Pistol to rifle - defensive use - platform suggestions from a reloader's perspective?

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editingfx

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I've been handloading for my pistols (9 & 45) for some years, though not much in the last several years. Doing both on a Hornady L&L, though I've got a Lee single stage mothballed on the shelf. At my peak, I'd do about 1K rounds/month of combined calibers. Only rifle I own is a .22 I've had since as a kid.

Background: I've never had much desire for a defensive rifle, thinking a concealed carry is of far more practical value. But I'm considering adding a rifle for home defense. Before reloading I'd have gone to a shotgun for that purpose, but with firsthand experience in the cost savings of handloading for pistol, and subsequent experience gained of many 1000's of rounds sent downrange, I'm wondering if there might be logic in going to a rifle instead of a shotgun.

Factors: I'm not looking to shoot competitively with rifle like I did with pistol (just IDPA, so 'competitively' is perhaps too strong a word, lol), so accuracy isn't an issue. But I do appreciate the 'stand-off' aspect of a long gun. I don't hunt. Reloading is soothing, but carving out time is not easy. I do really like the 'comfort factor' of having many 1000's of rounds of components at hand, and never thinking about ammo shortages. I wouldn't stockpile anywhere near that amount of components for rifle however. Thinking rifle over shotgun as I already own a press I could set up of low runs of one caliber & leave set.

Question: Do you think my base logic is good, ie, rifle over shotgun, and doing very low volume reloads? If that is sound, what platform would you suggest, given my criteria? AR15, 30-30, etc. I'd say factor would be primarily ease of reloading and platform's dependability for eating handloads vs factory. Or is shotgun reloading an easier route, and economically advantageous?

Thanks in advance!
 
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I don't look at it as a platform being dependable eating hand loads vs factory. If I had handloads that were questionable for function, I would just use factory ammunition all the time, certainly in the unlikely event I needed it to save my life.

Reloading is like many things in this life, what you get out of it depends on what you put into it. The reason fewer people reload shotgun is because the "dove/quail" loads these days are pretty good and cost about what it costs to reload them and where "mixed brass" isn't uncommon in metallic reloading, you are asking for problems using mixed hulls.

If you are just wanting a rifle and want to keep it simple just get a 9mm or 45 caliber one, as you already load both.
 
This thread will probably explode into a fight over using a high-power rifle (cartridge) over a shotgun, pistol, or other low-velocity solution in a domestic/urban environment. It really boils down to where you are at, the ranges you expect to have to shoot at, and how close everyone is to you.

My .02 worth...

I live in a close neighborhood, a high-powered rifle is the last thing I would reach for, outside of a total meltdown. My primary home defense firearm is a shotgun, followed by a handgun.

A defensive long gun should be quickly reloadable... that pretty much points to a box magazine of some sort. I wouldn't want to fool around trying to shove .30-30's into a lever-action in the heat of the moment, if you see what I mean. I also agree with Jmorris... there is nothing wrong with a pistol cartridge carbine or rifle.
 
If you have no intention of shooting for volume I absolutely would not spend the time and effort to reload any defensive rifle round. There are a few considerations to do with this but number one is just the outright expensive buying the additional things that you will need like dies that you're not going to use routinely. The next thing to consider is do you want to have the possibility of additional litigation if you are in a self-defense shooting over a dollar to that you save on reloaded ammo that you're never going to shoot. Bye what you want and then just buy a boxer to a Speer gold dots and call it a day
 
High velocity rifle cup/core would be the safer for nearby neighbors, as it has been shown that they penetrate fewer walls since they fragment much more readily (with enough velocity). Pellets and pistol rounds go through more later of drywall in testing.

Pistol caliber carbine would be most convenient for you since you already load. Of the two, 9mm gets the biggest bump from the extra barrel length compared to 45.

Handloads have yet to cause a legal issue for defensive shootings, afaik. The only case I'm aware of was a suicide, and if anything the handloads basically allowed the husband to get away with murder if it wasn't actually a suicide.

What is your plan is if you ever need to put your hands on anything. Determine what works best within that plan.
 
The 'what's on hand' concept is well served by my EDC 1911's or compact 9. Or full sized 9 at the nightstand...

Good suggestions re: pistol caliber carbines! It's been so long since I'd read about them I'd totally forgotten that option. And I am SET for components, both 9 & 45, no matter how much plinking I do.

Assuming benchrest, roughly what sort of additional accuracy range might be expected of a carbine over say a full size pistol (in 9)? Like grouping at 100 instead of 50? (generally sorta kinda, lol)
 
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If you live in a neighborhood I would go to a pistol caliber carbine (9mm) long before the standard 5.56/.223. Less walls penetrated and such with a PCC. Maybe it doesn't matter as much if there's only you, or you and the wife and you are out in the open with no houses nearby.

