.45 Long Colt 'Indoor' loads?

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Captain*kirk

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Hey all, I'm just dipping a toe in the waters of conversion cylinders. I'll be loading 2F behind a 250gr bullet for my normal BP rounds, but also want to have some smokeless rounds for indoor use over the long Chicago winters. BP indoors is prohibited, as would be anything that smokes or smells like it, I'd imagine. Trail Boss would be the obvious sub choice, but as you probably already know, is 'unobtainium' right now. I'm loading some very watered down .44-40 smokeless loads for my '66 Winchester using Unique, but the charge barely covers the bottom of the case. Anyone here have any pet loads for .45LC that use a reduced charge (under 800fps) suitable for cowboy loads with a heavy bullet? Thanks in advance.
 
Hey all, I'm just dipping a toe in the waters of conversion cylinders. I'll be loading 2F behind a 250gr bullet for my normal BP rounds, but also want to have some smokeless rounds for indoor use over the long Chicago winters. BP indoors is prohibited, as would be anything that smokes or smells like it, I'd imagine. Trail Boss would be the obvious sub choice, but as you probably already know, is 'unobtainium' right now. I'm loading some very watered down .44-40 smokeless loads for my '66 Winchester using Unique, but the charge barely covers the bottom of the case. Anyone here have any pet loads for .45LC that use a reduced charge (under 800fps) suitable for cowboy loads with a heavy bullet? Thanks in advance.

I use 5.5g Trail Boss behind a 200g RNFP coated bullet for my indoor shooting. It works well.

Retreever
 
Lots of powders work. Pretty much anything that the cowboy action shooters are using will be fine, though I'd be careful about going much below book values. Trail Boss is best simply because it makes it hard to blow yourself up, whereas everything else requires vigilance to avoid double, triple, ??? charging.

I like Unique, myself. Seven grains makes for a light load that never squibs. The CAS guys will go much lower - even below five grains - but that sort of thing worries me.
 
I like Unique, myself. Seven grains makes for a light load that never squibs. The CAS guys will go much lower - even below five grains - but that sort of thing worries me.
My normal .44-40 charge is around 7 grains Unique, IIRC. I would have no problem using it in .45LC I wouldn't go as light as 5 grains...I'm not looking for a reduced load, just one that stays under the max.
 
Problem is that 45C case is too darn big for most smokeless loads. Carried muzzle down and all the powder is against the bullet, level the gun and it’s laying along the bottom. Using a heavier roll crimp helps and if possible pointing the gun sky wards and cocking single action helps also. Regardless your going to see unburned powder in many loads. I’ve used Titegroup and Unique with success. Trailboss has been available mail order. I received two 9oz bottles from Graf and Sons a few weeks ago.
 
Problem is that 45C case is too darn big for most smokeless loads. Carried muzzle down and all the powder is against the bullet, level the gun and it’s laying along the bottom. Using a heavier roll crimp helps and if possible pointing the gun sky wards and cocking single action helps also. Regardless your going to see unburned powder in many loads. I’ve used Titegroup and Unique with success. Trailboss has been available mail order. I received two 9oz bottles from Graf and Sons a few weeks ago.
Yes, I've read about wild velocity swings due to that. Trail Boss is by far the best choice. I may have to just keep watching for it to come back in stock.
 
I load a lot of reduced cast bullet loads in surplus rifles. RedDot And Bullseye are my first choice because they are not position sensitive. I push 150 gr cast bullets with 6-7 grains of Bullseye and 8-9 grains of RedDot in a 7.62x54R case. I think 2-3 grains Bullseye would be a good place to start and work up. For RedDot you could use your Unique load if it is already a light load. Unique works fine with mouse loads if you tip your barrel up after you chamber the rounds to get the powder next to the primer.
 
Trail Boss is by far the best choice. I may have to just keep watching for it to come back in stock.

Some smaller gun shops pick up from regional distributors weekly, or after they have accumulated enough items for a minimum $ order or to make it worthwhile.
If a person were to let the shop know what they need, that may alert them to get it in stock.
 
Hey all, I'm just dipping a toe in the waters of conversion cylinders. I'll be loading 2F behind a 250gr bullet for my normal BP rounds, but also want to have some smokeless rounds for indoor use over the long Chicago winters. BP indoors is prohibited, as would be anything that smokes or smells like it, I'd imagine. Trail Boss would be the obvious sub choice, but as you probably already know, is 'unobtainium' right now. I'm loading some very watered down .44-40 smokeless loads for my '66 Winchester using Unique, but the charge barely covers the bottom of the case. Anyone here have any pet loads for .45LC that use a reduced charge (under 800fps) suitable for cowboy loads with a heavy bullet? Thanks in advance.
I need to get my copy of “Sixguns” down and see what Elmer had to say about the subject. I recall a story about a shopkeeper he knew who used to fire squib loads at his floors and the bullet would stop about halfway through the floor planks... different time for certain.
 
