Rifle for predator hunting

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Waterboy3313

Waterboy3313

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I'm getting old and I've never actually been hunting. Some friends from work are into hunting pretty serious and they have been talking about predator hunting. They talk about shooting foxes, bob cats, coyotes.

I was told if I got my hunting license they would be happy to let me go with them. So now my dilemma is what riffle should I be using. I was told they usually shoot out to about 75 yards at night. One guy usually uses a 22-250 and one guy usually has a shot gun for anything that wanders in close.

I normally punch paper and ring gongs so I'm not set up for dropping live animals. On top of that I live in California so no lead will be used. I have several AR rifles in .223/5.56. and a 7.62X39 rifle. One guy told me he has seen a lot of these animals get away after being hit with a 223 round.

I've been thinking about buying a 308 bolt action rifle but with the scamdemic I don't know if I will be able to actually find something. That leaves me three options. I can shoot .223 out of an AR platform, use my Russian SKS in 7.62X39 which I would rather not, or build/buy another AR upper in something better than 5.56.

Copper bullets are a must and I do reload for everything I shoot other than 7.62X39. Any good recommendations are greatly appreciated.
 
An accurate .223 AR is a fine choice for predator hunting. There's a reason that those, like me, who disdain the 223 cartridge call it "the poodle shooter". I use a 222 Remington in the role from time to time and most modern fast twist AR's will accommodate bullets heavier than 52 grs. My understanding is that there are plenty of monometal bullets these days that will properly expand available in 223. The bigger focus (bad pun), if these chaps are night hunting, should be optics.

If you aren't confident in 223, a 6.5 Grendel upper should ensure absolute confidence.
 
If you aren't confident in 223, a 6.5 Grendel upper should ensure absolute confidence.
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Yes they are night hunting and I do have my questions about that as well. I was looking at some 6.5 Grendel uppers today wondering if something like that would be worth buying. Then of course all of the reloading supplies and dies to go along with it.

I do have a scope that has illuminated cross hairs. It's a cheapo scope but I was thinking that might have it's uses for this situation. Or use one of my vortex red dot scopes.
 
There is nothing wrong with your 223 Remington for that purpose. If you aren't concerned about the size of the hole in the hide, use an expanding varmint bullet. If you are concerned about the size of the hole in the hide, just take your shot from a different angle; a shot into the center of the chest from the front will probably kill quickly without the bullet exiting. There is no need to get a different rifle but if you want one the 22-250 Remington and 308 Winchester are very good.

Most of the varmints I've shot haven't gone far but a coyote I shot in the heart or pretty close to with a 204 Ruger ran about 300 yards before it realized it was dead so strange stuff does happen. I was definitely not under gunned with the 204 Ruger.

As for your scope, if you go for an illuminated reticle, be sure it's easily adjustable. If the reticle is too bright, you won't see much besides the reticle.
 
5.56/.223 is more than enough. I was just having a dude conversation with friends about people taking moose with it. Wouldn't recommend, but it's still a rifle round.

If going bolt, a Ruger Ranch in 7.62x39 would be cool, but copper bullets really eliminates that cartridge.

If you want a different AR upper, I recommend 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 spc, 300 BLK, 5.56, really anything. Especially if it's just 75 yards.

Actually, SIG HT rounds would be really good for 300 BLK if for some reason your buddies think you need something more than 5.56
 
My original thoughts on this was that would like to use my 357 mag with fiber optic sights. I normally shoot out to 150-160 yards with that pistol. One of the guys acted like I was out of my mind so I decided if I do go I will spare the embarrassment and show up with a riffle. I normally prefer to shoot my pistols.

I am not a hunter like I mentioned so the whole solid copper bullet idea to me is a little different. I have some Hornady Hornady V max bullets that I'm sure would get the job done but copper bullets are something I just don't have the experience with.
 
There is nothing wrong with your 223 Remington for that purpose. If you aren't concerned about the size of the hole in the hide, use an expanding varmint bullet. If you are concerned about the size of the hole in the hide, just take your shot from a different angle; a shot into the center of the chest from the front will probably kill quickly without the bullet exiting. There is no need to get a different rifle but if you want one the 22-250 Remington and 308 Winchester are very good.
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I'm not concerned with the size of the hole at all. I really don't care about anything other than the target hits the ground after it's been hit.
 
