Minneapolis church wants to buy back guns

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wiscoaster

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This Minneapolis church is planning to buy back guns, "no questions asked":

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020...shop-hosts-gun-buyback-amid-rising-homicides/

Aren't they going to risk being in violation of the law? What if the gun they're buying was used in a crime? What if the individual selling them the gun is a prohibited person? What if the person is not a US citizen or a resident of Minnesota? Wouldn't all those purchases be illegal firearms transfers?
 
Buy back? Were they the church's in the first place? Sorry, but I just hate that term.

I can see them breaking many laws. Not sure if you can do a FTF transfer there but that is pretty much what they are doing. Not to mention possibly messing with ongoing investigations, etc.

Wrong on many levels. I can see them wanting to do something but this is not a smart move for them.
 
My best guess... is that well meaning outfit already has links to local politicians and every weapon they buy has a DESTROY THIS destination, usually aided and abetted by their local cops. We were never involved in any gun buy backs in my city down here in south Florida -but from what I've heard locally the junk folks turn in for cash is usually the kind of junk iron you'd be afraid to load a cartridge into....

I have no quarrel with anyone trying to "do something" about street crime - but have zero confidence that what they're planning to do will have any effect at all on folks doing bad things with firearms...
 
I have no issues with it. It’s not the government....it’s not mandatory.....and second-amendment supporters are generally not the targeted audience. If it puts a small dent in guns in an “at-risk” environment, then good for them. Only downside I can see would be collectibles in the hands of unknowing widows and offspring.
 
I've always wondered very similar things. If it's No Questions Asked, what's to prevent an out-of-state resident from dumping a handgun that's been used in a homicide, confident that the buyer will destroy it?

That said, this is Legal, so let's put in a couple of statutes. First, federal law, and edited on the assumptions: (a) that the church does not hold an FFL; and (b) is only engaged in buying firearms, not selling them:
Congress said:
(a) It shall be unlawful--
(1) for any person--
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or....
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;....
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes; ....
(9) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, who does not reside in any State to receive any firearms unless such receipt is for lawful sporting purposes....
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person-- [is a prohibited person]....
(j) It shall be unlawful for any person to receive, possess, conceal, store, barter, sell, or dispose of any stolen firearm or stolen ammunition, or pledge or accept as security for a loan any stolen firearm or stolen ammunition, which is moving as, which is a part of, which constitutes, or which has been shipped or transported in, interstate or foreign commerce, either before or after it was stolen, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the firearm or ammunition was stolen.
(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce....

18 U.S.C.A. § 922 (West)
Click to expand...
So we can see that under federal law, there are some circumstances under which the church might violate federal law in conducting its buyback. For example, if it (or members acting on its behalf) knew or had reason to know that the seller was from out of state, purchasing a gun from the seller would violate section (a)(5). If the church knew or should have known that the gun was stolen or that it had a defaced serial number, buying the gun would violated sections (j) or (k), respectively.

I'm not licensed in MN, but I try to find time to do a little digging and to see what its law has to say on the matter.
 
wiscoaster said:
OK, thanks for doing that research. I guess the key word in the law is "knowingly" and if they're doing it "no questions asked" it's probably legal.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. Look up Minnesota Statute 624.7132. Unless they stick to rifles and shotguns only (which I think is unlikely), they'll definitely be breaking the law with this "buyback".
 
A number of off-topic post have disappeared. This is the Legal Forum, so we talk about what the law is. So if it turns out that anything resembling discussion of the legal issues is done, the thread will be closed.
 
I guess it all depends on who takes possession of the firearms at the "buy-back". I wonder of any of the church members are undergoing a NICS check.
 
jonnyc said:
I guess it all depends on who takes possession of the firearms at the "buy-back". I wonder of any of the church members are undergoing a NICS check.
Click to expand...
Unless Minnesota has a Universal Background Check (UBC) law like Virginia just put into effect, under which all firearm transfers require FFL and background check, there is no need for a NICS check at the church when buyer and seller are both MN state residents. Even if volunteer church members are acting as clerks (agents) of the church enterprise (a legal entity) to buy the guns from attendees they should not need a background check.
 
I always love it when some organization does a "gun buyback" and then a couple of guys with FFLs set up a table right next to them and tell people that they'll beat any offer the organization makes. Guess who takes most of the guns?
 
Gun "buy backs" are running a fencing operation for stolen guns. Steal a gun, sell it back (often to the police), get money, all at no risk.
 
bearcreek said:
How is it possible for it to be legal, given the statute I mentioned earlier? Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

If folks from the church just set up a table on the sidewalk without notice to the city and without police presence and with the intent to keep for themselves any "purchased" firearms, then not legal.

But that's not what is happening.

If instead they get approval from the local government (city) and are supervised by local law enforcement (Mpls Police Dept), who actually take possession of any firearms brought in, then it is "legal".

Folks are getting hung up on the fact that the church is the "face" of this thing and ignoring who is doing what behind the scenes. Also, similar events have been held in the city in years past, so there is history there.
 
As the sunset of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Ban approached, both the Centers for Disease Control and the National Research Council independently conducted reviews of empirical academic research into the effectiveness of the AWB and other gun control measures.

By empirical academic research (that means research that would pass the door at the American Society of Criminology for discussion, or eventually be published in a LAW JOURNAL under peer referee NOT the OP-ED BS used by advocacy groups or politicians, or the crap student editors allow to appear in Law Reviews working under the noses of their professors like John Donohue with his anti-gun agenda), BUY BACKS were found to have no measurable impact for controlling bad behavior by bad people by both the CDC and NRC reviews.

Buy Backs are Voodoo Criminology: purely symbolic gestures, like burning Beatles' White Albums after the Helter-Skelter murders by the Manson family.

The Minneapolis church wants to "buy back" guns, in an empty symbolic gesture, that does not impact bad behavior by bad people, but demonizes gun owners? Phaw!

I have a Noble Model 40 12ga shotgun that I bought for spare parts at a gun show for $8. It lacked a stock and cartridge lifter. I suspect it was salvaged for spare parts to fix another Model 40. Turned out the extractor was not compatible with my Noble Model 66, but I found it worked safely as a singleshot and the magazine could be used as a manual feed reserve. I added a handgrip, and used it as a test bed for BP blanks, rock salt, bird bombs, Red Meteor flares, dragon's breath. and other crap ammo I did not want to use in a good shotgun. I could get more than $8 for it in a typical Buy Back. I would Deep-Six it in a TVA lake before I would turn it in in a buyback. I will not participate in a fraud liuke a gun buy back, even for $200.
 
Last edited:
Frank Ettin said:
A number of off-topic post have disappeared. This is the Legal Forum, so we talk about what the law is. So if it turns out that anything resembling discussion of the legal issues is done, the thread will be closed.
Click to expand...
As it appears that anything resembling discussion of the legal issues is in fact done, closed.
 
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