“Just point it at them”

How can you “just shoot them in the leg” with a shotgun since it’ll hit everything in the house? Maybe shotguns are just for warning shots in the air?

A while back I was looking to pickup a shockwave to mess with and maybe keep ready in the house, then the corona happened. I've seen some pretty good patterns and even slugs shot good. There was a guy on YouTube hunting deer with one and slugs, he got a lot of flack for it but every deer he hit dropped deal.

It’s sort of true, but not in the way the purveyors of that advice usually mean.

no, you can’t clear a room full of goblins by pointing it in their general direction, but a shotgun is built to point.

taking your hd gun to the trap range might not be bad practice. If you can hit a moving clay at 20 yards, you can theoretically hit a bg at 7.

Hey bratch....your pic is a real eye-opener for those who think a "scatter-gun" doesn't require aiming. I have a new plan based on current atmosphere. I'll scare off would-be bad guys by not wearing a mask!!

Federal Flite Control wads are designed to hold the pellets together longer, so the effective range (aka:the range the pellets stay within a torso-width) is further.

They really do work as advertised, the shot will lump together until several yards has passed. Then they’ll spread at a slower rate than regular buck (which often uses just a fiber wad and buffer amongst the pellets.) I’ve seen useful patterns out of a 18.5” cyl barrel on torso silhouettes to 35-40 yards with them, while Winchester 00 spreads too much at 30.

It’s very good stuff, you’ll be well defended with the 00 or 1 buck Flite control rounds.

Stay safe.

Something must be wrong with your shotgun. Everyone knows at thst range it will cut a person in two, while blowing them backwards about 10 feet.

Part of my early training with riot guns (basic 12ga. short barreled shotguns, 18" barrels with simple bead sights) was a demonstration of how patterns spread from the muzzle going downrange. Our trainers set up identical blank paper targets at specific ranges, all at the same height - 3 yards, 7 yards, 15 yards, 20 yards one right after another on the exact same plane so that you could see at a glance with a single shot what the pattern would be at given distances. Since all of these shotguns (a mix of Mossberg and Remington pumps) had improved cylinder fixed chokes - the patterns spread at a very reliable one inch per yard from the muzzle.. At 7 yards the pattern was 7" , etc. One other thing that was pointed out to us isn't something that's spoken about much - and that is the pattern did rise slightly from that level plane as the pellets went through paper... Years later I always made a point of counselling young officers to always aim slightly low in a real life confrontation - both to compensate for any rise in trajectory but also to compensate for most folks shooting a bit high under severe stress...

Didn't take long to learn that you'd better be aiming to actually be hitting and that the farther away you were the less pellets would be making contact with a given target... All of this long before "Flite Control" rounds came on the market - and with only basic 2 3/4" 00buck rounds...

The other point they didn't teach us.. was that you'd better pattern any shotgun with the ammo you'll be using to be sure of your competence with it - and at various ranges as well..

I have a slug barrel with screw choke and it patterns a lot tighter than an inch per yard. Hmm, wonder what tube that is.

Times change, we are now told that the maximum range for a shotgun is limited by how far it will put all the shot on an opponent, no scattergunning allowed. So why a shotgun instead of a carbine? Is it because it is cheap and powerful?

When I was teaching regularly I kept a set of kneeling man targets I had shot at 3,7, and 15 yards with my teaching kit with my #1 Buck out of a Mossberg 500 GR 18.5 inch 12 gauge. Having them stopped the Spread myth right in its tracks ...at any range I got the myth from! BTW close enough to 1 inch per yard to not matter.

As to the myth of the sound of racking a pump shotgun....worked for me in the real world the one time I tried it. Perhaps myth is the wrong word. It may not be something that can be counted on but the sound of racking a shotgun pump has and can be enough to stop aggression ON OCCASSION.

-kBob

The whole "just point it" statement makes me laugh. You still have to aim. Even shooting skeet/trap or bird hunting, you still have to aim but also lead the targets.