The “excess case capacity” issue leads to a lot of hand wringing. I don’t sweat it but I am diligent about confirming powder charges. When I was loading everything on a single stage press I used a loading block and a light to visually confirm powder level. I mostly load pistol ammo on a progressive press now; I have a light inside the press for a visual check and back it up with an RCBS Lockout Die.

If a bulky smokeless powder is desired, Trail Boss is best. Second choice would be a midrange powder like Unique or Universal. It does not bother me to use a fast burning powder for light loads in .45 Colt and .44 Special; Red Dot has worked well for me.
 
Try these https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-cowboy-special
Not sure if indoor loads are you shooting on a range or in your basement?
If in your basement: Push a primed (magnum primer) into a block of wax. Shoot the wax projectile across the room into a cardboard box with old carpet in it. If indoor range above brass will allow smaller powder charge to be used more efficiently.

Good luck

Jerry
 
I like Red Dot a lot for what you want to do, if you have any or can get it. Admittedly I use Unique more often for .45C and that will certainly work, but with lighter loads the RD seems to do it a little better with less smoke and soot. Powder position in the case doesn't seem to make a difference recoil-wise (didn't chronograph it though).
 
Just a trivia example. I load a 200 grain SWC in 45ACP. Hand casting figured I could double down and use the same bullet in the 45Colt. Never could get that bullet to work well in the 45C. No crimp groove as it was designed for a cartridge that head spaces on the mouth. I finial deduced the primer was unseating the bullet before the powder full ignited.
 
Trail Boss would be the obvious sub choice, but as you probably already know, is 'unobtainium' right now.

Howdy

Trailboss is not a Black Powder Substitute. This is a common misconception.

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Trailboss, as the name implies, was developed for the Cowboy Action Shooting crowd. Because a lot of the public believes all CAS shooters shoot Black Powder, a great many think Trailboss is a BP Sub. Many (but certainly not all) CAS competitors load down their 45 Colt cartridges so that they recoil like a mild 38 Special. This is so they can fire their pistols very, very rapidly without recoil upsetting their aim. When you put 1/2 grain of Whiz Bang into the cavernous 45 Colt case it usually does not work very well. Inconsistent ignition is common. So Hodgdon came up with Trailboss. The fluffy, donut shaped grains take up more space than most other powders. Here is a photo showing Trailboss grains on the left and Unique grains on the right. The idea was using Trailboss one could load fairly light loads into large capacity cases and cut down on the amount of empty air space in the cartridge. This is in turn would cut down on inconsistent ignition .

pndjviV2j.jpg




Regarding getting consistent velocity with fairly light loads, you are probably correct that Trailboss is a good choice because it eats up so much of the empty air space in the huge 45 Colt cartridge.

One thing you might try is using 45 Schofield brass instead of 45 Colt brass. Less powder capacity than 45 Colt, so light charges can be more consistent than similar charges in 45 Colt. You don't mention what type of conversion cylinder you are using.

I have the R&D six shot 45 Colt conversion cylinders for my Remmies. I usually shoot 45 Schofield cases in them with a 200 grain bullet to cut down on powder capacity and to be less punishing to the Remington frame.

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When originally made, the counterbores in the R&D cylinder could not accommodate the larger diameter rims of 45 Schofield (.520 in diameter vs .512 for 45 Colt.) I had a gunsmith open up the counerbores so the Schofield rounds would seat. I'm pretty sure this cylinder now comes with counterbores big enough for both 45 Colt and 45 Schofield these days.

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I only load 45 Schofield with Black Powder, but there is data for loading it with Smokeless on the powder company websites.

If you go to the Alliant reloader's guide there is data for Schofield with American Select, Bullseye, and Unique using a 230 grain bullet.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx


Hodgdon has more reloading data for 45 Schofield, with loads for 200, 230, and 250 grains with 231, Clays, HP-38, Titegroup, Trailboss, and Universal.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/


I buy my Schofield brass in bulk direct from Starline, but you can buy a package of 100 cases from Midway USA.

This is a photo of all the cartridges I load with Black Powder. Left to right they are 44 Russian, 45 Schofield, 38-40, 44-40, 45 Colt and 45-70. This should give you a good idea of how much more case capacity there is in the 45 Colt case than in the 45 Schofield case, which makes the Schofield case a good candidate for efficient loads with light loads of Smokeless powder.

poQkmpp3j.jpg




For what it's worth, my standard Smokeless load for 45 Colt is 7.5 grains of Unique under a hard cast Smokeless 250 grain bullet. My reloading notebook. says that velocity out of a 7 1/2" 'original model' Vaquero was 781fps to 828 fps, with an average of 801fps.


