Disappointed in .357mag loads

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Ru4real said:
What kind of accuracy can one expect from a Rossi 92 in 38/357? I’m thinking they typically do better than this in 38/357.
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They do....at least mine does. The ammo may be the problem, as may be the shooter themselves. Having as sled or solid rest and proper shooting technique is important when testing for accuracy with a rifle.
 
Does your rifle have standard Ballard rifling or does it have microgroove. What twist rate are we looking at. I would run a range of bullet weights to see what gives you a better result. After bullet weight is resolved then work on Optimum charge weight, then fine-tuned with seating depth
 
you'll probably tighten up your groups, as you shoot more and are working on tighter groups as well. hey, if I was shooting less than 2" groups at 50 yards with ammo I loaded myself, I'd want tighter groups too, but I'd also be thrilled to be at a really good jumping off point. reality is if you can shoot 2" at 50, you can shoot 4" at 100, and well - you can for sure take a deer with that accuracy, and/or hit milk jugs or steel plates ... I'd load some more of your most accurate loads, and see if you can tighten up the groups, just with your shooting technique and go from there.
 
Project355 said:
Okeedokee. I noticed you seem to have vertical numbers mostly higher than horizontal.... Lot of folks have vertical issues with buckhorn sights
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MEHavey said:
We have met the enemy...
;):cool:
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I think these two posts tell the whole story.

While it is theoretically possible that the powder charges are erratic enough to cause so much vertical stringing, well, Occam's Razor. In my opinion the OP isn't really going to learn the truth about his rifle until he has a bench and a scope. Otherwise he really is only learning the truth about the entire system, including the tree branch.
 
I no longer have a Rossi R92 in .357 but I have a Henry Big Boy Steel in .357. I use the 158 gr. Hornady XTPJHP over 14.5 grains of 2400 and it is very accurate at 50 yds. I use a Skinner rear peep sight instead of the Buckhorn sight.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I agree that I need to correct the tree limb rifle rest situation. I’ve used a tree limb before with better success, but any negative effects can be magnified by using hotter loads. I don’t believe the buckhorn sights are an issue especially at only 50 yds. I’m definitely not mounting a scope on this style lever gun. Would it help? probably, but part of the fun, for me, is using the more primitive sights.
I’ll try pushing them a little faster and see if that fixes anything. Some of my results should give me a good starting point.
 
you are getting consistent two inch groups at fifty yards (disregard the vertical numbers). i don't think it's the rifle or the ammo. as some have said, the tree and buckhorn sights are the clue here.

luck,

murf
 
My 24" Rossi likes 158 grain cast bullets with 13.5 to 14.0 grains of 2400 in 357 Mag. I use a rear peep with a fiber optic front sight and do well with it despite my visual challenges. That said, I shoot a lot more 38 out of it than I ever did 357. In 38 special it likes a 158 grain cast and plated bullets with 4.0 grains of HP38 and shoots like a laser with a home cast 133 grain bullet over a 4.4 grain charge of HP38.
 
I would load to use 158 or heavier in 357 loads in a rifle
Secondly, I would use a benchrest with bags (and a scope if possible) just to take all of the human error out of the equation - or as much as possible
Were those dimensions the group size or the location on your target relative to the bullseye you were shooting at?
 
George P said:
I would load to use 158 or heavier in 357 loads in a rifle
Secondly, I would use a benchrest with bags (and a scope if possible) just to take all of the human error out of the equation - or as much as possible
Were those dimensions the group size or the location on your target relative to the bullseye you were shooting at?
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Those were the group size. I usually don’t zero my sights until I get consistent, tight groups, so location on the paper doesn’t matter too much to me at this point.
 
I don't have a .357 rifle, only revolvers. I'll just post these figures of my favorites FWIW.

125 grn JHP - 13 grns Blue Dot = 1400 fps.
158 grn Nosler JHP - 15 grns 2400 or 12 grns Blue Dot = 1280 fps.
160 grn swc - 15 grns of 2400 = 1420 fps. Used in pistol matches.
160 grn swc - 13.5 grns 2400 = 1150 to 1200 fps depending on barrel length.

All of these were target accurate equaling 148 grn wc loads. The first two loads were used in "N" and "L" frame S&W revolvers for deer hunting.
The third load only used in "N" frame S&W revolvers only.
The fourth load is for use in "K" frame S&W revolvers.
 
