Proper way to hold crescent shaped stock?

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Saw a post by Armored Farmer at one point about the proper way to hold a Crescent shaped stock. Truth be told, I'm no fan of it because of how it digs into my shoulder uncomfortably. If there's a proper way I think I found it, and that is to hold the rifle 'off-handed', meaning you grip the rifle with both hands near the wrist.
Am I correct? Which is the proper way to stock a crescent buttstocked rifle?
 
You may get some tips here: --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...plains-rifle-comfortable.718696/#post-8960484

I'm not sure what the "proper way" is since there's are different ways to hold a rifle, every gun has a different length of pull and people use different stances.
Possibly holding it further out on the shoulder, or against the bicep /arm while raising the elbow in a classic hunter style of hold is one way.
That could be slightly different for everyone based on all of the variables, length of the buttstock, length of a person's arm and their stance, which in part is how a person angles their body toward the target which can involve how they place their feet.
A person may need to experiment to find which hold works best for them.
If you've found a way to hold your gun that works for you, then you found "the secret to holding your gun."
It's very personal and can result when you develop a personal attachment to that gun.
 
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You're all right in that the off-hand stance is pretty solid for me so it's a valid way to shoot this rifle. I never knew about the arm hold, despite all the books I've read about American rifles. Would've been useful info. As far as I can tell, they all treated the crescent shape as style and not for any practical function.
So my elbow is supposed to be straight out? Could any of you please provide a historic painting perhaps of the proper 'huntsman' stance for shooting these rifles?
 
I have four rifles with crescent buttplates, all lever-action Winchester repeaters. You hold the butt offset, not on your shoulder so you dig the points into your body, but off to the upper arm right on the armpit. It's no big deal.
I tend to like carbine butt and shotgun. AR-15 butts work just great.
I get it that some people just don't like crescent plates but to me, it's sorta "meh." The rifles I have with crescents are repro of 19th century repeaters and I appreciate authenticity and like original styling so the style of butt plate is just part of that package and you learn to use it right .... or just accept the results.
 
The crescent butt came around because barrels were getting longer and heavier. Resting on the arm shifts the pivot point and shifting the weight back more, the crescent holds the gun to the arm so the gun won't tip away from you.
 
You're all right in that the off-hand stance is pretty solid for me so it's a valid way to shoot this rifle. I never knew about the arm hold, despite all the books I've read about American rifles. Would've been useful info. As far as I can tell, they all treated the crescent shape as style and not for any practical function.
So my elbow is supposed to be straight out? Could any of you please provide a historic painting perhaps of the proper 'huntsman' stance for shooting these rifles?

Buttplates can have many different types of shapes and curves, and the Swiss buttplates had hooks for support.
Here's some examples of the different buttplates: --->>> http://www.hallowellco.com/buttplate.htm

I found a thread with a couple of photos: --->>> http://levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=32398

Top-Cres-Hold.jpg Fron-Cres-Hold.jpg
 
You may get some tips here: --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...plains-rifle-comfortable.718696/#post-8960484


Good to know!!
Thanks




I'm not sure what the "proper way" is since there's are different ways to hold a rifle, every gun has a different length of pull and people use different stances.
Possibly holding it further out on the shoulder, or against the bicep /arm while raising the elbow in a classic hunter style of hold is one way.
That could be slightly different for everyone based on all of the variables, length of the buttstock, length of a person's arm and their stance, which in part is how a person angles their body toward the target which can involve how they place their feet.
A person may need to experiment to find which hold works best for them.
If you've found a way to hold your gun that works for you, then you found "the secret to holding your gun."
It's very personal and can result when you develop a personal attachment to that gun.
 
The crescent buttplate and the schuetzen style butt with hooks are not the same and are meant for different holds, or rather that schuetzen style was meant for one hold only. The schuetzen style with "hooks" or stock extensions was intended to fit the top of the arm, with extensions above and below the arm, because schuetzen is all standing offhand. The crescent buttplate is not 'meant' for the upper arm, per se, but was designed to allow more comfortable positioning in the upper arm for offhand shooting. For bench type shooting it wants holding snugly in the shoulder pocket. For bigger folks, that may be near impossible and for smaller folks it may be rather uncomfortable.
 
For bench type shooting it wants holding snugly in the shoulder pocket. For bigger folks, that may be near impossible and for smaller folks it may be rather uncomfortable.

Well I've held a scant few of the "crescent" butt plate style rifles..., so I can't say what I've observed is true for the majority of them, but...,

I noticed on all four..., there was a good amount of "cast off" on the stock for a right handed shooter. YET I see some folks producing copies of rifles that are very similar, but without the cast-off stock, which seems to me to be part of the problem with folks using the crescent butt plates in a proper manner.

LD
 
Howdy

Many years ago I had a 30-30 Winchester Model 1894 and the barrel had been cut down to carbine length. The magazine had been cut to half length too. It had a crescent shaped butt plate. Being cut down, the rifle was very light. Now, 30-30 is not a super powerful round, and it does not recoil as much as some, but I could never stand to fire more than about 3 rounds out of that Winchester because it hurt so darn much every time I fired it. That rifle was stolen many years ago, I wish I still had it, because about 20 years ago when I first started shooting Cowboy I discovered the proper way to shoot a rifle with a crescent shaped butt plate.

