9mm crimp

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Crazy Horse

Crazy Horse

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GM everyone,

There was another thread concerning 9mm flare and taper. I didn't want to hijack that thread as this question pertains to crimp.

I know 9mm calls for a taper crimp.

Yesterday I was at a match and twice I had my reloaded bullets (ACME lead round nose 125gr) got jammed and I couldn't clear the round as the slide was stuck causing the SO to stop the run. He looked at my bullet and indicated that it may be too tight a crimp causing it to jam.

After the second jam, I switched over to my jacketed reloads. No issues with those whatsoever. I reload both of those types of bullets under the same press. The only difference is in the OAL. The lead bullets get 1.090 (plunk tested) OAL and the FMJ bullets get 1.120 OAL. I've tested both of those OALs several times when reloading and Lead bullets need a shorter OAL to pass the plunk test.

I have a Hornady seat die and because of my 5 station press, I have been seating and crimping with the same die. Having to use a separate taper crimp would require me to remove the powder cop (which gives me piece of mind on my powder). I do have a Lee taper crimp for 9mm, but was debating on whether I should remove the crimp altogether and just go without it.

In the past folks recommended keeping both steps separate, which is why I bought a Lee 9mm taper crimp die. As time progressed, I thought I was doing well enough, and removed the taper crimp and combined both steps with the Hornady seating/crimp die. Until now. The only thing that causes me concern is why it only occurs with Lead bullets and not jacketed bullets (Lead is .356 and Jacketed is .355).

There have been past threads where folks have indicated not using any crimp for 9mm reloads without issues. Does anyone here currently reload 9mm without any crimp? Any issues?

At this point, I've decided to only use FMJ reloads in future matches, but with shortages abound would like to get LRN bullets working properly JIC.



TIA

CH
 
At this point, use your micrometers to compare the offending cast rounds to your good jacketed rounds (any time there is a fit issue, measure.). Adding crimp may add to the problem, as too much crimp often bulges the case. But I do not crimp any semi-auto handload, I just "deflare" with a taper crimp die. Try the plunk test with some of the "bad" rounds, as there are a few reasons other than "crimp" that will cause chambering problems (OAL, bullet profile, bullet diameter, etc.).
 
Crazy Horse said:
. . . I had my reloaded bullets (ACME lead round nose 125gr) got jammed and I couldn't clear the round as the slide was stuck causing the SO to stop the run. He looked at my bullet and indicated that it may be too tight a crimp causing it to jam.
Click to expand...
No. There's no such thing a jam caused be a crimp being "too tight". It is possible to crush and expand the case body by overcrimping, but much more likely you simply failed to seat to a short enough COAL.

How far below a passing plunk test COAL are you seating? I'll bet you're not short enough to accommodate your lead bullet ogive variation.
 
I seat and crimp in separate steps for cartridges that head space on the case mouth.
Examine a finished round with a lead bullet that has been seated and crimped in one step, you will likely see lead and lube in front of the case mouth. To help with this issue I would try chamfering the inside of the case mouth and apply a lighter taper crimp.
 
joneb said:
Examine a finished round with a lead bullet that has been seated and crimped in one step, you will likely see lead and lube in front of the case mouth. To help with this issue I would try chamfering the inside of the case mouth and apply a lighter taper crimp.
Click to expand...
Usually lead bullet requires a little more "belling" to prevent the lube and lead build up and the case mouth, whereas jacketed bullets need very little or no belling. When loading lead or coated bullets, I found it to be best to separate the seating and crimping functions for this very reason. In fact,I load purely jacketed 9mm on my Pro 1000 to prevent having to separate the steps.
 
edwardware said:
No. There's no such thing a jam caused be a crimp being "too tight". It is possible to crush and expand the case body by overcrimping, but much more likely you simply failed to seat to a short enough COAL.

How far below a passing plunk test COAL are you seating? I'll bet you're not short enough to accommodate your lead bullet ogive variation.
Click to expand...
I'm not going past the 1.090 plunk test. When I check after they are done, It's between 1.085-1.090. Lead bullets in my experience do have fatter OGIVE curves. The reason I've been hesitant to go below 1.090 is because the standard OAL for the load is 1.130. When I load to lead bullets to that OAL, they don't pass the plunk test. I know SAAMI lists the min OAL for 9mm at 1.00, but I'm trying to guard against over pressure as I'm already seating below the COAL listed in the recipe.

