Thoughts on people who claim "Only people who are formally trained should be able to own a firearm"?

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I am required to have a permit to worship. I need a license in order to write and publish. I need permission from my government in order to speak in public. Etc etc.

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The perversion of some is to believe that the second amendment is about self defense. I aver that self defense was understood and did not need to be in the Constitution. Instead the Constitution guaranteed the means by which self defense could be ensured.
The constitution did no such thing. The 2nd Amendment was about the militia and the means by which the states could raise and field militias separately from the whims of the federal congress. For example, militias were frequently used as slave patrols in the South. Were it not for the 2nd Amendment, Congress could have simply refused training, funding and arms to the southern states and nullify their ability to round-up runaways. But because of the 2nd, states could raise their own militias and the federal government could not prohibit those militias from bearing arms as a part of their service.
Aymette v. State (of TN) was very clear on the point that the idea of bearing arms does not refer to civilian firearms ownership and use.

"We think there is a manifest distinction. In the nature of things, if they were not allowed to bear arms openly, they could not bear them in their defence of the State at all. To bear arms in defence of the State is to employ them in war, as arms are usually employed by civilized nations. The arms, consisting of swords, [161] muskets, rifles, etc., must necessarily be borne openly; so that a prohibition to bear them openly would be a denial of the right altogether. And, as in their constitution the right to bear arms in defence of themselves is coupled with the right to bear them in defence of the State, we must understand the expressions as meaning the same thing, and as relating to public, and not private, to the common, and not the individual, defence.

But a prohibition to wear a spear concealed in a cane would in no degree circumscribe the right to bear arms in defence of the State; for this weapon could in no degree contribute to its defence, and would be worse than useless in an army. And, if as is above suggested, the wearing arms in defence of the citizens is taken to mean the common defence, the same observations apply.

To make this view of the case still more clear, we may remark that the phrase, "bear arms," is used in the Kentucky constitution as well as in our own, and implies, as has already been suggested, their military use. The 28th section of our bill of rights provides "that no citizen of this State shall be compelled to bear arms provided he will pay an equivalent, to be ascertained by law." Here we know that the phrase has a military sense, and no other; and we must infer that it is used in the same sense in the 26th section, which secures to the citizen the right to bear arms. A man in the pursuit of deer, elk, and buffaloes might carry his rifle every day for forty years, and yet it would never be said of him that he had borne arms; much less could it be said that a private citizen bears arms because he had a dirk or pistol concealed under his clothes, or a spear in a cane."

Aymette v. State, 21 Tenn. 152, 159 (Tenn. 1840)



The right to own weapons is and was always protected by the state constitutions. Of course, the Heller and McDonald decisions changed that, so the entire decision in the Aymette case is basically moot at this point. Oddly enough, Heller referenced Ayemtte v. State, but apparently ignored that last bit.
 
NONE of what you just said in this post or the one before it has ANYTHING to do with the topic. The topic is about government-enforced mandatory training requirements prior to OWNERSHIP. Not carry, not militias, not kinds of weapons, or anything else. If you already stated your position as not in favor of training to own, why are you bothering to argue about training for CCW? Frankly, most of us are aligned with both of your stated positions! Once again, thanks for the distraction.
Heaven forbid we actually discuss related thing in this General Gun Discussions forum.
 
Well, I thought so as well, but was waiting for someone to catch up.

Apparently we've been infiltrated by socialists.

By the way, thanks (and kudos) for being the first to remind everyone that freedom is indeed messy at times.
Funny, I tend to think the fascists are running amok these days.
 
See, you're trying to move goalposts. You took issue with what you think I said, but when it was pointed out more than once, that I didn't actually claim to want a training requirement for ownership, you tried to shift gears and talk about the original topic.
Seriously? I initially took issue with your stated preference for training in order to carry concealed, but when you quoted a post of mine while indicating your confusion about what I said, I attempted to clarify what the OP stated. I could care less about specific cases of stupidity involving firearms that display the fact that there are far too many idiots who own or carry guns without understanding how and when they may be used.
Law is about forbidding things that do not mesh with the moral code of society. It is absolutely about bad behavior. Law specifically prohibits the bad things and punishes those who step outside the law.
And making laws requiring otherwise law-abiding citizens to obtain training to exercise a natural right meshes with those concepts how?
The 2nd Amendment was about the militia and the means by which the states could raise and field militias separately from the whims of the federal congress.
I think we're done here.
 
Heaven forbid we actually discuss related thing in this General Gun Discussions forum.

If you want to opine on Heller and Miller maybe you should start your own thread in the legal forum.

We have already been warned about this thread getting off topic and now it seems like you are bent on driving it in that direction.

it would be great if you could say something substantive about training requirements prior to ownership instead of wasting bandwidth and everyone else’s time. Thanks.
 
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