Yes, there absolutely is a proper way, and an improper way to shoot a rifle with a crescent shaped butt plate.

This is the rifle I was using when I first started shooting CAS. It is an original Winchester Model 1892 chambered for 44-40. Notice the crescent shaped butt plate.

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An original Winchester Model 1873 that left the factory in 1887. Chambered for 38-40. Notice the crescent shaped butt plate.

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A 44-40 Marlin Model 1894 that left the factory in 1895. Crescent shaped butt plate.

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38-40 Marlin Model 1889.

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Uberti replica 1860 Henry, 44-40. This is the rifle I shoot most in CAS. Crescent shaped butt plate.

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None of these rifles is a particularly heavy recoiling rifle, in a full length rifle 44-40 and 38-40 do not kick all that much. But I wish I had a dollar for how many CAS shooters complain about the recoil from their 45 Colt or 44-40 rifles equipped with crescent shaped buttplates. Simply put, they do not understand the proper way to shoot a rifle that has a crescent shaped butt plate. To a man, they place the butt against the meaty part of their shoulder, they face straight on to the target, and they hunch over to bring their face down to the stock. Even with a relatively light recoiling round such as 45 Colt or 44-40, the points of the crescent get driven into the meaty part of the shoulder and it can hurt. There is a brisk business in CAS with after market butt covers to cover and cushion the butt plate.

The simple answer is a crescent shaped butt plate should be mounted slightly further outboard, so the points encircle the bicep. That way, the points keep the butt from sliding up or down, and the points are not in contact with any flesh. A shooter's stance usually has to be altered too. I generally stand at about a 45 degree angle to the target, rather than facing it at 90 degrees. This means the rifle is slung more or less across my chest, rather than pointing 90 degrees away from me. And I always raise my elbow, to bring the rifle up to my face, rather than hunching over to bring my face down to the rifle. Granted, if one is trying to shoot a lever gun rapidly, as most CAS sooters do, this technique is not the fastest. That's why so many CAS competitors mount their rifles the way they do, rapid fire is easier that way.




Back in the 19th Century, Winchester and most of the rifle manufacturers made their rifles in 3 different configurations. All of the lever guns pictured so far are the rifle configuration. Notice on the above photos, all the rifles have crescent shaped butt plates, there is fore end cap at the end of the wooden fore end, and the magazine is suspended under the barrel by a hanger dovetailed into the underside of the barrel.

This is a Winchester Model 1892 Saddle Ring Carbine. (the saddle ring is on the other side) Winchesters and other brands in the carbine configuration were identified by more than a short barrel. Notice the butt plate is not as severely curved as the butt plate on the rifles. The rifle crescent shaped butt plates are cast. The carbine butt plate is a simple piece of strap metal bent to shape. Notice too, there is no fore end cap on the fore end. The fore end is held in place by a barrel band. Notice there is a second barrel band up front, holding the magazine in place. Front sights were either brazed directly to the front barrel band, or brazed to the barrel like on this one. If you watch many of the old Westerns, the most common rifle was a Model 1892 carbine, just like this one. No matter what ere the movie was supposed to take place in.

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Here is a pair of old Winchesters. Both are 30-30 Model 1894s. A good comparison of a rifle and a carbine. The rifle at the top of the photo left the factory in 1895. It has the standard crescent shaped butt plate, fore end cap, and magazine suspended from a hanger dovetailed into the underside of the barrel. This rifle happens to have a 26" octagon barrel, but with Winchester rifles, barrel length did not define a rifle. Rifle barrels could be as short as 12" or 14", or as long as 30". This 94 is pretty heavy with its 26" barrel, but when I shoot it I always mount it as I have mentioned, to keep the crescent points from digging into my flesh.

The carbine below the rifle was made in the 1940s. A very flat butt plate, no fore end cap, and two barrel bands.

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By the way, the third conflagration of 19th Century leverguns was what were called muskets. Not what we normally consider a musket today, these had fully rifled barrels. They looked like an over grown carbine, with the same stock and butt plate configuration. Barrels were rifle length, usually at least 28". The most significant feature of the muskets were the fore end extended almost all the way to the muzzle, and they usually had three barrel bands to hold everything in place. This style of lever gun was not seen very often in the US, most of them were made for sale to foreign governments for military sales. As such they usually had a bayonet mount too.

Even the 22 gallery rifles such as this Winchester Model 1890 usually came with crescent shaped butt plates. However they did not recoil enough to notice if the butt was placed on the meaty part of the shoulder.

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When I bought my 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps about 20 years ago I made sure to buy one with a 'shotgun style' butt plate, I knew I would be mostly shooting it from the bench. It is awkward to mount a rifle butt out beyond the shoulder at the bench. With it's flat butt plate I can mount it against the meaty part of my shoulder, and even with my Black Powder 45-70 loads it does not hurt in recoil. Just gives me a solid shove.

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Those Winchesters have "wimpy" crescent butt plates.
Here are some of the painful type to shoot from the shoulder:View attachment 943692

Those are not painful to shoot at all if you hold them right. In fact, if the gun is made with cast off and toe out they are about the most comfortable style of butt plate out there. I really like them.
 
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