First reload bell crimp and OAL questions

Looks good to me. On the bell you only need enough for the base to clear the edge and when you seat the bullet there will already be enough tension. The crimping is to remove the bell with a slight taper so as not to deform the bullet. I normally check the tension between my fingers, if the bullet does not turn it is good enough.

I’m moving through the steps for my first time too. I flared mine tonight and plan to prime tomorrow. My cases don’t look like pic 2 above. The only ways I can tell mine are flared are that the bullet barely goes into the case mouth or by measuring with calipers. I can’t tell by looking.

goose1 said:

I’m reloading my very first batch and am reading, double checking and asking lots of questions. Today it is on belling the case and OAL. Batch 1 will be 124gr JHP 9mm target loads.

Setting the bell I get none, .004 or .025. I can’t seem to hit between.015 and .020.is .025 too much? Should I tweak it down?

Having trouble seeing perfect crimp. On the picture mine is on the left, commercial rounds are the two on the right. How should I determine I’m there?

On OAL I’m at 1.096. That’s a little below my manual but closely matches some ammo I have around. I assume the manual gives max OAL, how much below that is ok?

Any advice is appreciated.

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Flare looks a little much. You only need enough that the bullet will sit in the case without falling out before you seat. With FMJ or some plated, you need very little flare. Your pic showing flare would be appropriate for a lead non-plated bullet to prevent shaving. Try a little less flare-- you don't have to measure it, just turn in the die a little and try it. If it's still enough to work with your bullet, then good. If it's still a little much, turn in the die a little more. You'll be able to tell if you go too far--the bullet will keep falling off the case when you set it there to seat. If you go too far, just back the die out a little.

Welcome to THR!

goose1 said:

Setting the bell I get none, .004 or .025. I can’t seem to hit between.015 and .020.is .025 too much? Should I tweak it down?

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As others have pointed out, you have way too much bell even for a lead bullet. You only need enough to prevent shaving whatever bullet type you’re loading. Minimum bell will also prevent overworking the brass, which is a good thing and prevents work hardening of the metal. Your expander or PTX die should be adjustable to whatever you require, not finite steps. What are you using?

Regarding the COL, 9mm is a high pressure round. Shortening COL below the published load data is not advised for a beginner reloader. You also need to first check your maximum COL allowed by the gun or guns you’ll be shooting your reloads in. Hopefully you’ve done this? JHP tend to have the most restrictive max COL due to the shape of the bullet.
You shouldn’t compare your reloads COL to “other ammo you have” , unless you’ve personally developed that ammo and know the DNA. Factory ammo will vary and you don’t have any idea what they’ve loaded.
If you’re loading a very fast powder, like Titegroup, shortening a COL will also produce higher pressures faster than other more forgiving powders. Having said that, if your data lists 1.100 and you’re at 1.096, the .004 shouldn’t be a problem, assuming you don’t have any bullet setback. Good luck!

lordpaxman said:

Regarding the COL, 9mm is a high pressure round. Shortening COL below the published load data is not advised for a beginner reloader.

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+100

Your variation in flare is due to varying case length and thickness. Set your expander flare for shortest casing. Unless you trim cases to uniform length, you will have to live with this aggravation.

Welcome to the wonderful and oft frustrating and confusing word of reloading!

I tell newer reloaders to use as much flare as needed to get good shootable ammo today, and worry about case life later. Flare as much as you need to be able to seat the bullets straight ("too much" flare is when the flared case won't enter the seating die.). Flare/case length variation means nothing unless the cases vary in length more than .010", and it will be removed in the deflaring step (I have never trimmed a hand gun case in 40 years of reloading). Forget the term "crimp", think "deflare". Neck tension holds the bullet in place and not crimp, so you just need to remove any flare so the round chambers freely. I use a plain taper crimp die for deflaring and use the plunk test. I can't remember when I had a round fail to chamber when I just deflare...

What bullets are you using?

What is your load data?

What loading manual are you using?

Have you done the plunk test to determine what OAL is required to fit your chamber?

Rod47 said:

Your variation in flare is due to varying case length and thickness. Set your expander flare for shortest casing.

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I agree.

When adjusting die for taper crimp, I usually recommend measuring samples of various headstamp resized brass as brass work hardening and repeated reloading will shorten the case length.

And with case activated powder through expander, using shorter case length to set the flare amount will expand longer resized cases a bit more which is beneficial when using lubed/coated lead bullets that are sized larger than jacketed/plated bullets.

Rod47 said:

Unless you trim cases to uniform length, you will have to live with this aggravation.

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Adding .022" (average thickness of case wall of .011" at case mouth) to the diameter of bullets for shortest resized case will return the flare back flat on the bullet and skosh more for longer resized cases.

Rod47 said:

Your variation in flare is due to varying case length and thickness. Set your expander flare for shortest casing. Unless you trim cases to uniform length, you will have to live with this aggravation.

