1860 R-M Conversion

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Does that conversion allow you to switch back to percussion operation ?

Howdy

I will answer that. Before the Colt Single Action Army came out in 1873, Colt came up with four conversions for their existing Cap & Ball revolvers. These were more or less permanent conversions, they were not meant to be converted back to C&B. The engineers at Colt actually came up with more than four, but there were only four that were sold commercially.

First, their was the Thuer Conversion, which used a strange reverse tapered cartridge and chamber, to get around the S&W controlled Rollin White patent on revolvers with chambers bored through to accept cartridges.

Next was the Richards Conversion. This is a Richards Conversion. The original 1860 Army frame and barrel were used. The cylinder was cut at the rear, removing the nipples, and a conversion ring was mounted to the frame to take up the space where the nipples had been on the cylinder. The loading lever was removed and an ejector mechanism was mounted in its place.

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Notice the loading gate is on the right side, in the same location as the SAA, taking the place of the recess where caps were placed on the nipples of the earlier C&B revolver.

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The Richards Mason Conversion the OP has was a simplified version of the Richards Conversion, with a simpler ejector mechanism, as well as some other modifications.



The Open Top was actually designed from the ground up as a cartridge revolver, it was not really a conversion at all.


As such, unlike some of the modern Conversions that can be done to C&B revolvers, none of these conversions was meant to be returned to its original C&B configuration.

The replica Richards Mason the OP has, is not meant to be converted back to C&B, and frankly there is no C&B cylinder that would fit it.
 
...This apparently is .38, not .45.??? It doesn't have an 1860 stepped cylinder...

Correct, it is a replica and not bound by any requirements to be authentic. The originals were never chambered in 45 Anything. Starting with the Richards conversion, they were chambered for the 44 Colt which used a .452 diameter heeled bullet set into a case with the same OD as the bullet. All of the Colts revolvers cut for the 44 Colt cartridge used the same heeled bullet. It wasn’t until the Army trials that anything changed. Colt’s submitted an updated Open Top. It was returned to them with the request to add a top strap and chamber it for a 45 caliber cartridge. Thank he revolver was redesigned to what is known as the Model P and the cartridge used the same diameter bullet but in a larger case that covered the grease grooves.

Kevin
 
Where did this come from? What is "TSS"?

This apparently is .38, not .45.??? It doesn't have an 1860 stepped cylinder.
TSS Warehouse. Tooele Shooting Supply near Salt Lake, Carry lots of Cimarrons/Ubertis and modern guns. Not right now, though.
Can get it in 38 and 45lc when available.
 
The absence of a lanyard ring and its later adoption -a good example of learning from experience. The Trapdoor Springfield and Krag Carbine's had saddle rings, the M1888 Trap Door had the excellent Buffington rear sight, the rear sights on the M1892 and M1896 Krags did not, they corrected that on the M1903. The Rod Bayonet M1888 was adopted because the supply of socket bayonets that could be swaged down was running out. Ordnance decisions are often decided by budgetary restraints rather than effectiveness.
 
So I took it to the range just today. Disappointed. Shoots straight but there's an issue with the cylinder and/or hammer not wanting to rotate to the next chamber but ONLY after firing. Loads fine, cylinder spins freely, locks up fine with a smooth trigger, however after the very first round the hammer did not want to come back along with the cylinder not wanting to rotate. Had to jimmy and wiggle the cylinder, sometimes forcefully to get to the next chamber.
Rotates fine when unfired with live ammo or completely fired with the spent casings inside. Seemed the spent casing under the hammer was causing the issue but don't know how. Thought maybe the wedge was too tight but there was still a tiny bit of play front and back of the cylinder and you can see light. Maybe the firing pin is hanging in the spent primer but I should be able to pull back the hammer before the cylinder starts to spin. Perhaps its internal and the hand/pawl/hammer interface is hanging up but it doesn't happen dry firing with snap caps or spent shells. Only after firing live ammo.
Any ideas before dealing with Uberti? Don't want to break it down and start smithing things and voiding the warranty.
 
Ubertis are known for having a too-short base pin. This allows the barrel to squinch back at the top too much when the wedge is driven in, and it can bind stuff up. You can look up instructions on the internet for "tuning the Uberti" and see it better than I can explain it here. A quick test can be done by coming up with some washers or something that add up to the proper thickness that you can put in the hole in the barrel to fill the space in front of the base pin so when the wedge draws up, it bottoms out the base pin, draws tight on the front of the base pin, and doesn't squeeze the barrel in. If you can get the base pin space properly taken up with your temporary washers, and that solves the problem, then you know that's it. If the problem is still there, then obviously, it's something else. ;)
 
Ubertis are known for having a too-short base pin. This allows the barrel to squinch back at the top too much when the wedge is driven in, and it can bind stuff up. You can look up instructions on the internet for "tuning the Uberti" and see it better than I can explain it here. A quick test can be done by coming up with some washers or something that add up to the proper thickness that you can put in the hole in the barrel to fill the space in front of the base pin so when the wedge draws up, it bottoms out the base pin, draws tight on the front of the base pin, and doesn't squeeze the barrel in. If you can get the base pin space properly taken up with your temporary washers, and that solves the problem, then you know that's it. If the problem is still there, then obviously, it's something else. ;)
I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. The problem obviously is tied to a fired cartridge only and the pressure causes the back of the cylinder to press the spent cartridge against the top of the frame. It appeared that way when looking down at the space between the cylinder and frame. The fired casing looked pressed back where the others were clear of the frame.
I do have some tiny washers. That would be a simple fix. If so, thanks a bunch! It will take a little time to run the test but will certainly give it a shot and report back.
 
Howdy

Check to see if your primers are high after being fired.

When a cartridge fires, the primer is pushed back out of the case by the back pressure through the flash hole.

Normally, recoil reseats the primer as the round slams back against the recoil shield.

With light loads sometimes the recoil is not strong enough to reseat the primer.

A high primer could be causing what you are talking about.
 
Howdy

Check to see if your primers are high after being fired.

When a cartridge fires, the primer is pushed back out of the case by the back pressure through the flash hole.

Normally, recoil reseats the primer as the round slams back against the recoil shield.

With light loads sometimes the recoil is not strong enough to reseat the primer.

A high primer could be causing what you are talking about.

I did not save the empties and yes, I thought about that too and now that you mention it I was shooting Freedom brand which I have never had any issues with on my western guns, however I had a couple of other cartridges mixed in that I noticed had stronger pressure levels and if I remember correctly the cylinder rotated without issue after those few cartridges...So, I will try another brand of 38s before I blame the gun. If it takes special shells because it needs stronger recoil pressures, so be it. Thanks for reminding me to check ammo first, then the gun. I've just never had a problem with Freedom brand but there's always a first time.
 
CORRECTION and update: I was NOT using Freedom Munitions in the 1860 RM Conversion. I was using Freedom in my 9mm and they worked beautifully. I was using Miwall Reloads in the 1860 that I bought at a gun show and they do run light. So I will try some quality shells before any more consternations and aggravations. Thanks again for the help.
 
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