Here is a single shot pattern and a 5 shot pattern from my 410 Mossberg 500 with a 18 1/2" cylinder bore barrel using 3" 5 pellet 000 buckshot loads at 15 yards.

lemaymiami said:

One other thing that was pointed out to us isn't something that's spoken about much - and that is the pattern did rise slightly from that level plane as the pellets went through paper... Years later I always made a point of counselling young officers to always aim slightly low in a real life confrontation - both to compensate for any rise in trajectory....

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Could you please explain or clarify how that works? As written, it kind of contradicts the laws of physics and ballistics. Thanks

Jason_W said:

It’s sort of true, but not in the way the purveyors of that advice usually mean.

no, you can’t clear a room full of goblins by pointing it in their general direction, but a shotgun is built to point.

taking your hd gun to the trap range might not be bad practice. If you can hit a moving clay at 20 yards, you can theoretically hit a bg at 7.

Click to expand...

I shoot skeet with my M1 Super 90's generally in the mid 20's

Longest distance in my home is 12 yards, 36 feet, from the front door (living room entrance) down the hallway to the back door (kitchen exit to the back deck).

I practiced with a defensive shotgun (19" barrel) on the family property on the mountain using log sections set up at various home defense distances paced off. Shot patterns had no distance to open up. May as well have been practicing with a shotgun with slugs (or with a rifle) as far as hitting went went.

Instinctive point shooting means aligning the barrel on the target before pulling the trigger. It can be done quick but actually takes practice to get good at. Ponting by shoving the muzzle in a general direction and jerking off a round can result in a miss and hitting an unintended target.

Racking the slide of a pump action shotgun has frightened off some home invaders. But you must be prepared for what to do if that fails, because it is definitely not a sure thing. If it works, good: if a home invader leaves the home, I have successfully defended myself. But I would not count on it working in more than a percentage of incidents.

Most burglers ain't too bright, but "racking" your shotgun pin-points your location..?

The only thing that a home invader might hear is the safety being moved. I always keep my shotguns fully loaded and one in the chamber. Of course I don't have any kids in the house anymore either.

Sorry Swing, should have elaborated... buckshot has a trajectory like any other projectile going down range but a much shorter one given the velocity and shape of the pellets. The variation you will see with targets at the exact same height spaced apart at known distances so that the pellets hit each target in turn as they go down range will show it but it’s very slight. I would never have thought of it if the instructor hadn’t pointed it out to us (and for me that was in 1974... long before all those 3 and 3.5 inch magnum chamberings, Flite Control cartridges, and shotguns with “Police” markings). Back then we were issued either Mossberg 500’s or Remington Wingmaster 870’s and every one looked like it had seen hard use and little maintenance... despite that I’ll swear that every one of them was utterly reliable for its intended purpose...

And for all the mis-information and out right BS to go with all the myths that movies and other entertainments have provided us... Here’s a small bit of real world experience to add a bit of truth...

I learned early on as a young cop that more than a few bad actors completely ignored me when I was pointing a handgun at them - and at relatively close range (less than fifty feet). A female officer in the same situation was much more likely to gain compliance (just a guess but I’m betting that ladies with guns just spook some guys...).

On the other hand no one (with one exception) ever ignored me when I was pointing a shotgun at them at close quarters. For a cop, not having to shoot is just what you’re looking for.... I don’t know anything about the sound of a pump gun being racked except that it always got my attention when it was coming from anywhere near me...

I was fortunate to spend 22 years on the street and always had a shotgun in hand on any hot call. In all those years I only had to fire one shot... and spent six months in and out of court for it...

I’d like to spend the rest of my life without going down that road again, period.

bratch said:

This is probably old news for most everyone on here but we are seeing lots of new gun owners join our fold and shotgun myths may be the most prevalent of all. “Just point it down the hall and you’ll hit everyone” has to compete with “Racking it will scare them away” for the top myth.

