Remington dismantlement described

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It looks like Ruger intends to continue the Marlin lines largely as they stand now:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/09/30/long-live-lever-gun-ruger/

I sure hope so, and that would be the smart move. Ruger's lever guns were a total flop, so acquiring Marlin was a smart way to profit from that market segment, which has been growing in recent years due to semi-auto legislation, and their suitability as suppressor hosts in a time when suppressor sales have been skyrocketing. There is nary a more enjoyable host than a Marlin 1894 .357 shooting subsonic .38s through a 9mm can!

I do hope Ruger opts to continue manufacturing Marlin lever actions with forged receivers, but investment cast wouldn't be the end of the world if it's done right, namely proper final machining to yield a finished product that is devoid of visible casting marks.

As for the haters who say "good riddance" to the Remington brand, I appeal to your sense of history. Remington has an illustrious history dating back further than any other firearms company in this country, and I actually can't think of another US company that has continued manufacturing it's original product for over two centuries. Seeing any such brand die would be terrible. I have no desire to own a current Colt product, but I don't want to see the name die! It's most unfortunate that the Remington name was so badly tarnished by Cerberus over the last 2 decades, but we should all hope that it lives on and eventually returns to it's former glory. I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 Remington firearms with manufacture dates spanning more than 100 years, many of them novel Pedersen designs that I wish were still produced today. It would truly be a shame to see the name fade away after all that it has brought to the world of firearms & ammunition.
 
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I’m with @mcb - the $13m bid is the give-away for me. Considering the physical assets they acquired, there can’t be any business valuation contribution to that total. I agree, it’s likely even a low number for the assets. Wikipedia has 2004 Remington (prior to several of their acquisitions) as a $950m revenue business and an NY Times article on the bankruptcy listed them as $800m revenue in 2015 with 191m profit. $13m doesn’t buy that business... I’d be quite certain it doesn’t even build the production lines...

I’d love to be wrong and think the Ilion requirement to employ 200 people isn’t a renovation crew, but rather a production crew to continue production... BUT... I’m also not sure how 200 people are expected to manufacture the volume formerly operated by 700-900 employees...
 
D'arcy only became CEO last June 2019. At the behest of the owning banks not the Board of Directors. Remington is privately held so there was no stock to grant. IIRC the bankruptcy paper work called the bonus a performances/merit bonus not a retention bonus. He said he was going to save the company and failed, why would you want to pay him a bonus to retain him unless he actual did what the banks wanted?
He may actually have saved Remington, just not in the way you think. Sometimes companies just need to be shut down. The brand name will live on. Maybe that was the best that was doable. You can't really expect him to make a pronouncement that he was there to preside over the dismantlement of the company.
 
The 13 million bid was for the assets and the assumption of certain liabilities, so the total purchase price most certainly exceeds 13 million. I have not seen the schedule of included liabilities but it may be a large number. I would be surprised if the NY plant and their UMWA employees are eventually the only production facility. I can not remember a purchase like this that our firm was involved with that did not seek to move to a more business friendly location. I mean no offense to United Mine Workers members, but that union is extremely difficult in it's dealings with companies.
 
The 13 million bid was for the assets and the assumption of certain liabilities, so the total purchase price most certainly exceeds 13 million. I have not seen the schedule of included liabilities but it may be a large number. I would be surprised if the NY plant and their UMWA employees are eventually the only production facility. I can not remember a purchase like this that our firm was involved with that did not seek to move to a more business friendly location. I mean no offense to United Mine Workers members, but that union is extremely difficult in it's dealings with companies.

We know there are $12M in back taxes, but there may be substantial other liabilities that won't disappear with chapter 11 as well.
 
From the release:

"Our intent with this acquisition is to return the company to its traditional place as an iconic American hunting brand...

...They are all life-long hunting advocates and staunch Remington brand loyalists."*

Hmm...

In fairness, even if we discount the PC aspect to a statement like that, it isn't like we're talking about Glock here; Remington's primary customer base from the beginning was hunters. Remington really hasn't made anything that wasn't designed for hunting and sport shooting from the early 20th century until very recently. Yes, rifles & shotguns were adapted for military and police use, and the 870 obviously serves the home defense role well, but contract manufactured military rifles & 1911s during WWII aside, the original design parameters and marketing for everything big green made from 1927 until they started making pistols again in 2010 was sportsman oriented. And there's nothing wrong with that. They just finally figured out a decade ago that the type of person buying new firearms had transitioned from the hunter & sport shooter to people interested in recreation and defense, so we saw the addition of firearms geared toward those things in the product line. And frankly, they did a pretty good job with that foray IMO. I have a 1911 R1 standard, an RM380, an RP9 and two RP45s, and I like them all very much.
 