How are you hunting? And what's your terrain?

We primarily call in coyotes, so we use 16" AR15s in .223 with LPVOs (1-6X, 3-9 etc.), sometimes combined with a shotgun, for the ones that run in. Most of our shots calling are well under 100 yds, 200yds is an exception. Due to the terrain and vegetation it's often hard to see them farther out.

I've taken one of my precision rigs a couple of times and just ended up back with the AR15. We generally hike quite a bit setting up multiple stands.
 
I would suggest .243, readily available at big box stores, light recoil, high velocity, and can pack quite a bit more punch than .223 with 55-105 grain loads. If you find you like hunting, .243 works great on whitetail with 100 gr bullets, and with proper shot placement can easily take hogs.
There are also a wide variety of affordable rifles in .243, the ruger american and Savage offerings being my preference.

But since you mentioned your limited options, I would stick with .223 and make sure I hit the vitals. You could build an upper in .243 but I have no experience with anything but .308, 5.56, and 9mm ar's so I can't suggest any brands.
 
How are you hunting? And what's your terrain?
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Mostly private land that has probably been burned 3 times in the last 5 years. It actually is a good mix of everything. Some areas are open and flat some are hilly pretty good vegetation. If we go to the one guys house it's flat and wide open. The terrain around here is pretty well a good mix of everything.

I've never actually been with these guys but sometimes they sit in one place and take take multiple foxes and coyotes. They uses an electronic call wait for a bit if nothing comes they have multiple places on a lot of acreage where picking up and moving a mile or two is easily done. Like I said I've never been and this is going to be a learning experience if I get my stuff together and go.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
Mostly private land that has probably been burned 3 times in the last 5 years. It actually is a good mix of everything. Some areas are open and flat some are hilly pretty good vegetation. If we go to the one guys house it's flat and wide open. The terrain around here is pretty well a good mix of everything.

I've never actually been with these guys but sometimes they sit in one place and take take multiple foxes and coyotes. They uses an electronic call wait for a bit if nothing comes they have multiple places on a lot of acreage where picking up and moving a mile or two is easily done. Like I said I've never been and this is going to be a learning experience if I get my stuff together and go.
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1st couple times, I'd use what I've got. Like I said for calling, I like an AR15 in .223. they're usually either running or trotting in and sure as heck running like hell on the way out. The multiple shots come in handy, and sometimes you'll have a couple come in.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
I'm getting old and I've never actually been hunting. Some friends from work are into hunting pretty serious and they have been talking about predator hunting. They talk about shooting foxes, bob cats, coyotes.

I was told if I got my hunting license they would be happy to let me go with them. So now my dilemma is what riffle should I be using. I was told they usually shoot out to about 75 yards at night. One guy usually uses a 22-250 and one guy usually has a shot gun for anything that wanders in close.

I normally punch paper and ring gongs so I'm not set up for dropping live animals. On top of that I live in California so no lead will be used. I have several AR rifles in .223/5.56. and a 7.62X39 rifle. One guy told me he has seen a lot of these animals get away after being hit with a 223 round.

I've been thinking about buying a 308 bolt action rifle but with the scamdemic I don't know if I will be able to actually find something. That leaves me three options. I can shoot .223 out of an AR platform, use my Russian SKS in 7.62X39 which I would rather not, or build/buy another AR upper in something better than 5.56.

Copper bullets are a must and I do reload for everything I shoot other than 7.62X39. Any good recommendations are greatly appreciated.
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If they ran off at 75 yds from a .223 but not a .22-250(edited for autopilot my bad) then it wasn't the round used that made the difference I promise you, Barnes makes some varmint bullets, (grenade types) Hornady and nosler both make a lead free varmint bullet, and then there are the Lehigh bullets. Depending on your skill and shot placement I'd look hard at a Barnes 45 gr tsx for odd angle shots. Put more money into the scope, betting they have the lights, so get a GOOD scope so you can see what you're shooting. Illuminated reticles don't make up for bad optics. Low power illumination at night, just enough to see the reticle easily. The 50something grenade types will work well if you're confident of your ability to put them in the vitals (includes brain, spine, lungs, heart).
 