Yesterday I patterned my Mossberg Shockwave with Federal FliteControl 8 Pellet LE133. Full disclaimer this is higher end buckshot than your basic 00 from Walmart and all guns are unique. The Shockwave has a 14” barrel for anyone not familiar.

At 10 yards the shot was still basically a prefragmented slug. At 15 yards it had started to open up into about a 2-3” group. Inside of most houses 15 yards is a pretty long distance and it’s still only a 3” pattern, this is very easy to miss with if you just pointed it down the hall.

The big hole is the 10 yard shot and the 6 holes above it are the 15 yard shot, the two bigger holes in it are doubles.

View attachment 951273
Hopefully this will help a new shotgunner start separating myth and reality.

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You sure that big hole wasn't from the wad? I get holes like that in paper at 16 yards when I pattern test a new load

Carl N. Brown said:

May as well have been practicing with a shotgun with slugs

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And I have seen that recommended, too. Turns the shotgun into kind of a "repeating musket."
But in the event of the Recount Riots reaching my town, the long gun selected will be whichever is closer, 12 ga or .223 with no ballistic prejudice. Maybe even .44-40 but have I got any loaded?

lemaymiami said:

Sorry Swing, should have elaborated... buckshot has a trajectory like any other projectile going down range but a much shorter one given the velocity and shape of the pellets. The variation you will see with targets at the exact same height spaced apart at known distances so that the pellets hit each target in turn as they go down range will show it but it’s very slight. I would never have thought of it if the instructor hadn’t pointed it out to us (and for me that was in 1974... long before all those 3 and 3.5 inch magnum chamberings, Flite Control cartridges, and shotguns with “Police” markings). Back then we were issued either Mossberg 500’s or Remington Wingmaster 870’s and every one looked like it had seen hard use and little maintenance... despite that I’ll swear that every one of them was utterly reliable for its intended purpose...

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Thank you.

Sniper66 said:

Hey bratch....your pic is a real eye-opener for those who think a "scatter-gun" doesn't require aiming. I have a new plan based on current atmosphere. I'll scare off would-be bad guys by not wearing a mask!!

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NOOOO! That's too cruel. They'll never be able to be contributing citizens again after that trauma. Wait....

1) Technically most shotguns are pointed, because generally they have no sights, only bead(s) cause some people may hold the barrel in general direction and pull the trigger. Rather when your eye becomes a rear sight and front bead becomes a blade, I believe I am aiming. If I don't do that, I find my self not holding the gun properly. 2) Now don't pull a Biden on us now either. Old Joe said to just to point the shotgun out a window and pull the trigger and you will scare the pervert away. Someone did this a few years ago in New Jersey and was arrested for disturbing the peace. There was no proof there was a pervert. 4) A former police officer I knew, a very good trap shooter, almost always carried a shotgun when on a hot call. No one ever argued with him when looking down at his Win. Model -12. There is just something about looking into that 3/4 inch muzzle that scares the *&^%#$ out of people.

I am a firm believer that if a firearm is loaded for the purpose of defending you or your loved ones there should be a round already chambered and the only warning someone intent on bring harm to you or yours is the click of the safety being disengaged followed by a very loud bang. Having said that I have always kept a loaded 12 gauge hidden in the bedroom and my wife knows to point the muzzle in the center of the door way if need be. I know she can handle the recoil and chances are as long as she has th center of the door way covered she'll hit what ever menace fills that space. If I'm home the plan is I'll move to the kids room with a pistol while she stays put and calls 911. I'm not a cop and as far as I'm concerned they can have the contents of every un occupied room in my house or as much as the can pack up before the police arrive to clear the house. A shotgun to me is something I load up put away and hope to never have to use.

I just started shooting this summer, completely new to the whole thing. Just got my first pump shotgun and learned right away even though it’s a shotgun you still have to aim.