Disappointed in .357mag loads

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C Younger

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I was finally able to get out and do some load testing to see if I could find my carbines favorite. The results were disappointing to say the least. These are my five shot results at 50 yrds. All using Starline brass and a tree limb as a rest. CCI 500’s were used in everything except the H110 loads where I used 550’s. Rifle was a Rossi R92 with 20” barrel and buckhorn sights.

12gr Alliant 2400, 125gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 3.75”V X 2”H.

10gr Alliant 2400, 158gr cast Rim Rock FP-TC, 1.60” COL. 6”V X 3.5”H.

12gr Alliant 2400, 158gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 3.25”V X 2.5”H

18gr H110, 125gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 5”V X 2”H

20gr H110, 125gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 3.5”V X 3”H

14gr H110, 158gr Speer TMJ FN, 1.59” COL. 8.5”V X 1.75”H.

15gr H110, 158gr Speer TMJ FN, 1.59” COL. 2.25”V X 3.25”H

Any suggestions for improvements would be greatly appreciated. For the cast loads I’m going to try a faster powder at more like 38spl velocity.
 
I’ll give the heavier loads a try. The first ammo I ever put through this carbine was 38spl 158gr FMJ RN factory Remington and it did awesome, so I know the gun is capable.
 
Try the increased velocities Peels suggested with those bullets, it just may find the sweet spot that you’re searching for.

The rest you used wasn’t the sturdiest I’ve seen, It’s kind of tough to get a good picture of a loads accuracy potential without a solid rest. Do you have access to a sturdy table and bags for front and rear support? It may help you get some more respectable groups and narrow down the loads to those that work well for you.

Good luck with your search, I have a 16” Rossi .357 and like shooting it when I can. Mine seems to like a 158 gr coated SWC over 6.5 gr Unique. Not a fire breather, but a fun plinker.

Stay safe.
 
How you doin with the buckhorn sights?
Usually I shoot pretty good with buckhorn sights. I was blessed with better than 20/20 vision so as long as the front post comes close to filling in the notch, I can keep things pretty consistent.
 
What kind of accuracy can one expect from a Rossi 92 in 38/357? I’m thinking they typically do better than this in 38/357.

I’m shopping for one now, and I’d like to know what to expect, along with info for OP comparison.

I’ve got a Chiappa M92 in 45 Colt, 20” takedown, that’s every bit as accurate as Winchester M94’s in 30-30.
Five shot groups at 100 yards with iron sights hover between 2 and 3 inches.
 
What kind of accuracy can one expect from a Rossi 92 in 38/357? I’m thinking they typically do better than this in 38/357.

I’m shopping for one now, and I’d like to know what to expect, along with info for OP comparison.

I’ve got a Chiappa M92 in 45 Colt, 20” takedown, that’s every bit as accurate as Winchester M94’s in 30-30.
Five shot groups at 100 yards with iron sights hover between 2 and 3 inches.

I’m sure the rifle can do much better than I did today. I’ve shot some pretty tight groups using factory .38 specials.
 
I’m sure the rifle can do much better than I did today. I’ve shot some pretty tight groups using factory .38 specials.

Good to hear, and I understand now why you are focusing on load development. For 38/357 rifle load development, I have no experience.
 
Good to hear, and I understand now why you are focusing on load development. For 38/357 rifle load development, I have no experience.
Just keep in mind that a lot of people describe Rossi rifles as “almost finished” for a reason. Both of mine I’ve had to clean up the innards to help them run a little better. The .357 had a sharp piece of steel at the entrance to the magazine tube that would cut the nose of a soft point so deeply that I couldn’t get the round into the tube. Solid gun though, so far.
 
I haven't shot 357 mag in a rifle. But I have found in a revolver that 4227 yields slightly lower velocity with outstanding accuracy. Magnum primers for a cleaner burn and compressed charges. YMMV
 
I haven't shot 357 mag in a rifle. But I have found in a revolver that 4227 yields slightly lower velocity with outstanding accuracy. Magnum primers for a cleaner burn and compressed charges. YMMV
I may have to give some 4227 a try. Last time I saw some on the shelf I passed and have been kicking myself ever since.
 
