, but the rifle-relevant part is that some jurisdictions are friendlier to long guns than handguns.

If I wanted a "discrete" carbine - urban or otherwise - I'd figure a way to disguise it so that it does not look like what it is.

I like my lever actions. They're fun. But, for "urban carry" I'd be working on ways to disguise an AR before I'd do the same for a lever-action.

I would choose an AR pistol and put it in a messenger bag. I have a Carbon15 pistol (and a couple of rifles) which I don't shoot because, obviously, the barrel lug problem. It has never jammed but I have only about 1K rds through it.

But any AR pistol with a folding stock and 7.5 " bbl should be able to fit in a discreete messenger bag, architect's portfolio bag or some such.

My Sig P400 converted to 7.62x39 x 10.5" lives in this (the blue one):

Dave DeLaurant said:

Personally I think your Marlin is a pretty good choice. I like the Marlin's action a bit better than the 92 or Henry, and it has enough power, capacity and rapidity for both deterrence and practical effectiveness.

Given your basic premise, the one gun I can think of that might improve on it hasn't been available for several years: the IMI Timber Wolf. Also once available in .44 Magnum, it has a slight advantage in speed (for me anyway) of pump over lever, plus a quick takedown feature for removing the buttstock for even more discreet transport. The rifle could easily be taken for an old Winchester .22 plinker from a distance, but up close you can't miss the big hole at the muzzle!

View attachment 943807

I think IMI's timing in bringing this rifle to the market was unfortunate -- used examples bring a real premium right now, routinely selling for north of $1.5K on GunBroker. I wonder whether IWI would consider giving it another try?

===

My observation is that SHTF weapon choices are like official Covid19 policy decisions: no matter what you choose, it seems like everyone gives a different reason why it is dangerously mistaken! I recommend going with what you know, and making sure it's zeroed and functions properly.

For me, the most important and difficult aspect of this problem is safe but easily accessible storage. Defensive shooting incidents tend to be surprise parties -- will your weapon be in your hands when you need it?

In my own case, the answer is a qualified maybe because I carry a 5-shot revolver in a 5-11 holster undershirt or within arm's reach during about 85% of my waking hours. Not the most effective weapon or the quickest access, but it's the combo that works best around my lifestyle.

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Often amusing to see stuff like this. Someone makes something like this, seems to generate little interest and is dropped. Then EVERYONE just seems to have to have one. To the point they will pay out the nose for it.
If they finally get the autos so we can't buy them anymore stuff like this will make a huge comeback. One of those is .44 would be SWEET!

Discrete? At this point in time people are not wearing dusters, trench coats, or other overly large and long outer garments to conceal much of anything. Seems that the be discreet a person would have to use a folding or collapsing gun that is easy to deploy. That pretty well means a “braced pistol” or an SBR. Of the options, it seems a paratrooper m1 carbine would be a good option, but also many other somewhat modern designs. Scorpion, draco, Keltec bullpup guns, lots of ridiculously small guns for what they are exist. If I’m picking a gun to keep and carry though, I want simple and light. Probably going to be a basic AR and to that point I want heavy bullets that are more effective up close. I really like 10mm so that’s a solid option.

jmr40 said:

If it can't be a semi then the bolt action scout rifle concept makes more sense than a cowboy rifle. While it doesn't meet the exact scout criteria this is close enough for me. An 18" barreled Ruger Predator. It has the 3 round mag in it, but I have multiple 5, 6, and 10 round mags for it. It is lighter, and shorter than most 30-30's even with the scope on it. It is every bit as fast for AIMED repeat shots.

View attachment 943843

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All you got to do to scare an anti-gunner that doesn't know guns is put in that 10 round mag and have plenty of exposed picatinny rail.

I "think" a lot of people are misunderstanding what most mean by "discreet". My take away was the OP did not mean not seen. Rather less "freak out factor". The media has been on a "Black Rifles are evil" crusade for a LONG time. Many who do not know which end a bullet comes out do seem to "know" what black rifles look like. You can put a Mini 14 and an AR next to each other and a LOT of people who are not gun people will never believe they are the same thing. The Mini looks like something "ok or fine", the AR looks like those things only the Devil would own. Right or wrong it's just it is what it is. Many who would freak out in fear of anything AR, even if it was a .22, would not bat an eye at a Mini or a lever.

Alex Clayton said:

I "think" a lot of people are misunderstanding what most mean by "discreet". My take away was the OP did not mean not seen. Rather less "freak out factor". The media has been on a "Black Rifles are evil" crusade for a LONG time. Many who do not know which end a bullet comes out do seem to "know" what black rifles look like. You can put a Mini 14 and an AR next to each other and a LOT of people who are not gun people will never believe they are the same thing. The Mini looks like something "ok or fine", the AR looks like those things only the Devil would own. Right or wrong it's just it is what it is. Many who would freak out in fear of anything AR, even if it was a .22, would not bat an eye at a Mini or a lever.

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Discreet in a semi-rural or rural area, sure. But as Rexster mentioned in post #32 in the urban areas or suburbs of a large city, any shouldered long arm isn't discreet. Even in Texas.

If I were in an Urban environment, a folding stock Ruger 10/22 might be a good option.
Its not an 'intimidating' gun when seen, either.
120 yards and a face sized target isnt that hard to hit, anything closer will certainly get shot, a dozen 25rd mags in one pocket, a 500 rd box of ammo in another for starters, to be carried alll day long.
Very quiet compared to other guns, and ammo is probably in your couch by some change or ina utility drawer, or a sporting goods store...

I’m a gun person. If I saw a guy walking across the parking lot with an AR, 30-30, or a single shot 12 gauge my instinct is the same... time to get out of Dodge.

“Best” case scenario is its somebody trying to do an open carry “protest”. However my mind jumps to mass shooter or suicide by cop profile.

Edit, its all about context. A gun out of place concerns me. Same could be said for a baseball bat or hammer. In their context, they are innocuous.

earlthegoat2 said:

They were never dead before this resurgence but the idea of the “tactical lever gun” that IS a recent fad, is DOA except in the circumstances pointEd out by @BigBL87

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It's only as recent as semiautos being banned in more creative cosmetic ways trying to force us back in time.... a time when......

The lever action is the original AW.

Remington 7615P

nipprdog said:

Remington 7615P

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Too dangerous for commonfolk. Detachable magazine and a pictinny rail.