THINK .38 SPECIAL (NOT .357)

TTv2 said:

As far as QC issues go concerning revolvers, my faith in Taurus is growing. When I see they've built a facility in Georgia, have admitted they've had issues with customer service and will improve it, I feel a company as big as they are can put their money where their mouth is whereas a small, family owned company like Charter cannot.

I could mention other companies, but I mention Taurus by name because the cost of their revolvers is not far from that of Charter, but the quality feels superior and the intent even more so.

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I'd stay skeptical on Taurus. They've gone through CEOs like socks over the years, and every one of them does the same song and dance: admit that product quality and customer service have been lacking while promising sweeping change under their new leadership. Then everything stays about the same.

Buckeye,

We will have to agree to disagree on those triggers that you like so much. My J-frames came out of the box smoother and the last two Undercover's that I shot had really gritty triggers. I recommended that they go straight to a gunsmith for a trigger job, but the owner does not want to change anything on them.

Jim

golden said:

Buckeye,

We will have to agree to disagree on those triggers that you like so much. My J-frames came out of the box smoother and the last two Undercover's that I shot had really gritty triggers. I recommended that they go straight to a gunsmith for a trigger job, but the owner does not want to change anything on them.

Jim

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Last Undercover I purchased was a Goldfinger. (4yrs ago ) which had a good trigger ( good) .. much better than my out of the box 642 .. which was laughed at at a LGS .... but its a luck of the draw alot of the time
I don’t doubt your experience one bit ... I can see that ..
So we agree ;-)

oh I didn't realize this was a picture thread.
This guy will swallow the hottest .38 Special and I love the way it shoots. Colt sure did know how to put em together.

I think the .38 special is a great cartridge. I just loaded up a few hundred for range use in my S&W 637 and Ruger GP-100. I'm not particularly hung up on 'magnum-ness' though I have another Ruger revolver in .44 mag. The GP-100 is one of my favorite guns and having the option to shoot .357 mags in it just makes it better. That said, I don't hesitate to carry the 637 for personal defense when I want something light in the summer or to use as a kit gun when I'm doing other stuff outdoors.

I have a soft spot for a 38 revolver.
M-14
M-15
M-36
Charter arms
Rock Island 206

I shoot a lot of 38 special ammo. A little +P, a very few 38-44, and quite a bit of 357 but 38 by about 10:1. I like my 15, 442, and 638 as well as an old previous owner abused pencil barrel M&P.
lots of swc cast, hbwc, and gas check 358156 in the warmer loads. My 19 gets mostly +P 38 and the 686, Blackhawk and Security Six get the magnums they are designed for.
38s are great for relaxed practice as well as a round for compact SD pocket guns.
dad and I used to sell four or five thousand a month when we had our ammo business and that necessitated a lot of "quality testing".
I have a Charter Undercover but until I find a decent set of grips, my old hand and it don't agree.

I started off with a model 19 with 6" barrel with the 3 Ts. Target stocks, target hammer, target trigger. I bought one box of Federal 38 WC loads at my uncles suggestion. They were shot up in about 10 minutes. I borrowed the dies from my uncle, I bought a Rockchucker press and all the stuff for a basic reloading kit. My local range sold their own brand of cast bullets in SWC and WC for $15 per 500 bullets. In no time I was cranking out my own 38 special loads using either Bullseye or Unique powder. I would go shooting 2-3 times a week.

Sometimes I would shoot at the range instead of out in the country and would make a brass run. Back in the early 80s lots of people shot 38s and just threw the brass on the ground to be picked up by me. Some of the shooters even put the brass back in the box and set the boxes in the trash. Those were my favorite finds. I thought then and still think now the 38 is about the best round a person can own. Its easy to shoot and will give about all the power needed for about any SD situation a civilian shooter will ever need. Is it the best? No probably not but its sure close to whatever the best is. At least in a revolver.

I just built a new work bench so I could store my reloading components on the shelf for better access than where they were stored before. I had sort of forgotten how much 38 Special stuff I have on hand. And the thousands of pieces of 38 brass and the tubs of lead bullets I have cast up. I can shoot a long time before I have to do another casting run. Gotta love the 38 special.

I love the 38 Special.

when i am feeling young and sexy i shoot 357 ammo. when i am feeling old and over the hill, i shoot my 38 spec. ammo.

M&P, Buffalo Bore, speedloaders, speed strips, I'm ready.

Just picked up an old stainless Taurus 85 2" today. It'll keep my model 10 company and they can share range duty until I get a holster that will fit the 85. Never really thought I liked short revolvers until I picked this one up.