In fairness, even if we discount the PC aspect to a statement like that, it isn't like we're talking about Glock here; Remington's primary customer base from the beginning was hunters. Remington really hasn't made anything that wasn't designed for hunting and sport shooting from the early 20th century until very recently. Yes, rifles & shotguns were adapted for military and police use, and the 870 obviously serves the home defense role well, but contract manufactured military rifles & 1911s during WWII aside, the original design parameters and marketing for everything big green made from 1927 until they started making pistols again in 2010 was sportsman oriented. And there's nothing wrong with that. They just finally figured out a decade ago that the type of person buying new firearms had transitioned from the hunter & sport shooter to people interested in recreation and defense, so we saw the addition of firearms geared toward those things in the product line. And frankly, they did a pretty good job with that foray IMO. I have a 1911 R1 standard, an RM380, an RP9 and two RP45s, and I like them all very much.

I agree, but the wording gives me pause. Yes, Remington responded to the market, yet this reads like the new owners think that was a mistake.

They might be right, Remington did fail, twice... ;)
 
Remington's RP9/RP45 were very much below the radar, possibly due to some early issues. The majority of feedback lately seems to be positive, though. One common remark that I've heard about the RP9 is that it seems overly large and bulky for a 9mm. But maybe Remington was going for a common frame for both 9mm and .45 platforms?
 
Remington's RP9/RP45 were very much below the radar, possibly due to some early issues. The majority of feedback lately seems to be positive, though. One common remark that I've heard about the RP9 is that it seems overly large and bulky for a 9mm. But maybe Remington was going for a common frame for both 9mm and .45 platforms?

I hope I don't come off as a jerk, but I greatly disagree with you. QC plagued them from the beginning and I have heard no good reports from any credible sources.

Behind the appeal to authority, handling them shows lackluster build quality and mediocre features. Shooting them instills no joy nor satisfaction.

The plastic fantastic market is so competitive, and the Rem's are mediocre at best.

If it were 2010, then maybe they'd be a good option at sub-$300.

But it today's market, it's like a school project that was started the night before.
 
Based on the Roundhill Group press release it appears that they are going to become a much smaller company centered on the hunting versions of the 700, 870 and the semi-auto shotguns. I suspect the pistols and tactical long guns will be axed.
 
I hope I don't come off as a jerk, but I greatly disagree with you. QC plagued them from the beginning and I have heard no good reports from any credible sources.

Behind the appeal to authority, handling them shows lackluster build quality and mediocre features. Shooting them instills no joy nor satisfaction.

The plastic fantastic market is so competitive, and the Rem's are mediocre at best.

If it were 2010, then maybe they'd be a good option at sub-$300.

But it today's market, it's like a school project that was started the night before.

I beg to differ with this assessment, both as an owner of 3 of them, and as a career machinist & licensed firearms manufacturer.

For one, the RP series was designed from inception as an economy handgun, and it does have a street price in the ~$300 range, so it should be evaluated accordingly. And in that category, it offers a heck of a lot of performance. Truly, the only flaw in them is the ambi safety, which works flawlessly from the right handed position, but which is marginal for a southpaw manipulating the passenger side lever. Other than that:

All 3 examples have run flawlessly for me with any ammo I've thrown at them unsuppressed.

Suppressed, the 9mm has also been flawless, which is more than we can say for a number of "premium" polymer 9mm pistols (one in particular that is very popular). The .45 model, of which I only modified one of the two I have, did require feed ramp modification for reliable suppressed operation. Considering that neither were offered with threaded barrels, nor were threaded barrels available, I'd say we can give a little latitude on the .45 versions issues with a custom modded stock barrel needing a little work on the back end.

Now, ergonomics are subjective, but I'd say the RPs hit a home run there. With the interchangeable backstraps (not often found on budget pistols), they can be made to nicely fit the palm of any hand in the normal small to XL size range. Beyond that, the overall contour is agreeable, and the controls located well.

Triggers are a bit mushy, typical of striker fired poly pistols. They are pretty average in this regard.

Sights are good, especially the night sights on those models.

Accuracy is average to slightly above average of pistols in this class.

Overall fit & finish is very good. There are no flashing lines or defects in the polymer, and the steel slide & barrel are free of tool marks or other roughness. The rest of the internals are cleanly manufactured and as tightly fitting as they ought to be. Again, random sample size of 3 here, so take that for what it's worth, but they were bought at different times spanning more than a year and a half, so.........

Some consider the 9mm grip a bit large, but it's the same frame as the .45. They hold 18+1 & 15+1 rounds respectively, so how small can we expect them to be? They're decidedly smaller than a gen 3 G20/21, and less blocky than a USP while holding more rounds than either.

The steel bodied magazines are well made, and pretty easy to load until you get to the last round. Mine have remained loaded to ~85-90% capacity at all times, as I do with most magazines in storage, and they function just fine on range days.