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horsey300 said:
If they ran off at 75 yds from a .223 but not a .22-250(edited for autopilot my bad) then it wasn't the round used that made the difference I promise you, Barnes makes some varmint bullets, (grenade types) Hornady and Nosler both make a lead free varmint bullet, and then there are the Lehigh bullets. Depending on your skill and shot placement I'd look hard at a Barnes 45 gr TSX for odd angle shots. Put more money into the scope, betting they have the lights, so get a GOOD scope so you can see what you're shooting. Illuminated reticles don't make up for bad optics. Low power illumination at night, just enough to see the reticle easily. The 50something grenade types will work well if you're confident of your ability to put them in the vitals (includes brain, spine, lungs, heart).
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Id agree. Good optics behind decent lights makes night shooting a lot easier. That said, I mostly used cheap sub-100 dollar scopes when I did a lot of night work. Bright enough spotlight and it didn't matter, but I shot at lots of eyes when just using regular flashlights. Better optics and I might have been able to resolve the animal better than that.
Ive killed a pile of Axis deer with .223 and .22lrs. Never shot mono metals, but Id expect any of the majors who make varmint type should work pretty slick on something the size of a yote.
 
LoonWulf said:
Id agree. Good optics behind decent lights makes night shooting a lot easier. That said, I mostly used cheap sub-100 dollar scopes when I did a lot of night work. Bright enough spotlight and it didn't matter, but I shot at lots of eyes when just using regular flashlights. Better optics and I might have been able to resolve the animal better than that.
Ive killed a pile of Axis deer with .223 and .22lrs. Never shot mono metals, but Id expect any of the majors who make varmint type should work pretty slick on something the size of a yote.
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I learned to like seeing more of the background. I started with a cheap illuminated reticle scope, sure worked, but I wouldn't notice the friends hanging out on the side, the tube red out was not awesome, could have been the specific scopes I had at the time, cats are fun tricky sometimes too, the eyes don't always get that clean shot if kitty is crouched behind a clump of something lol. Foxes and yotes (as long as they're not in a pack, really aren't hard to thin out. If the guy on the call is really on it, the extras will stop and look back to see what happened. Something like the lil bushnell optic with the upside down horseshoe dot reticle or a 2x magnifier on the romeo5 or a firedot would work well..... Hmmm...... getting close to time for fur prices........maybe it's time to negotiate with the Mrs on optics again lol...
 
Waterboy3313 said:
Mostly private land that has probably been burned 3 times in the last 5 years. It actually is a good mix of everything. Some areas are open and flat some are hilly pretty good vegetation. If we go to the one guys house it's flat and wide open. The terrain around here is pretty well a good mix of everything.

I've never actually been with these guys but sometimes they sit in one place and take take multiple foxes and coyotes. They uses an electronic call wait for a bit if nothing comes they have multiple places on a lot of acreage where picking up and moving a mile or two is easily done. Like I said I've never been and this is going to be a learning experience if I get my stuff together and go.
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Get a decent sitting height bipod or tripod that will help hold the gun while you're not in the scope, something similar to the bog deathgrip would go a long way, when I'm calling, I'll wait up to 90 min before moving so getting comfy is a big deal. If you really have a budget to work with, a thermal scope with extra battery pack would spoil you to pieces, but that's something you'll have to decide personally if it's worth the investment, atn makes some night vision and thermal scopes that record, if that's the route you go, go low zoom power. Everywhere out here is wide open except for an occasional shelterbelt, range targets BEFORE the animal comes in, (this is more hunt specific than night predator) and know your holdovers if you're planning on stretching it, avg of 75 is easy enough but to down the critter playing cagey on the edges will mean realizing that the distance looks different at night.
 
Thanks for all of the helpful input. Sounds like I will probably stick with the .223/556 long barrel AR for now. One of the guys has a 24" bi pod he finds a good place to sit up right. Not a bad idea in my not tried and tested opinion. They also all use bolt action rifles. If I was under gunned I assume my advantage would be to get another shot or two off much faster.