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Yup that it. Any can longer than the shortest will look excessive.

Could be my eyes but your crimp looks good to me. My rule of thumb is if I can see a lighter/shiny colored ring around the brass its excessive crimp. I tighten the die down until I see the crimp then back it off till it disappears. It usually measures perfect at this point.

Walkalong said:

Agree with the others, flare is too much, loaded rounds look good.

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Just wondering, and for my info only; what are problems associated with "too much" flare other than decreased case life? I have never (nor have I heard of) split a case mouth during flaring.I have flared enough that the case mouth scrapes the ID of the seating die during bullet seating, but not in a lot of years and no other "problems" appeared. For a new reloader that is already overthinking case flaring, "minimal" flaring can be just adding to the confusion; "How much is too much and am I flaring enough?". I have been reloading for quite a while and I have a handle on case flaring and I have no problems associated with the process and all flare is removed before the handload goes into the box...

mdi said:

what are problems associated with "too much" flare?

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Depending on the expander used, you could open up the resized case neck too much and cause reduced neck tension that can lead to greater bullet setback.

And larger variance in "chambered OAL" and resulting bullet seating depth variance can affect chamber pressure consistency and accuracy, especially for small internal case volume 9mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/is-bullet-setback-ok.874184/page-2#post-11626072

A while back, I was setting up my flaring die (not a Lyman M die) and got a "huge" flare on a couple 9mm cases. Just for grins I seated bullets in them and they did scrape the ID of my seating die. They accepted the bullet with the same neck tension as a minimal flared case (push the bench test OK).

I'm not arguing or challenging the point as I have no trouble using minimal flare on any cartridge, I'm explaining my experience and since we are dealing with new reloaders perhaps I'm just exposing/showing both sided of case flaring; minimal vs use as much as you need. Quite often new reloaders will ask a simple, basic question on a forum, then get one or two basic answers then the thread drifts into advanced reloading techniques and reloading theory. In my experience dealing with apprentices (Automotive Electronics), K.I.S.S. is the best approach to any teaching/learning procedure. Personally I don't care what methods experienced reloaders use, as long as they are safe, I'm just thinking about adding confusion to a new reloader's problem...

I was going to post a question or two pertaining to flaring 9mm cases, I've practiced on a few to get my OAL set, However after removing the bullet it did seem to be a bit smaller where it was in the case, I did re-use it a few times too.. Was this due to too much crimp or being installed too many times? I'm not really having having a problem getting the bullet to feed straight after using a chamfer tool, even with out using it. I'm using an RCBS die set. I have it set currently to where you can just barely feel a flare. I haven't tried seating any bullets yet. Am I putting too much though into it as mentioned in this thread?

As walkalong posted above, you need to do the "plunk test" to set your oal. Your middle reload in your picture (post #1) looks too long, more often then not the shoulder of the swc bullets will be sticking +/- 1/16" above the case mouth.


If your getting 1 case that flares correctly and the next case looks like the 1 in post #1, that's not from the differences in case oal's (typical max oal case differences is +/- 20/1000th's). More likely then not it's from not pulling the handle on the press consistently or short stroking.

When I roll crimp (normally strait walled cases 38spl/44spl/etc) I seat and crimp the bullet in the same step. When I taper crimp (9mm/45acp) I seat the bullet in 1 stage and crimp in another stage.

Crimping is very subjective and everyone has their favorite spotted puppy. Myself I put a 2/1000th's to 3/1000th's crimp on all my 9mm & 45acp reloads. Doing this aids in feeding along with having consistent ignition/consistent short start pressure which leads to accuracy. Everyone talks about the differences in case thickness and case mfg's. Couple that with new or once fired brass vs work hardened brass that's been reloaded several times. The word neck tension keeps coming up in these threads. Just how consistent do you think the neck tension is with all the differences in cases, wall thicknesses, soft/hard brass, case oal's, etc????

The 9mm is a fantastic round that can be extremely accurate & IMHO most factory expanders fall short/are the weak link in reloading the 9mm's.

Most factory expanders are designed for the smaller in dimeter jacketed bullets (.355") and are typically short relying on huge amounts of case neck tension due to the massive differences in cases. A factory expander next to a custom expander that I mde for reloading 9mm's.


Even with jacketed bullets there's huge differences in the seating depths of the base of the bullet. A cut-a-way of different bullets and a lyman m-die expander.


The m-die has a "step" built into it that's long enough to to make up any differences in the length of the cases (oal's). My custom expander has the same step, the only difference is that I beveled the edge on mine. Using this type of expander takes the min/max case oal thing out of play giving the reloader a consistent expanded case no matter the oal or brand. NEO bullet mold company sells these types of custom expanders for little $$$. It would be worth your while to pick up 2 of them. 1 for jacketed bullets and another for larger in diameter plated/coated/cast bullets.

Good luck I'm sure you'll get everything dialed in