I recently bought some .38 Special +P 125 jhp DOUBLETAP ammo. They spec it at 1175 fps out of a 4 inch GP-100. I will go to the range and try this hot .38 Special load in my .357 magnums and compare it with my usual carry load, REMINGTON 110 grain .357 magnum sjhp. It should be interesting.

Jim

Sistema1927 said:

I think that one of the reasons for the .357 magnum was the fact that ammo for the .38 Special was lacking when the magnum came on the scene. The .357 gave additional velocity that made the rounds of the day work better. However, with developments in bullet design, the .38 Special is much better now than it has ever been.

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Yep, I'd agree with that quote...in my use, I find I spend most of my time shooting ~160 grain LSWC's of the old Lyman GC design. Without the GC, a light load of Bullseye gives the standard .38 Special velocity loading...~850 fps...and does it with superb accuracy in every .38 Spl or .357 Magnum revolver I've tried.

I'm down to a single .38 Special these days...a target sighted Smith model 36 with a 3" bbl. With wadcutters and a target level powder load, it'll do right at an inch from the ten yard line, slow fire. Boosted up a tenth of a grain or two of Bullseye, and you get muzzle velocities up over 900 fps...a pretty useful defensive load I think you'll agree.

Too, in my .357's...Smith's and Rugers all...38 Special loads do as well as or better than .357's downloaded to Special velocities. And I don't really mind scrubbing out the gunk left by the shorter case in that longer charge hole as S&W terms it. I clean up my guns after each outing, using a .45 bronze brush on the chambers and a Copper Chore Boy for any residual leading in the forcing cone area.

The quote above hit's it right on the mark, IMHO. With good, modern "boutique" SD bullets, you get great expansion in a compact revolver, with enough weight in the slug for better penetration and all in an easily understood weapon with minimal manual of arms complications. A revolver, in other words.

YMMv, HTH's Rod

Interesting, how fine we find "older" cartridges.
Since latter part of summer, I have been working on downsizing my flock of pistols and revolvers - hoping to retire and relocate to more compact digs. Counting fingers and toes, had a handgun for each - think I have distilled the bunch down to around 3.
A T/C Encore with custom 8" barrel in 45 colt - had this since encore frames were introduced - keep it in a bag in my vehicle. Worked ap a broad range of loads for it, my favorite being 270 SAA bullet at 1000 fps.
An FA-83 in 41 mag - for hunting - 250 gr at approx 1200 fps.
Finally a S&W M10. Finding, as time goes on - I shoot this more and more. Even have retired a 22 mag revolver in favor of the M10. Like 140 gr TCFP with 6 gr Silhouette, yields about 930 fps, shoots to M10 sights. Softer muzzle bark than 22mag, more effective too. Plus getting to be less expensive, 22 mags now cost about a quarter each - the 38 SPL load is less than 20 cents. Keep on hand a supply of a thousand or so bullets and primers, pound of powder - so I can make loads when needed. On line and LGS often have not had 22 mags in stock. To quote another poster here (sorry I forgot your name) ........" An M10 is all the gun you need and none you don't.........." Sorry if I recalled that out of context.

Yes. If you handload the 38 can take the place of a 22 or 22 mag or a 32 caliber gun. And if you watch what you are doing can be loaded a little faster than +P loads in the right guns. A good all around cartridge for most users. If its the only handgun you own you are well armed.

I always load 158 grain bullets when loading .38 Special. When I started reloading I just loaded to match the original specs of 158 grain bulletin at 850 FPS. That’s what I shot for my Cowboy Action loads. Later when I started loading FMJ, Soft point and hollow point bullets I always stayed with 158 grain bullets.
Not so much with factory loads especially in SD ammo, but my reloads were always 158 grain.
Recently I went to the range and decided to shoot up some Remington UNC 130 grain FMJ and some PMC 132 grain FMJ just for kicks. The UMC is spec’d at 800 FPS and the PMC at around 900 FPS.
Boy, was I surprised at how accurate both of these loads were in my model 19 and my model 10 S&W revolvers.
I went to the reloading store yesterday and bought some 125 grain RNFP Poly coated lead bullets. I have some experiments to do with these babies.
After over 20 years of reloading and having fun shooting .38 Specials I have found a new fun thing to do with them.

I recently chronographed some .38 out of my 4" Charter Arms with a purple blued frame that I call "Purple Pain" and with factory 158gr LRN from Magtech and Federal I was getting about 750 fps. IMO, that's crap for ballistics. I then shot some handloads of mine, 125gr Berry's with 5grains of Bullseye and the velocities were averaging around 975.