I'm all ears if you have anything substantive to offer in support of your scathing assessment, but I expect there's nothing more than what you have already opined rather vaguely and with the fallacy you noted yourself.
 
I agree, but the wording gives me pause. Yes, Remington responded to the market, yet this reads like the new owners think that was a mistake.

They might be right, Remington did fail, twice... ;)
I sure don't think of Remington when I think of AR-15 or handguns. I think Remington as a brand would be best off sticking with the things they're known for. Otherwise you confuse the customers even if it's a decent product.
 
I beg to differ with this assessment, both as an owner of 3 of them, and as a career machinist & licensed firearms manufacturer.

[Snip]

I'm all ears if you have anything substantive to offer in support of your scathing assessment, but I expect there's nothing more than what you have already opined rather vaguely and with the fallacy you noted yourself.

Honestly, I'm glad yours worked out well for you. I used to be a huge Remington fanboy, and I've always loved budget guns. When the RP series came out, I was very excited, then seriously let down. No, I have not revisited them in years, but why should I?

The point I made about 2010 and budget guns, shows how they are late to the market with their entry. I am judging them against their competitors, because I've owned all of them. Most are around the same price, better ergos, more parts available, better triggers, comparable capacity, and "feel" better made. These include Rugers, Caniks, Sarsilmaz, Stoeger, Taurus, SA XD series.

That's just off the top of my head. Again, I think Rem RP are mediocre at best. And mediocre is hard to be when the competition is better even at the price point.

Sorry I rubbed you the wrong way, but to bring it back to the thread and dismantling, Harley-Davidson has been mentioned as a comparison. HD is one of the companies I love to hate. They make neat stuff, but is far surpassed in technology, performance, and cost by almost every other manufacturer in almost every metric.

I consider Remington, and the RP pistol line, to be the Sportster of the gun world. You might like it, but I'm buying a better Yamaha instead.

I really hope that going forward, Remington makes a good comeback. I still have the Freedom Group, and what they did to Para Ordnance.
 
As far as Remington's budget/entry level guns, the Model 783 seems to be a decent seller (or was, I suppose). IIRC, it copied features from some other guns.
 
I wish the new Remington well in returning to their core competencies, and in providing a US support system for worthy imports. There are things they did and can do well, and other things that seem in retrospect ill conceived. Time will tell if the new owners' vision is on target.
 
In fairness, even if we discount the PC aspect to a statement like that, it isn't like we're talking about Glock here; Remington's primary customer base from the beginning was hunters. Remington really hasn't made anything that wasn't designed for hunting and sport shooting from the early 20th century until very recently. Yes, rifles & shotguns were adapted for military and police use, and the 870 obviously serves the home defense role well, but contract manufactured military rifles & 1911s during WWII aside, the original design parameters and marketing for everything big green made from 1927 until they started making pistols again in 2010 was sportsman oriented. And there's nothing wrong with that. They just finally figured out a decade ago that the type of person buying new firearms had transitioned from the hunter & sport shooter to people interested in recreation and defense, so we saw the addition of firearms geared toward those things in the product line. And frankly, they did a pretty good job with that foray IMO. I have a 1911 R1 standard, an RM380, an RP9 and two RP45s, and I like them all very much.

Just a note. Remington didn't build any 1911 pistols during WW II

Remington Rand, a typewriter company did. No association with Remington Arms.
 
I think it is fair to say that Remington hasn’t been a front runner in military, LE, or defensive firearms, but I think it’s also unfair to claim they came from some chaste origin which had only been redevised in recent years to include defensive or offensive arms...

Sure seems the Remington New Army/Navy/1851 revolvers weren’t exactly marketed as sporting arms, nor the Derringers made as early as the 1860’s and for half a century thereafter. The Rolling Block rifles were a military arm as well. Remington built various “war-time” firearms during The Great War, for multiple countries, and of course, the Pederson device doesn’t strike me as a hunting rifle adaptation. The M40 bolt action sniper rifle - a military designation for the 700 action - is half a century old itself, and the 870 has delivered considerable service history, also stemming back to at least as early as Vietnam... without even discussing any ammunition manufacturing contracts...

No, Remington isn’t in the same realm as FN, Glock, HK, Colt, etc as a high volume battle or assault rifle manufacturer, but when wars were being fought and bad guys being chased, Remington was building arms to be used for the job, throughout their history.
 
Ruger meets marlin... PC carbine meets Camp 9. This is going to get interesting. A sad note though... a classic will die. Which one though? Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22. It makes no sense to compete head to head with yourself.

Well, if the if the cost difference of manufacture is negligible, then Ruger would be happy to provided the product, I'm sure. Some people really like tubes and will pay to load them, after all. Ruger will weigh and measure the market and decide.........
 
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