I have a few different scope options but I'm pretty sure anything that would be in the night vision group of scopes is probably illegal in CA. I will have to buy some copper bullets work them up and most likely re sight before I can even consider going. It will likely take me some time to get setup but I do want to go give it a try.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
Thanks for all of the helpful input. Sounds like I will probably stick with the .223/556 long barrel AR for now. One of the guys has a 24" bi pod he finds a good place to sit up right. Not a bad idea in my not tried and tested opinion. They also all use bolt action rifles. If I was under gunned I assume my advantage would be to get another shot or two off much faster.

I have a few different scope options but I'm pretty sure anything that would be in the night vision group of scopes is probably illegal in CA. I will have to buy some copper bullets work them up and most likely re sight before I can even consider going. It will likely take me some time to get setup but I do want to go give it a try.
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The 50 gr ttsx runs beautiful with benchmark, no promises on anything obviously as your rifle may disagree but it may be a good jumping off point?
 
Shot placement is king. Pretty hard for me to imagine shooting what are essentially dogs and oversize house cats with 223/5.56 and not getting desired results with a well placed shot. I hunt deer and hogs with 223/5.56, and never lost an animal. Shot placement is important no matter the game or round used.
 
Shot placement is king. Pretty hard for me to imagine shooting what are essentially dogs and oversize house cats with 223/5.56 and not getting desired results with a well placed shot. I hunt deer and hogs with 223/5.56, and never lost an animal. Shot placement is important no matter the game or round used.
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I kind of figured that much. The one guy that I will be going with if I go is dead set on the idea of a semi auto rifle can not be accurate. Also he is the same guy that said he has seen a lot of these animals get away after being hit with a .223 and is the one that uses a 22-250.

All of my rifles are semi auto and I'm not into shooting much of anything else because my normal range time is spent shooting at paper and steel. I still would like to buy a larger caliber bolt action rifle sometime in the near future. But if a .223-5.56 has been good enough for the military for 60ish years I would like to think it would be good for shooting dogs and largish type house cats.

I need to talk with my dad. I told him a while back I was interested in a rifle he now has that was my grandfather's. It's an old 30.06 I haven't seen it in 20+ years. I know it probably hasn't fired a shot in at least 30-35+ years but I want it for sentinel reasons. It might make a good occasional predator hunting rifle.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
I normally punch paper and ring gongs so I'm not set up for dropping live animals. On top of that I live in California so no lead will be used. I have several AR rifles in .223/5.56. and a 7.62X39 rifle. One guy told me he has seen a lot of these animals get away after being hit with a 223 round.
Click to expand...

What you've got will do nicely. Everything I have shot with .223 soft tip hunting ammo has dropped like a bag of rocks. Feral hogs, wild dogs, bobcats, coyotes. Never lost an animal I didn't outright miss, yet, and that's not often. Just take your favorite AR, and sight in some good hunting ammo.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
I kind of figured that much. The one guy that I will be going with if I go is dead set on the idea of a semi auto rifle can not be accurate. Also he is the same guy that said he has seen a lot of these animals get away after being hit with a .223 and is the one that uses a 22-250.

All of my rifles are semi auto and I'm not into shooting much of anything else because my normal range time is spent shooting at paper and steel. I still would like to buy a larger caliber bolt action rifle sometime in the near future. But if a .223-5.56 has been good enough for the military for 60ish years I would like to think it would be good for shooting dogs and largish type house cats.

I need to talk with my dad. I told him a while back I was interested in a rifle he now has that was my grandfather's. It's an old 30.06 I haven't seen it in 20+ years. I know it probably hasn't fired a shot in at least 30-35+ years but I want it for sentinel reasons. It might make a good occasional predator hunting rifle.
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I would not plan on a .30-06 with monos for nighttime predators, soooooo much chance of overtravel where you can't verify your backdrops so easily...... And come hide season.......
Waterboy3313 said:
I believe that bullet is made by barnes? If so that was what I was leaning towards.
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Yes it's a Barnes. Not a varmint type more of a deer type, so plenty of penetration.
 
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