I'll be braking out the case gauge to check for case expansion. THX.
 
MeanBean said:
Usually lead bullet requires a little more "belling" to prevent the lube and lead build up and the case mouth, whereas jacketed bullets need very little or no belling. When loading lead or coated bullets, I found it to be best to separate the seating and crimping functions for this very reason. In fact,I load purely jacketed 9mm on my Pro 1000 to prevent having to separate the steps.
Click to expand...
I have recently started to increase the "belling." I like separating the process of seating and crimping, but it requires me to remove the powder cop which measures the amount of powder in the case after charging. Trying not to forego the powder cop, but it may come to that. THX
 
Lots of things to unpack here and I am not clear whether you are having FEEDING issues or CAMBERING issues so I will try to cover a few things that might be causing you problems:

1. Lead bullets are generally going to be .001-.002 larger in diameter than jackets bullets. Therefore, you will need to adjust your crimp die accordingly, Just like you do with a jackets bullet, measure the finished round at the case mouth to make sure you are completely removing the bell and not crimping the round (9mm doesn't need to be crimped). This should be around .379 (.355 bullet + .012 case wall + .012 case wall) for a standard jacketed 9mm bullet. Lead bullets should be around .380-.381 depending on how much larger the bullet is. You don't want less because because that means you are swagging down the bullet thus negating the reason they are oversized in the first place.

2. You need to figure out the max working overall length for your chamber (this is not the same as max COL). Sounds like you have already verified that your you COL passes the plunk test in your chamber, no a chamber guage. Next, you have to figure out what you max WORKING OVERALL LENGTH is for you chamber and magazine. Once you know the COL, you need to load about 5 dummy rounds (no powder or primer) into your magazine, and had cycle the slide to see if they all load smoothly and eject. If not, you may need to either seat your bullets a little deeper until they do or adjust how you magazine feeds that bullet. Walkalong and LiveLife have both posted some great information on this on this forum. Search for their posts and read them if you are unclear as to how to do this.

3. Magazines can cause feeding issues. There are several types of followers that work better with different shapes of bullets. A simple to a hybrid style follower might do the trick. In my custom bullseye 9mm 1911, I had to change the follower and install a magazine release from EGW that holds the magazine .020 higher before it would reliably feed 115/124gr Zero JHP. . I like Metalform mags from Brownells. Some guys find a stiffer magazine spring helps with feeding issues as well.

4. Lastly, make sure your finished rounds do not have any wax or lead shavings around the mouth of the case. 9MM locates off the mouth of the case and if there is anything on it, the round may not chamber correctly. Tip - look into Lyman M-Style expands, they have a 2-step expander plug that allows you to expand (not flare) the case a little more so that you are not shaving lead during seating. Also, NOE makes custom expands plugs in different diameters that work with Lee Universal Expander dies. These will allow you to match the expander plug to the diameter of your lead bullet.

Sorry for the detail, but I hope one of these examples will help you figure out why you are having trouble.
 
Crazy Horse said:
I know SAAMI lists the min OAL for 9mm at 1.00, but I'm trying to guard against over pressure as I'm already seating below the COAL listed in the recipe.
Click to expand...
Well, you know the solution to your problem. . . seating shorter. If you're not willing to back down the charge and work back up at a functional COAL, there's not much else to be done.

You could ream the throats a bit, but I would suggest loading functional ammo for the gun rather than reaming the barrel for a COAL you found in a book.

And skip the case gauge unless you'll be shooting the match with it. Use the barrel(s) you intend to shoot to check the ammo you intend to shoot.
 
