Remington dismantlement described

Mosin Bubba said:

I don't see lever actions as much of a volume or a potential growth market, but Ruger's instincts for the consumer market have usually been correct lately.

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Could be good or bad depending on what you like. Judging by part of the internet I see, people who are buying Marlins want more dinosaurs, M-Lok, big loop levers and short barrels, and less blue and walnut. I noticed Ruger discontinued their blued Hawkeyes and replaced them with an all-stainless model with a 20 MOA rail and a threaded barrel. Hmm.

Ruger meets marlin... PC carbine meets Camp 9. This is going to get interesting. A sad note though... a classic will die. Which one though? Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22. It makes no sense to compete head to head with yourself.

climbnjump said:

Well, I'm not sure that it has gone to a real estate investment group regardless of what the article said. That company is actually called, "Round Hill Capital, LLC", not "Roundhill Group, LLC"

I think the wrong company is currently being linked to in all of the articles that I've seen and we will find out in a day or two who the actual folks are who are behind Roundhill Group.

ETA:
I can find listings for two companies named "Roundhill Group, LLC" The first was formed in Nevada back in 2002 and has long since been declared inactive. The second was formed in Delaware in August of 2019. I'm guessing that it will be this second company that bid on the assets. I don't think that real estate company is at all involved with this.

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Well, maybe, but it took Remington several years to figure the Marlin lever guns out and to sort and document all of the incomplete engineering drawings (napkin sketches) and tribal knowledge (held by disgruntled union workers) into a manufacturable and viable product and convert from antique machines to CNC so I think there is value in that. You, or me or Ruger or in the recent past Remington did not find out what they did not know until they actually tried to build some of the damn things. You do not know, what you do not know, until you realize you do not know it. Ruger could use the IP to short cut to a working product with the history and street cred Marlin earned and that Henry tries to fake. And the Marlin name has value.

Mr. Ruger, please leave the Marlin alone, it is already mature and perfect, I do wish for a new 39A for less that $3,000! I also do like to hunt pig-asauruses so more Darks and dino guns is fine with me as long as the classics continue beside them. There is life beyond walnut and blued steel especially as the AR platform may soon take a sunset cruise. A lever action 336 in stainless and a carbon fiber stock with an 18 inch barrel in .350 Legend might be nice. The poly tip bullets will be fine in the magazine. We need a straight wall state legal lever gun cartridge other than a 44 Magnum or 45 Colt.

WestKentucky said:

Ruger meets marlin... PC carbine meets Camp 9. This is going to get interesting. A sad note though... a classic will die. Which one though? Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22. It makes no sense to compete head to head with yourself.

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both rifles have sold quite well in the past. No reason they can't continue to coexist and continue to sell well.

As an H&R fan, its purchase (trademark and IP) is of interest. They certainly can't make break action singles in the US for the price they would need to be. But I wonder if the Turks can? Maybe a return of H&R top break revolvers ?

Probably nothing.

DocRock said:

As an H&R fan, its purchase (trademark and IP) is of interest. They certainly can't make break action singles in the US for the price they would need to be. But I wonder if the Turks can? Maybe a return of H&R top break revolvers ?

Probably nothing.

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I thought CVA's were made in the US, or at least finished in the US. They seem to be better quality than many H&Rs even if they don't swap barrels.

So it may be possible. I, for one, love to see all brands come back, so I hope it's resurrected in some capacity.

The courts might decide Vista has enough of the ammo business already and direct that portion of the sale to Sig. There are numerous players in the ammo business, but Vista already has a pretty large market share without the addition of Remington.

Also note that the back-up for the Marlin business is the owner of Savage.

There as a note somewhere above that 700’s may be gone. Wonder if that has anything to do with the trigger debacle?

Be a shame to see the 870 go away.

mgmorden said:

I dunno. My first gun was an NEF (H&R) and I also own one of their .30-30 Handi-Rifles. They're good guns but over the years they kept creeping up in price, whilst companies kept figuring out how to make bolt actions cheaper and cheaper. I don't think there's a big market for break-action single-shot rifles when a bolt action repeater can be had for LESS money now. I mean if that could figure out how to make them and sell them profitably for $150 or so then maybe, but I just don't see that as happening.

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If they could figure out a way to make them with swappable barrels that didn't require fitting, like the TC Contenders and Encore's but do it at a "budget" price, I think there might be a market. IMO, the H&R/New England single shots were the best in their class.

WestKentucky said:

Ruger meets marlin... PC carbine meets Camp 9. This is going to get interesting. A sad note though... a classic will die. Which one though? Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22. It makes no sense to compete head to head with yourself.

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And yet GM does it all the time; and did it even moreso before they closed some brands. So does P&G, J&J and a lot of other retail brands

Sounds like pretty much all good news to me, get these companies out from under Remington's corpse and into the hands of a few shakers and movers. I'm especially interested to see what Ruger and Sierra do with Marlin and Barnes respectively. Also, A PSA ACR would be amazing...

Varminterror said:

I’m intrigued by the idea of a Ruger built Marlin 1894 with a threaded barrel. I’m disappointed to think that PSA/JJE and Franklin just expanded their production capacity, and don’t expect they’ll carry on the Bushmaster or DPMS names - and really interested to understand the opportunity for PSA/JJE with the H&R brand (surprisingly fractured from the Marlin business)...