Point is I could have added another .5 grains of powder and upped the velocity to something like 1125 fps, well beyond any .38+P load, but in a .357 it would have been more than safe to shoot.

The only use I have for a .38 is in an ultralight alloy frame snub.

TTv2 said:

I recently chronographed some .38 out of my 4" Charter Arms with a purple blued frame that I call "Purple Pain" and with factory 158gr LRN from Magtech and Federal I was getting about 750 fps. IMO, that's crap for ballistics. I then shot some handloads of mine, 125gr Berry's with 5grains of Bullseye and the velocities were averaging around 975.

Point is I could have added another .5 grains of powder and upped the velocity to something like 1125 fps, well beyond any .38+P load, but in a .357 it would have been more than safe to shoot.

The only use I have for a .38 is in an ultralight alloy frame snub.

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Point is - if you want/need a .357 Mag, go get you a .357 Mag.

I have a bunch of .38 Special revolvers, and love 'em all.

My all-time favorite revolver for fun is a .38 stainless Rossi 851 3". I know it's no classic, but it's given me and others many enjoyable hours of shooting joy. Just adore that puppy.

tubeshooter said:

Point is - if you want/need a .357 Mag, go get you a .357 Mag.

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That's not what the OP said. He basically said that you'll rarely ever shoot .357 from a .357 and it's a waste of money to buy a .357 you'll mostly be shooting .38 in.

And I'm saying you're almost always better served with a .357 in something not a snub.

UncleEd said:

It seems to me that a lot of buyers shun
revolvers that aren't magnum, particularly
speaking of S&W's K frames.

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This is exactly what the OP is talking about. People looking past the duty-sized .38 Special in favor of a .357 Magnum.

Nobody is arguing the versatility of .357 Magnum compared to .38.

It is not an apples-to-apples comparison to hold it against a .38 Special for maybe not being the best candidate to hot-rod up to 1125 fps. 357 operates at twice the pressure. I would not hold it against a Corolla or Civic for not being the best candidate to push to 150 mph. It was never designed to do that.

Everything is not always a matter of more horsepower. Sometimes, for some people, "less is more". Maybe with respect to follow-up shots, cost, or other considerations. Witness the .44 Special fans who like .44 Special guns, when they could just get a 44 Mag and be "better served" by your logic.


So this is why I say - if you need a .357, go get a .357 and don't be mad that you can't turn a .38 into one. Same deal with 9mm and .380 ACP. I stand by my stance.

In that case it just reverts back to personal preference and this entire topic means nothing.

mcb said:

I agree OP.

I am a 357 Magnum hater.

If I had a quarter for every-time I have read on a gun forum that, "I have a 357 Mag J-frame that I only shoot 38 Special +P in." I could buy one of those mean little 340 PD's and throw it in a river.

My CCW revolver is a S&W 442 and my woods carry revolver is a S&W Model 10 heavy barrel. That old Model 10 currently is getting carried more than all my other handguns combined (revolver and semi-auto) If I need more omph than 38 Special I step up to a revolver who's caliber starts with a 4. I hunted deer for several years with a S&W 610 and now am using a M29.

I do own two 357 Mag revolvers. My Ruger Blackhawk convertible has more 9mm through it than 357 Mag, but mostly gathers dust in the back of the gun cabinet. My S&W 627 is my gamer-gun and gets fed a steady diet of hot loaded 38 Short Colt. It has had less than a box of 357 Mag fired in it since I bought it.

The worst thing I ever did to my ears was shoot my 357 Mag revolver without hearing protection. I am not saying it's a good idea but I can shoot my 38 Special revolver without ear-pro and not be left with my ears ringing the rest of the day after the experience. I can even shoot my 10mm Revolver without ear-pro and its more pleasant than shooting a 357 Mag without ear-pro.

IMHO the 357 Mag is a Jack-of-all-Trades and thus Master-of-None. For anything I would use a revolver for I have a better choice than 357 Mag.

YMMV, and yes I have my asbestos underwear on for the flaming I am likely going to get for the above post.

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"Master of none"??
Isn't it the undisputed master of one-shot-stops?

I mean, I realize there's alot of variety a seasoned reloader can do with a 357 case...but as far I'm concerned the only drawbacks to 357 are noise and capacity. If something like a Coonan was actually as reliable as...say...a Glock, with as much firepower...well...I'd be ALL over that if I could afford it. Then I'd just carry 357 and 38sp all day every day and anything else would just be a side-order.