Also, you might consider using a lighter bullet than 250 grains. You don't mention it, but I suspect you might be looking for slightly reduced recoil. If so, reducing your bullet weight from 250 grains to 200 will have a very significant effect on reducing recoil. Even going to a 230 grain bullet will significantly reduce recoil. You must, of course, adjust the powder charge for the lighter bullet. Believe it or not, generally if you use a lighter bullet, the powder charge usually goes up a little bit from what you were using for a heavier bullet.

What ever you do, DO NOT USE A FILLER WITH ANY TYPE OF SMOKELESS POWDER.
 
I need to get my copy of “Sixguns” down and see what Elmer had to say about the subject. I recall a story about a shopkeeper he knew who used to fire squib loads at his floors and the bullet would stop about halfway through the floor planks... different time for certain.

I remember that. In his autobiography - IIRC - he went into a bit more detail. I believe it was a barber shop and the proprietor an old retired gunfighter. Keith wrote of shooting at the patterns in the linoleum, and that the base of the slug would sit flush with the floor. I honestly don't remember anything about the load - I'm not sure he even mentioned the details. I do remember the part where a peace officer came around to investigate and the shop owner said "Go away. I am teaching this boy how to shoot." Yeah, different times.
 
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Trail Boss is a good powder to work with I load 32-20 cases, 30-30 113 Lee soup cans, 45colt and 45ACP. It's easy to work up your own load you just mark your case where the bottom of the bullet will be seated. Fill the case with Trailboss to the mark that is your max load. Your starting load is 70% of your max load. The only rules are you should not compress it, and cast bullets only in pistols. It is pricey you only get 9 oz in a one-pound bottle. It is so fluffy all you need is a dipper to charge cases.
 
I remember that. In his autobiography - IIRC - we went into a bit more detail. I believe it was a barber shop and the proprietor an old retired gunfighter. Keith wrote of shooting at the patterns in the linoleum, and that the base of the slug would sit flush with the floor. I honestly don't remember anything about the load - I'm not sure he even mentioned the details. I do remember the part where a peace officer came around to investigate and the shop owner said "Go away. I am teaching this boy how to shoot." Yeah, different times.
yep, that’s the story. From “Hell, I was there!”

I’m old enough to remember a time when doing that would barely have raised an eyebrow. My dad once took a call from our closest neighbor, Mrs. Van Essen. She’d spotted me out riding with a holstered revolver. Pop told her it was none of her business what I was doing. Then he told me to give their home a wide berth in the future. (I doubt I’d been closer than a half mile away, but all of us kids knew she kept a pair of binoculars and watched anyone who came near the place.) He also let me know that he thought she was not well, with some sort of nervous condition... I miss the old man, I was fortunate to have the parents I did.
 
Howdy
Trailboss is not a Black Powder Substitute. This is a common misconception.

My bad. Wrong terminology. I am aware TB is smokeless powder.

One thing you might try is using 45 Schofield brass instead of 45 Colt brass. Less powder capacity than 45 Colt, so light charges can be more consistent than similar charges in 45 Colt. You don't mention what type of conversion cylinder you are using.

Already purchased my cases and bullets...

For what it's worth, my standard Smokeless load for 45 Colt is 7.5 grains of Unique under a hard cast Smokeless 250 grain bullet. My reloading notebook. says that velocity out of a 7 1/2" 'original model' Vaquero was 781fps to 828 fps, with an average of 801fps.

Pretty much what I'm shooting for (pun intended)

Also, you might consider using a lighter bullet than 250 grains. You don't mention it, but I suspect you might be looking for slightly reduced recoil.

Not really. I'm used to shooting .44 mag handloads with Unique and 249 grain bullets

What ever you do, DO NOT USE A FILLER WITH ANY TYPE OF SMOKELESS POWDER.

I'm aware of that, but thanks for the reminder! I've been reloading smokeless for 20+ years now.
 
The conversion cylinders will be on an ASM Walker (Howell) and a Pietta 1858 Remington 'Sheriff'. (Taylor's). I'm not afraid of stiff loads as I regularly shoot my .44 mag handloads out of a Super Blackhawk.
 
I know you say you can handle heavy recoil, but for indoor range use why waste powder, for indoor use and just cheap plinking I load with 454 round ball over lower end of Bullseye loading, easy as 38 Special out of my ROA's and cheap shooting and best of all; very accurate and easy to shoot large amount at one session.
 
I know you say you can handle heavy recoil, but for indoor range use why waste powder, for indoor use and just cheap plinking I load with 454 round ball over lower end of Bullseye loading, easy as 38 Special out of my ROA's and cheap shooting and best of all; very accurate and easy to shoot large amount at one session.
I do the round ball “gallery load” over black, never occurred to me to use a fast burner like bullseye. How many grains. ?
 
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