Where did they expand their production capacity? They didn't purchase any property. The Huntsville property is owned by the city of Huntsville. It looks to me like they purchased the brand names and the IP,

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3Crows said:

Mr. Ruger, please leave the Marlin alone, it is already mature and perfect,

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There is no Mr. Ruger.

BBarn said:

The courts might decide Vista has enough of the ammo business already and direct that portion of the sale to Sig. There are numerous players in the ammo business, but Vista already has a pretty large market share without the addition of Remington.

Also note that the back-up for the Marlin business is the owner of Savage.

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I would hope the court makes that ruling. I don't like seeing one company owning three of the four major brands of ammo and primers.

Cannibul said:

I would hope the court makes that ruling. I don't like seeing one company owning three of the four major brands of ammo and primers.

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I don't think it will. I'm not a lawyer, but I think at this point, the hearing tomorrow is to simply finalize the bidders as they currently stand.

An interesting aside to this is that the sale of the non-Marlin firearm assets to Roundhill Group is dependent on Vista getting the ammo business. If the Vista deal is tossed, so is the Roundhill bid.

At this point, it is obvious that Roundhill Group, LLC is definitely NOT the real estate group that folks were originally thinking. This outfit is simply an "acquisition vehicle" for buyers who, at this point, want to remain anonymous. The name attached to Roundhill is one Scott Soura and the address for Roundhill is, 888 SE 3 Avenue, Suite 500, Fort Lauderdale, FL. As far as I can tell, that building is full of law firms and other business that have only addresses and no other operations.

Ruger taking over Marlin!!!!!

anyone who owns a Ruger revolver and a Marlin lever reads this and thinks it's fantastic news. I can't think of a better place for Marlin to end up. Kind of scratching my head over how anyone could think this would be anything but a step back in the right direction for Marlin

Marlin has bolts, levers, and semis. Considerable overlap of bolts and semis with the current Ruger offerings. Not so with the levers. Depends on what the new owner moves forward with. Many buyouts have produced results that left me scratching my head.

WestKentucky said:

Ruger meets marlin... PC carbine meets Camp 9. This is going to get interesting. A sad note though... a classic will die. Which one though? Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22. It makes no sense to compete head to head with yourself.

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But you are not "competing with yourself". Heads, you win, tails...you win.

It is fairly frequent within branded goods segments for a dominant market player to create an "anti brand" that exists for the sole purpose of capturing consumers who, for various reasons, like all the attributes of the dominant brand but do not want to be a dominant brand consumer. While the 10/22 - Model 60 dynamic is a different one, the idea of having two products with similar attributes under the same financial umbrella makes good sense. Volumes of each are such that economies of scale are in place. As we saw with the Savage A22, there is nothing to stop another manufacturer taking a run at one of these icons except brand recognition and market dominance. Give up either the 10/22 or the Model 60 and Ruger opens the door to someone else making a clone. And then it's a potential loss.

I think Ruger taking up Marlin is the best we could hope for.... I hope they don't start going cast crazy though... I'm not looking forward to a flimsy, ugly, tactical lever action with a Ruger touch.

Mosin Bubba said:

Ruger building Marlin lever guns. You have my attention.

Wonder how much Ruger is going to keep business-as-usual going there, and how much they're going to shake things up. I don't see lever actions as much of a volume or a potential growth market, but Ruger's instincts for the consumer market have usually been correct lately.

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1894 in 7.62x39 that takes Mini-30 magazines.

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Good riddance to Remington.

I once got fired for telling their CEO at the time, Tommy Milner, what I thought of the model 710. Remington management wasn’t interested in making a quality product, and they weren’t interested in critical feedback. Now they and the company they lead is dead and will soon be relegated to the dust bin of history.

They spent the last 20 years making mediocre products at above average prices for consumers who didn’t know any better and were buying the name. Too bad for them that the average consumer did in fact learn, and started to know better.

I feel sorry for all the hard working production employees at Remington who will be out of work, they didn’t choose to build garbage they were told to.

Otherwise bad companies that make garbage should die and go away. For some reason gun enthusiasts are the only consumers around who will lament a crappy gun company that made crappy products going under. Not to worry folks, if you like mediocrity and bad products to fiddle with and spend money on to make them function there are still many other shoddy gun companies to do business with!

BobABQ said:

I have a bad felling that the Remington 700 and 870 are dead. I suspect this real estate group only wants the factories. They can sell off the equipment and sell/lease the buildings.

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As I mentioned in a post above, the outfit named "Roundhill Group, LLC" is not the real estate company that was linked to in the news articles. Lazy journalists simply linked to the first company that came up in a google search with a related name.

I do not know what the final result will be a year or so down the road, but as part of their purchase agreement, Roundhill Group is required to offer jobs to 200 union workers in Ilion, NY within 75 days of the closing of the sale. They are also required to put up $2million for "capital improvements and modernization costs of the Ilion, New York facility..." That money could also be spent on salaries, wages and benefits for workers at that location. Perhaps after all of that, the facility may still be closed, employees laid off, and all remaining arms ground to dust. But I would bet not.

Coal Dragger said:

I once got fired for telling their CEO at the time, Tommy Milner, what I thought of the model 710

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I always tried to get people to spend the extra $50 for a Savage, rather than sell a 710.

The reputation was so bad places wouldn't take them in on trade.

Remington 710. Remington’s version of IBM’s ill-fated “PC Junior.” But I date myself.