Crazy Horse said:
I have recently started to increase the "belling." I like separating the process of seating and crimping, but it requires me to remove the powder cop which measures the amount of powder in the case after charging. Trying not to forego the powder cop, but it may come to that. THX
Click to expand...
I too have to increase the bell when loading coated lead to prevent shaving. It’s one of the reasons on my LNL I use the PTX to free up a station and use the dreaded Lee FCD on station 5. Yes, even with lead.
I would suspect you may have a case or two that have a thicker wall in combination with a thicker lead bullet and with no taper crimp may cause it to “stick out” a bit more. You didn’t mention clearing the jam but if the round fed but didn’t chamber, and you had trouble racking the slide to clear it, hopefully you can inspect it. With a lead bullet if it stuck in the lands, you’d be able to see it, and depending on the neck tension, if you have had to forcefully rack the slide you’d likely unseat the bullet or at least increase the COL. If it were the brass hanging up, there’s usually a shiny scrape around the mouth of the case.
If you’re confident the different bullet profiles pass their respective plunk test at the COL you currently have, I would not shorten the COL. Take a look at the Hondo or Shockbottle case gauge. I know they’re not your gun’s chamber, but it’s the only thing I use and they quickly point out the occasional fat cartridge. It only takes a couple of minutes to load 100 and move on. Good luck!
 
Crazy Horse said:
I have recently started to increase the "belling." I like separating the process of seating and crimping, but it requires me to remove the powder cop which measures the amount of powder in the case after charging. Trying not to forego the powder cop, but it may come to that. THX
Click to expand...

Just remember, no matter what, you have to remove the case bell... even if you don't 'crimp' your bullets. Assuming you are comfortable with your reloading routine, I would drop the cop and carry on. I bought my 5-station Hornady just so I could seat and crimp in separate steps.

One other thing... and I have seen this with revolvers shooting cast bullets... is there a build up of lead right at the forward shoulder of the chamber? I've had to mash revolver cartridges into a cylinder after lead had built up short of the cylinder throats.
 
Ruger 15151 said:
Lots of things to unpack here and I am not clear whether you are having FEEDING issues or CAMBERING issues so I will try to cover a few things that might be causing you problems:

1. Lead bullets are generally going to be .001-.002 larger in diameter than jackets bullets. Therefore, you will need to adjust your crimp die accordingly, Just like you do with a jackets bullet, measure the finished round at the case mouth to make sure you are completely removing the bell and not crimping the round (9mm doesn't need to be crimped). This should be around .379 (.355 bullet + .012 case wall + .012 case wall) for a standard jacketed 9mm bullet. Lead bullets should be around .380-.381 depending on how much larger the bullet is. You don't want less because because that means you are swagging down the bullet thus negating the reason they are oversized in the first place.

2. You need to figure out the max working overall length for your chamber (this is not the same as max COL). Sounds like you have already verified that your you COL passes the plunk test in your chamber, no a chamber guage. Next, you have to figure out what you max WORKING OVERALL LENGTH is for you chamber and magazine. Once you know the COL, you need to load about 5 dummy rounds (no powder or primer) into your magazine, and had cycle the slide to see if they all load smoothly and eject. If not, you may need to either seat your bullets a little deeper until they do or adjust how you magazine feeds that bullet. Walkalong and LiveLife have both posted some great information on this on this forum. Search for their posts and read them if you are unclear as to how to do this.

3. Magazines can cause feeding issues. There are several types of followers that work better with different shapes of bullets. A simple to a hybrid style follower might do the trick. In my custom bullseye 9mm 1911, I had to change the follower and install a magazine release from EGW that holds the magazine .020 higher before it would reliably feed 115/124gr Zero JHP. . I like Metalform mags from Brownells. Some guys find a stiffer magazine spring helps with feeding issues as well.

4. Lastly, make sure your finished rounds do not have any wax or lead shavings around the mouth of the case. 9MM locates off the mouth of the case and if there is anything on it, the round may not chamber correctly. Tip - look into Lyman M-Style expands, they have a 2-step expander plug that allows you to expand (not flare) the case a little more so that you are not shaving lead during seating. Also, NOE makes custom expands plugs in different diameters that work with Lee Universal Expander dies. These will allow you to match the expander plug to the diameter of your lead bullet.

Sorry for the detail, but I hope one of these examples will help you figure out why you are having trouble.
Click to expand...

Ruger15151,
I'll look at expanding the lead reloads more. I was trying to find the middle of the road. I didn't think that swaging would cause issues. I will admit that my lead bullets sit tighter on the case before seating than my jacketed bullets. Sometimes there are shavings. That's why I thought that maybe crimping was the issue.

As for the max length, I seated the Lead bullet until it passed the plunk test which was 1.090. Based on your description, for my firearm, that is the max overall length for the chamber. That of course is for lead bullets. As Edwardware stated, it could be because of the OGIVE. which means that I should be seating lower than 1.090 (or adjust the powder charge).