Just keep in mind that a lot of people describe Rossi rifles as “almost finished” for a reason. Both of mine I’ve had to clean up the innards to help them run a little better. The .357 had a sharp piece of steel at the entrance to the magazine tube that would cut the nose of a soft point so deeply that I couldn’t get the round into the tube. Solid gun though, so far.

Similar experience with my chiappa. Although to be fair, my chiappa m92 shot and cycled 180 and 200 gr RNFP just fine out of the box. But I shoot as light as 180gr RNFP up to 335gr LBT flat nose and everything in between for 45 Colt. It took a bit of internal receiver work, filing, honing, etc to get all loads to cycle butter smooth.
 
Usually I shoot pretty good with buckhorn sights. I was blessed with better than 20/20 vision so as long as the front post comes close to filling in the notch, I can keep things pretty consistent.

Okeedokee. I noticed you seem to have vertical numbers mostly higher than horizontal.... Lot of folks have vertical issues with buckhorn sights
 
Okeedokee. I noticed you seem to have vertical numbers mostly higher than horizontal.... Lot of folks have vertical issues with buckhorn sights

I can see how that could be an issue with buckhorn sights. I’m guessing my vertical stringing had more to do with not getting my stock in the same position on the limb each time, causing the barrel to jump differently. I really should have used a more stable rest.
 
Uhm, what's the twist on that barrel? the 158gr may need a little more velocity?
What is the length of pull of your rifle? too short maybe? I had to extend the LOP on my 92 1" and that helped a lot.
 
A chronograph is a useful tool for diagnosing accuracy issues. If your velocities are all over the board your bullets will be all over the target.

Once a load is dialed in my chronograph pretty much just sits on the shelf... so you can decide if one is worth the money or not.

P.S. Matching a handload velocity to a good performing factory velocity is a good starting point.
 
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Uhm, what's the twist on that barrel? the 158gr may need a little more velocity?
What is the length of pull of your rifle? too short maybe? I had to extend the LOP on my 92 1" and that helped a lot.
I can’t remember the twist rate, though seems pretty slow 1 in 30 something. I’ll add a slip on butt pad and see if that helps as far as LOP.
 
A chronograph is a usefull tool for diagnosing accuracy issues. If your velocities are all over the board your bullets will be all over the target.

Once a load is dialed in my chronograph pretty much just sits on the shelf... so you can deside if one is worth the money or not.
A tool I definitely need.
 
2 observations;

First, I would concentrate on the heavier bullets from the carbine. 158 grain and heavier - 180 gr is easily found, and a very good 357 carbine weight. Even 200gr is not out of line.

Second, when I was testing H110 in 357 mag, the closer I got to max charge, the more accurate the results.
I could easily see it on the target.

Where the chrono comes in: at some point, adding more powder doesn't add velocity. Particularly with H110 you will reach a wall. More flash and bang but no added velocity or accuracy. That's the point to go back to the prior load.
 
2 observations;

First, I would concentrate on the heavier bullets from the carbine. 158 grain and heavier - 180 gr is easily found, and a very good 357 carbine weight. Even 200gr is not out of line.

Second, when I was testing H110 in 357 mag, the closer I got to max charge, the more accurate the results.
I could easily see it on the target.

Where the chrono comes in: at some point, adding more powder doesn't add velocity. Particularly with H110 you will reach a wall. More flash and bang but no added velocity or accuracy. That's the point to go back to the prior load.

I’ll try working up my H110 loads; see if I can get closer to 16gr.
 
Your 2400 loads are on the lighter side. I find better accuracy with 2400 near the higher end of the charge range. I recommend work up towards the higher end of the charge range and see what happens.
Agreed
 
Your results kind of mirror my experience with my Henry. Same setup, 20” barrel with buckhorn sights. It did much better with 38 special too until I tried IMR 4227. My groups closed up nicely with 4227 loads. It particularly likes 125 and 140 grain XTPs.
 
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