Besides you mention that you already have components for pistol so you are GTG there.
-Jeff
 
Questions that need to be answered:

1. What's the intended purpose of said rifle? home defense, ranch defense against 4 legged predators, societal breakdown, fun at the range
2. What does your residence look like? Subdivision, suburbs, country, middle of no where
3. What do the laws in your state permit? AR with no restrictions (i.e. magazine limits, neutered AR accessories)

Personally, if its simply home defense, even leading into some ranch defense; I would stick with a nice carbine in a pistol caliber of your choice and spend the money not having to retool your LnL for rifle on premium bonded and HP bullets for use in said carbine. You already have the skills and materials to feed a pistol caliber so just bump up the velocity, control ability and get a nice optic for it and call it a day.

Something along the lines of the CMMG Resolute would be a good option with the ability to have two different uppers 9mm/40S&W, or on their larger frame 10mm/45ACP. Their design is a radial delayed blowback, and they utilize Glock patterned magazines which is very nice considering there are multiple options on manufacturers and they are cheap.

Outside of HD and closer ranch defense which a PCC like the CMMG Resolute; it would be an AR15 in 556 hands down, they have too many things going for them to deny. But if you don't have a desire for a rifle round and you obviously like pistol calibers and are setup nice to keep them fed, then just adding a carbine to your mix makes a lot of sense and down the line when you scratch up a little cash add a Remington or Mossberg 12gauge to that mix and you have a lot of bases covered.
 
BreechFace said:
Questions that need to be answered:

1. What's the intended purpose of said rifle? home defense, ranch defense against 4 legged predators, societal breakdown, fun at the range
2. What does your residence look like? Subdivision, suburbs, country, middle of no where
3. What do the laws in your state permit? AR with no restrictions (i.e. magazine limits, neutered AR accessories).
Click to expand...

1. home defense + additional range/accuracy over pistol
2. subdivision 1/2 acres
3. GA

Yup, leaning towards a 9 carbine from these comments, perhaps a Ruger PC. Yeah, not looking to take away from my next vacation to finance a Gucci gun. ;)
 
editingfx said:
1. home defense + additional range/accuracy over pistol
2. subdivision 1/2 acres
3. GA

Yup, leaning towards a 9 carbine from these comments, perhaps a Ruger PC. Yeah, not looking to take away from my next vacation to finance a Gucci gun. ;)
Click to expand...

Seems to me a pistol carbine would be perfect for your needs/wants. The Ruger should fill that role well. Like I mentioned and worth mentioning again, spend your money on quality bullets to negate some of the terminal deficiencies of a pistol round versus a rifle round. It won't get close to rifle performance no doubt, but with good projectiles a 124gr HP/bonded 9mm bullet at ~1,500 fps is nothing to sneeze at.
 
Think of it as layers of an onion.
If SHTF, and you can't keep the bad guys FAR way....they will continually move closer.
Long range/sniper rifle.
Hi capacity mid range rifle
Shotgun
Handgun
 
Check out Foxtrot Mike Products. They have 9mm and .45 in the AR platform. FM markets their products at a price point to leave room in the budget for optics and other accessories.

The 9mm AR rifles and pistols take Glock or Colt mags and are a BLAST to shoot. They are extremely accurate and will shoot a variety of ammo i.e. brass, steel, HP, FP, RN.

Customer service is the best I’ve seen yet.
 
Not sure about some of the penetration arguments, would have to have some standards set.

For example, I know a 35 grain vmax, even at .22 hornet velocities of 3000 fps, won't make it through a 12oz soda can without coming apart, as evidenced by the rear portion of the can but a 230gn fmj at 900 FPS will, and a lot more at that and remain completely intact.
 
jmorris said:
Not sure about some of the penetration arguments, would have to have some standards set.

For example, I know a 35 grain vmax, even at .22 hornet velocities of 3000 fps, won't make it through a 12oz soda can without coming apart, as evidenced by the rear portion of the can but a 230gn fmj at 900 FPS will, and a lot more at that and remain completely intact.
Click to expand...
Frangable rounds would work well, they take the hit and hopefully dont die. I'm not out to kill in most sd scenarios
 
jmorris said:
Not sure about some of the penetration arguments, would have to have some standards set.

For example, I know a 35 grain vmax, even at .22 hornet velocities of 3000 fps, won't make it through a 12oz soda can without coming apart, as evidenced by the rear portion of the can but a 230gn fmj at 900 FPS will, and a lot more at that and remain completely intact.
Click to expand...

Agreed, pistol and shotgun rounds are a much greater threat to over-penetration than many of the standard 556 rounds.
 