When I do the plunk test using published COAL loads for jacketed data, the bullet passes the test with no issues.

I don't typically have any issues with cast reloads (once I figured out my max overall working length using lead bullets), but yesterday was a bit frustrating and embarrassing. Good thing I had jacketed reloads or I wouldn't have completed the match. With all these shortages, cannot expect the range to have inventory.

Thanks again.
 
Crazy Horse said:
I'm not going past the 1.090 plunk test. When I check after they are done, It's between 1.085-1.090. Lead bullets in my experience do have fatter OGIVE curves. The reason I've been hesitant to go below 1.090 is because the standard OAL for the load is 1.130. When I load to lead bullets to that OAL, they don't pass the plunk test.
Click to expand...
I would assume that most bullets designed for cartridges that head space off the case mouth allow for the bullet to be seated on the bearing surface of the bullet and not the ogive.
 
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MeanBean said:
Usually lead bullet requires a little more "belling" to prevent the lube and lead build up and the case mouth, whereas jacketed bullets need very little or no belling.
Click to expand...
I bell the case mouth just enough so the bullet can be seated straight in to the case.
 
joneb said:
I would assume that most bullets designed for cartridges that head space off the case mouth allow for the bullet to be seated on the bearing surface of the bullet and not the ogive.
Click to expand...

I believe this means that the surface of the bullet (OGIVE) is restricting the bullet from fully seating. If the OGIVE were narrower it would allow the bullet to seat on the case mouth as you say. Others with much more experience, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I have run into only two different bullets where the OGIVE was too wide causing the bullets to be unusable in all my 9mm's.

I tried seating lower until the reload (FMJ bullet) worked on my Glock Ruger, and Canik. But It wouldn't work on my M&P, Springfield Armory, or SAR. I inquired about it on this forum and a couple of users stated that they weren't able to get that specific bullet to work on theirs either, so they just didn't purchase that brand and type of bullet anymore. That type was a FMJ type of bullet and the OGIVE was just too wide. It is also the only FMJ bullet that I could not get functioning on all my 9mm semis.

I have run across that one other time, but this one was with a Lead bullet. I have learned since that there are bullets out there that will not work on all my 9mm's unless other adjustments are made (COAL adjustment or powder adjustment). I have my risk limits which don't go far beyond 1.090 in 9mm. In this particular issue, I will be testing and going down to 1.085 as 1.090 is my max useable OAL. Still not a compressed load, but the airspace will be shorter. The other requirement that I have -for me- is that my reloads have to function properly on all my firearms. I don't like having a caliber work on some but not all my firearms of that specific caliber. There's plenty of different types of bullets out there where I should be able to find one that works reliably in every 9mm. Up until Sunday the 125LRN from ACME (as well as the 124LRN from ACME) fit that bill.

Because it worked well in the past, it has to be something that I'm overlooking. At this point, I'm thinking it's because I'm not expanding the case wide enough, or because I'm seating the bullets already at my max OAL for that particular firearm. In this case, I am expanding the case wider for lead bullets and seating to 1.085 (below 1.090). Let's see how that works out.

The one other difference is the rate of fire I was shooting at. When I'm at the range, I don't shoot rapidly, but in a match, because you are times, I tend to pull the trigger faster. So part of my test will be to fire at a similar fashion as in a match.

As a note: I have loaded 9mm as low as 1.058, but that was a different powder and the COAL was a published, so this wasn't deviating from a published COAL.
 
Crazy Horse said:
ACME lead round nose 125 gr ... I have my risk limits which don't go far beyond 1.090 in 9mm. In this particular issue, I will be testing and going down to 1.085 as 1.090 is my max useable OAL
Click to expand...
If your barrel has very short leade with sharper start of rifling, shorter rounder profile RN bullets require shorter OAL as they just won't work at longer OALs to where even MBC has changed the profile of their SmallBall RN. Even with their new profile Hi-Tek coated RN, I need to use shorter 1.040"-1.050" OAL with my barrels that have shorter leade - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-11465109

index.php


Crazy Horse said:
I was at a match and twice I had my reloaded bullets got jammed and I couldn't clear the round as the slide was stuck causing the SO to stop the run.