No need for a scope.....
1894-Marlin-38-Special-Lym-2sm.jpg

This combo will be good for ¼-MOA sighting error.

As to tree branch (which means the stock is hanging in the wind) that's more error.
...and not having a firm/consistent grip on forearm w/ full-up 357 light carbine/recoil is another.

Try it: Aperture/Bench/Forearm Control and let us know.....
 
I’ll try the suggestions. I’ve caught the crud over the last 24 hours, so it may be a week or so before I can make it back out.
 
C Younger said:
I was finally able to get out and do some load testing to see if I could find my carbines favorite. The results were disappointing to say the least. These are my five shot results at 50 yrds. All using Starline brass and a tree limb as a rest. CCI 500’s were used in everything except the H110 loads where I used 550’s. Rifle was a Rossi R92 with 20” barrel and buckhorn sights.

12gr Alliant 2400, 125gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 3.75”V X 2”H.

10gr Alliant 2400, 158gr cast Rim Rock FP-TC, 1.60” COL. 6”V X 3.5”H.

12gr Alliant 2400, 158gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 3.25”V X 2.5”H

18gr H110, 125gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 5”V X 2”H

20gr H110, 125gr Hornady XTP, 1.59” COL. 3.5”V X 3”H

14gr H110, 158gr Speer TMJ FN, 1.59” COL. 8.5”V X 1.75”H.

15gr H110, 158gr Speer TMJ FN, 1.59” COL. 2.25”V X 3.25”H

Any suggestions for improvements would be greatly appreciated. For the cast loads I’m going to try a faster powder at more like 38spl velocity.
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The best thing you can do is upgrade your sights. I was getting 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards until I switched to a peep sight with a modified front sight.
Now it is easily a 1.5 inch gun.
Try some 180 grain loads in it. Mine shines with a 180 cast and 13 grains of h110.
 
Bfh_auto said:
The best thing you can do is upgrade your sights. I was getting 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards until I switched to a peep sight with a modified front sight.
Now it is easily a 1.5 inch gun.
Try some 180 grain loads in it. Mine shines with a 180 cast and 13 grains of h110.
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I put a Skinner peep on my Marlin 1895 and it looks great. I’ll see if I can find something that I like the looks of on the Rossi.
 
C Younger said:
I put a Skinner peep on my Marlin 1895 and it looks great. I’ll see if I can find something that I like the looks of on the Rossi.
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You can get a peep that replaces the safety. I got a Williams foolproof and drilled and tapped the receiver.
The last option is a Skinner sight that is mounted on place of the factory sights.
 
also, for any sight you wind up with, your cheek weld on the stock needs to be the same every time you mount the weapon. the whole mount needs to be the same (stock/shoulder fit, elbow position, support hand position) but the cheek weld is the most important, imo. a wandering cheek weld explains your rather large vertical.

peep sights will not fix a wandering cheek weld.

luck,

murf
 
1. First loads ought to focus on 158gr pills. Most .357mags seem to like those. They MAY like others, but 158gr is the best first bet.

2. The closer to max I got to max load for 2400, the better the loads shot with 158gr pills. (Same phenomenon with .44mag & 240gr pills). Find out where to stop with your guns & components by looking at results on paper and pressure signs.

3. 2-3 sand bags and a prone firing position with good form or off a bench (with good form) is critical to evaluate a load, especially when the sights are sub-optimal.

4. The Rossis can shot just fine. My wife's .44mag 92 clone a a shooter. It was first owned by a SASS shooter who slicked it up. Cold not ask for a beter pistol-caliber lever gun.

5. Have not yet sprung for a peep for it, but it could use it to good effect, I am betting.
 
bluetopper said:
You're shooting 357 Mag out of a rifle, you need to reload like it. Load them at the max end and your results will dramatically change.
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Remarkably, my Rossi Stainless/20" model 92, shoots most everything I feed it with amazing accuracy, from reduced load 125 grainers that my grand-daughters shoot to legitimate 158 gr deer hunting loads.
 
As others have mentioned H110 likes to be at max load (16.7g according to my book for Hornady XTP 158g). They are very accurate for me that way. Accurate #9 works well as well.
 
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