Out of curiosity (and mainly I just wanna)., I bought a High Point carbine in 45 ACP. I have "hunting" rifles, "battle" rifles and several pistols (3, 45 ACP and 4, 9mm). I discovered my best choice for self/home defense turned out to be the HP carbine. Neighbors down the block are much safer than my 7.62x39 or my 30-06 semi-autos and I already load for 45 ACP, it fit all my needs quite well. Mu first time out I used factory 230 gr FMJ and got consistent -2" groups at 25-30 yds. I shot cast RN, FMJ. Hornady JHP and cast 200 gr SWC. It digested all without a stutter. The only "downside" is the 10 round magazine so I bought 2 extra.

I have a nickel plated 12 gauge pump (dull not shiny), a Garand, AK 47, and a 44 Magnum lever gun that were considered for home defense, besides my pistols, and I reload for them all and have a whole bunch of handloads for them all. For my 45 ACP I have "JIC" handloads (Just In Case) that feed in all my 45 ACP guns and are as accurate as I need. The HP fits my needs the best (and the "fun factor" is up there with my 10-22 and Garand!)...
 
I don't rely on one gun. My main self defense weapon is a M1 carbine using Hornady Critical ammo. This is backed up with a 9mm. Glock, 9mm Taurus & a Sig 380 pistol
 
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Random thoughts....

Get an AR (16" middy would be my recommendation) and shoot factory ammo (if you can find any)... you might just find it a hoot to shoot and want to shoot more or stockpile for the zombie apocalypse... then set up to reload.

Reloading bottleneck rifle cartridges adds a whole new dynamic (headache or pleasure is a YMMV thing). Trimming brass, contemplating head space, proper lube (too little and your stuck, too much and you'll divot the shoulder with hydraulic pressure). If you're into the technical geek side of re-loading, you'll probably enjoy all of this.

Do you have access to a >100yd rifle range? Once you dial in a load and are getting MOA at 100 yds, shooting out the 10 ring off the bench can actually get a bit dull. Now try that at long range and the you're into a whole new ball game. Warning, it can be obsessive.

The owner of PSA has an interesting philosophy, that the best way to secure civilian access to ARs is for them to become "common use" (term referenced in SCOTUS opinions). Thus he has made it his mission to make them affordable and accessible to as many people as possible. By getting an AR you're joining the "team" and helping to secure 2A rights for all.

Did I say ARs are fun? Like... a lot of fun!

Come over to the dark side :thumbup::cool:
 
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jmorris said:
Not sure about some of the penetration arguments, would have to have some standards set.

For example, I know a 35 grain vmax, even at .22 hornet velocities of 3000 fps, won't make it through a 12oz soda can without coming apart, as evidenced by the rear portion of the can but a 230gn fmj at 900 FPS will, and a lot more at that and remain completely intact.
Click to expand...
I simply came to the realization that any round capable of quickly stopping a human, is also capable of blowing holes in your walls. If you're not willing to risk that, perhaps a non projectile weapon is more suitable for some homes. A Louisville Slugger should not be discounted out of hand.

My solution is to use appropriate ammo and hit what you're aiming at. If its a shotgun, buckshot is where its at. For pistols, buy a good quality expanding ammo. For rifles, you want something that isn't going to continue through your target with a great deal of energy, so a 5.56 with ammo that fragments is a good choice. In something like 7.62x39, get a soft point or hollow point.You don't want it escaping at lethal velocities if possible.

But most importantly, be accurate. It's the hardest one to work on, but it offers the most bang for the buck. A good shot on target is worth many times more than shots that miss. Also why I'm not a huge fan of weapons lights in the home. While some people jump on the idea that you don't want to immediately give your position away, my house just isn't that big, if I use a flashlight, you're going to know where I am. I'm more apt to simply turn on the lights in the room so I can see everything that goes on, and then I am in a much better position to be accurate. A weapon light requires you to practice your shooting in the dark with only the light to guide you.
 
Most dangerous gun in the world, at 20 ft is a12 gauge shotgun. Ya don't need 00 Buck. No 4 lead pheasant loads will do just fine. I have also heard of trap loads of 7.5 shot being quite lethal. Remember you are stopping a threat. Period. Any lawyer will tell you that. Shot in general will not penetrate a wall. I'm not sure about 00 Buck.
 
editingfx said:
1. home defense + additional range/accuracy over pistol
2. subdivision 1/2 acres
3. GA

Yup, leaning towards a 9 carbine from these comments, perhaps a Ruger PC. Yeah, not looking to take away from my next vacation to finance a Gucci gun. ;)
Click to expand...
Good luck FINDING one at this time. Took me month back when Covid was becoming a nuisance; 32 Glock mags are nice to back up the 17 rounders; that said, I also have a 12 gauge pump with side saddle
 
My answer is purposely short.

Read tests on chosen calibers going through 4 sheets of plain 1/2 sheet rock.

If you are like me, the results may not be what you expect. The ar fragmented much sooner than expected and the 9mm went much further than expected. Buckshot seemed to go and go and go...

Lots to consider and the choice is yours. Enjoy your educational road and post what you decide.

I have not chosen yet, so no preference or recommendation given.
 
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