At this point, I've decided to only use FMJ reloads in future matches, but with shortages abound would like to get LRN bullets working properly
Click to expand...
Paint the offending rounds that got stuck with marker and see where it is contacting the chamber/rifling.

If the offending rounds are contacting the chamber wall, check to see if they are same headstamp as it may be due to thicker case wall brass causing bulging of case neck where bullet base is seated to and rubbing the chamber wall - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

As to reloading "match grade" rounds, there is definite difference between reloading General Purpose/Practice/Plinking rounds vs Match Grade rounds and strictly adhering to "match grade" level of reloading of not just using match grade/more consistent components but more consistent reloading practice will ensure your match rounds will perform reliably and more accurately at matches.

This is what many of us do for "non-match grade" rounds.

Reloading General Purpose/Practice/Plinking rounds (To work with factory barrels with looser chamber dimensions and longer leade):
  • Mixed range brass with different case wall thickness, internal case volume, resized case lengths, quality of brass, etc. (That is a major contributing factor for flyers)
  • No sorting by resized case length to produce varying case mouth flare/taper crimp amount
  • Any bullet type (Lead/Coated/Plated/Jacketed) with no regard to ogive, sizing and weight variance
  • Progressively loaded while resizing brass
  • Progressively/press primed just to flush with case rim
  • Any powder with no regard to metering variance
  • No regard to finished OAL variance (Longer/max working OAL)
  • No regard to bullet setback
  • No case cage/barrel check of finished rounds (For failure to fully chamber drills at the range)

But this is what we should strive for to load "match grade" rounds that must perform without failure (In all the years of match shooting, I had one failure to fully chamber which was aggravated by shooting a dirty match pistol not cleaned from previous match ... Yeah, life happened and didn't get to clean my pistol).

Reloading Match Grade rounds (To work with match barrels with tighter chambers and shorter leade):
  • New/once-fired/sorted same headstamp brass for more consistent case wall thickness
  • Sorted brass for resized case length for more consistent case mouth flare and taper crimp amount
  • Bullet type/nose profile/brand selection for more consistent ogive, sizing and weight variance
  • Brass resized/deprimed separately to inspect/clean primer pocket as needed
  • Hand/press primed separately to seat around .004" below flush
  • Powder selection for .1 gr metering variance
  • Finished rounds with .001" OAL variance and shorter than max working OAL for greater neck tension
  • No bullet setback (Or up to .003" bullet setback for action pistol match and .001" for bullseye match)
  • Each finished round checked with case gage (Individual or 50/100 round case gage) or match barrel
When I shot USPSA matches in the 90s, I was trained by bullseye match shooting mentor who sorted brass/bullets for his match rounds. But while I used Montana Gold jacketed bullets exclusively due to greater consistency (I used Berry's plated for practice), I did not sort mixed range brass as case wall thickness was consistent enough and didn't sort bullets by weight as my match rounds produced acceptable accuracy of around 2"-3" groups at 25 yards (Which was good enough for action pistol type match).

Separately pre-resizing brass and hand/press priming not only made progressive reloading on Pro 1000 (Was taught on both Dillon 550/Pro 1K but chose Pro 1000 for auto index/case feeder features) silky smooth with very little effort, it also reduced the OAL variance more towards .001" (As shell plate tilt/deflection from resizing brass influence on case mouth flare/bullet seating/taper crimp amount was eliminated).

In the 90s, 9mm case wall thickness at case mouth averaged around .011" and adding .022" to the diameter of bullet returned case mouth flare back flat on the bullet and slightly more for longer case lengths and thicker case wall brass. (.377" for .355" sized bullets and .378" for .3555"-.356" sized bullets). But over the decades, I have noticed case walls for certain headstamp brass got thicker (Maybe due to higher pressure NATO spec loading?) and finished rounds would not fully chamber in my barrels so I now sort these headstamp brass out to use with smaller sized bullets (.354"-.355") - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Would I consider using coated lead bullets for match shooting? Sure, especially during pandemic shortage, but only if I could reasonably assure that bullet seating depth consistency could be maintained and all the finished rounds fully chambered in my match barrel.
 
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I would be looking hard at those rounds that did not function. Look at the lead bullets. It might be as simple is you have bullets that came out of different molds. One might have a different ogive length and is hanging up. You just set things up on the shorter one. Or the already mentioned buildup of lead and wax caused by seating a bullet without enough flare. If you can't find where it is hanging up color it with a black magic marker and try to seat it. You should see the problem easily then. Let us know when you find the solution. I find 9MM can be a finicky beast at times.
 
LiveLife said:
If your barrel has very short leade with sharper start of rifling, shorter rounder profile RN bullets require shorter OAL as they just won't work at longer OALs to where even MBC has changed the profile of their SmallBall RN. Even with their new profile Hi-Tek coated RN, I need to use shorter 1.040"-1.050" OAL with my barrels that have shorter leade - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-11465109

index.php



Paint the offending rounds that got stuck with marker and see where it is contacting the chamber/rifling.

If the offending rounds are contacting the chamber wall, check to see if they are same headstamp as it may be due to thicker case wall brass causing bulging of case neck where bullet base is seated to and rubbing the chamber wall - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

As to reloading "match grade" rounds, there is definite difference between reloading General Purpose/Practice/Plinking rounds vs Match Grade rounds and strictly adhering to "match grade" level of reloading of not just using match grade/more consistent components but more consistent reloading practice will ensure your match rounds will perform reliably and more accurately at matches.

This is what many of us do for "non-match grade" rounds.

Reloading General Purpose/Practice/Plinking rounds (To work with factory barrels with looser chamber dimensions and longer leade):
  • Mixed range brass with different case wall thickness, internal case volume, resized case lengths, quality of brass, etc. (That is a major contributing factor for flyers)
  • No sorting by resized case length to produce varying case mouth flare/taper crimp amount
  • Any bullet type (Lead/Coated/Plated/Jacketed) with no regard to ogive, sizing and weight variance
  • Progressively loaded while resizing brass
  • Progressively/press primed just to flush with case rim
  • Any powder with no regard to metering variance
  • No regard to finished OAL variance (Longer/max working OAL)
  • No regard to bullet setback
  • No case cage/barrel check of finished rounds (For failure to fully chamber drills at the range)

But this is what we should strive for to load "match grade" rounds that must perform without failure (In all the years of match shooting, I had one failure to fully chamber which was aggravated by shooting a dirty match pistol not cleaned from previous match ... Yeah, life happened and didn't get to clean my pistol).

Reloading Match Grade rounds (To work with match barrels with tighter chambers and shorter leade):
  • New/once-fired/sorted same headstamp brass for more consistent case wall thickness
  • Sorted brass for resized case length for more consistent case mouth flare and taper crimp amount
  • Bullet type/nose profile/brand selection for more consistent ogive, sizing and weight variance
  • Brass resized/deprimed separately to inspect/clean primer pocket as needed
  • Hand/press primed separately to seat around .004" below flush
  • Powder selection for .1 gr metering variance
  • Finished rounds with .001" OAL variance and shorter than max working OAL for greater neck tension
  • No bullet setback (Or up to .003" bullet setback for action pistol match and .001" for bullseye match)
  • Each finished round checked with case gage (Individual or 50/100 round case gage) or match barrel
When I shot USPSA matches in the 90s, I was trained by bullseye match shooting mentor who sorted brass/bullets for his match rounds. But while I used Montana Gold jacketed bullets exclusively due to greater consistency (I used Berry's plated for practice), I did not sort mixed range brass as case wall thickness was consistent enough and didn't sort bullets by weight as my match rounds produced acceptable accuracy of around 2"-3" groups at 25 yards (Which was good enough for action pistol type match).

Separately pre-resizing brass and hand/press priming not only made progressive reloading on Pro 1000 (Was taught on both Dillon 550/Pro 1K but chose Pro 1000 for auto index/case feeder features) silky smooth with very little effort, it also reduced the OAL variance more towards .001" (As shell plate tilt/deflection from resizing brass influence on case mouth flare/bullet seating/taper crimp amount was eliminated).

In the 90s, 9mm case wall thickness at case mouth averaged around .011" and adding .022" to the diameter of bullet returned case mouth flare back flat on the bullet and slightly more for longer case lengths and thicker case wall brass. (.377" for .355" sized bullets and .378" for .3555"-.356" sized bullets). But over the decades, I have noticed case walls for certain headstamp brass got thicker (Maybe due to higher pressure NATO spec loading?) and finished rounds would not fully chamber in my barrels so I now sort these headstamp brass out to use with smaller sized bullets (.354"-.355") - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10713822

Would I consider using coated lead bullets for match shooting? Sure, especially during pandemic shortage, but only if I could reasonably assure that bullet seating depth consistency could be maintained and all the finished rounds fully chambered in my match barrel.
Click to expand...

LiveLife,

Thanks for the time and the information.

The last time I used coated bullets for a match, I didn't have any issues, but those were the ACME Red lip stick 124gr bullets. I did noticed that those (red) bullets have a sharper curve, more like jacketed coated bullets while ACME's 125gr bullets seem a little "fatter." This tells me that they are using a different mold. I'll definitely be looking at building my test loads this evening with a 1.085 OAL on the 125gr bullets.

Those red MBC bullets look chunky, more like the Brazos Precision bullets that I don't use anymore.

As for match grade, yeah, Chuck R. filled me in on the match grade issues awhile back and stated that he stays away from them. I'm not anywhere near good enough to consider going through the list above, so those 100+ bullets will stay in the drawer. I will however check my reloads prior to each match individually after they are complete. I always check all my reloads visually and by weight, but only check the OAL on every 10th round. I definitely will be incorporating the plunk test for rounds I build for a match to include switching to FMJ to save myself grief and embarrassment.

If things run short, I still have ACME 124gr bullets.

After Sunday's problems, I ordered 1k FMJ 124gr bullets.

Funny how just when you think you've got a system worked out, a new variable comes along to keep things interesting.

Thanks again.

CH
 
So, I separate the seat and crimp process for 9mm (previously was only doing that for 45acp). I know it was mentioned that 9mm doesn't need a crimp, but using a light taper crimp (Lee taper crimp die) to eliminate flare and seating the bullet down to 1.085.
20201027_143734.jpg

It passed the plunk test easily.

Now lets see how they perform and feel when fired.

THX again.
 
Observation:

So I reloaded 50 rounds. I started at 1.080. 20 bullets passed the plunk test with no problems. The next 20, I had to seat at 1.060 in order for them to pass the plunk test. The 8 after that I had to go between 1.045-1.040 to get them to pass the plunk test. The remaining 2 I had to go down to 1.034 to get them to pass:

20201027_163221.jpg

The last Observation that I noticed with these bullets is that the tip tended to be flatter for those that required a lower seating. See the pic below:

20201027_163222.jpg

This means that these ACME bullets are not very consistent. Now that's frustrating.

At least now I know. I'm going to go with only ACME red lipstick bullets. These 125gr bullets have too many variations.
 

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Crazy Horse said:
Observation that I noticed with these bullets is that the tip tended to be flatter for those that required a lower seating. See the pic below:
Click to expand...
Wait a minute ... The bullet nose definitely don't look right ...

Check your bullet seating die and see if it has flat nose or round nose stem/plug (Likely flat).

If you have a choice between flat/round, make sure you are using RN stem/plug as using flat nose stem/plug could tilt the bullet during seating not to mention different amount of OAL/seating depth.

WOW!
 
LiveLife said:
Wait a minute ... The bullet nose definitely don't look right ...

Check your bullet seating die and see if it has flat nose or round nose stem/plug (Likely flat).

If you have a choice between flat/round, make sure you are using RN stem/plug as using flat nose stem/plug could tilt the bullet during seating not to mention different amount of OAL/seating depth.

WOW!
Click to expand...
Livelife,

Good catch.

I checked the stem, it was the flat one (rookie mistake). I had loaded some 147gr flat nose bullets awhile back using this seating die. So it's not the ACME bullets (sorry ACME), which is a good thing because I have over 1k of them.

This also means that I'll be working another batch (with the correct stem this time) and seating at 1.080 to see how that works out to make sure it's consistent. If it worked for the first 20, I'm thinking it'll be good, but I want to make certain that the issue was COAL due to the stem.

I'll still be checking each bullet prior to the next match. It's easier to be embarrassed on this forum than at a match.

Although, it's still embarrassing, nonetheless.

Thanks again Livelife. Much appreciated.

CH



.
 
@Crazy Horse , just a friendly reminder shortening COL at a given powder charge will increase pressure. I usually try to judge seating depth so with your flattened nose, perhaps you’re not changing it that much! Good luck, let us know how the match goes!
 
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