Duty to Inform Experience

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Craig_AR

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I woke up at 5 a.m. to find two security videos on my phone of three prowlers checking for unlocked doors on my truck at 3:45 am (truck was locked and they moved on). After coming to and double checking vids I called local PD about 5:30 to report the incident. The Communications desk said I should see an officer in about 30 minutes. I hopped into the shower and dressed quickly, almost fast enough. I was finishing up when the doorbell rang; my holster was in place but did not have time to pull my shirt over and tuck it in, so the gun was effectively in open carry.
As I greeted the officer, I told him I was required to tell him I was armed. He glanced at the gun on my hip and made a face like, "Yeah, I see it... no big deal." We moved on to the report. Arkansas is "duty in inform" by law, but it is required, " when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth)." (https://handgunlaw.us/states/arkansas.pdf)
Clearly, for this (very helpful) officer, it was a minor no-big-deal incident In fact, when I started to offer my driver's license he said he did not need it.
Next door neighbor and I both had videos of the miscreants, so we gave the officer (email) stills from them and offer to provide full vids any time. Obviously, dudes all in black with masks two hours before the investigation there will be little chance of finding them. However, I think I will turn the sound notification back on for the security camera, so it will wake me real time if we get another visit.
 
Called 911 and said there were burglars on my property,, they said someone would be there in about 30 minutes. I called them back and said “Never mind, I just shot them”. Two cars were there in minutes....they said “thought you said you shot them”. I thought “you said it would take you 30 minutes to get here”
 
I got pulled over by Roboc......errr a TN state trooper many years ago right after the move over law went into effect. He was finishing up a stop and I didn’t move over so he caught up to me and pulled me.

As a courtesy I provided him all my ID immediately and informed him that I was indeed carrying and asked him how he wanted to proceed. In the most bored, deadpan, polite way he says......

“Sir did you plan on shooting me today?”
“No sir, of course not I said.”
“Then we should be able to speed this ticket right along then.”
“Well I wasn’t planning on it a few seconds ago.”
He cracked a very small smile ........ and wrote my ticket.

I always laugh at just how uninterested in me carrying that he was.
 
True story... about 20 years ago my neighbor who is a real bug on privacy called 911 and said there were trespassers in his driveway,,,,dispatch said they only had one deputy on duty that night and he was way across the county,,,Neighbor said if they didn’t show up in 25 minutes he would take care of it himself. The deputy on duty knew neighbor and that he wasn’t kidding...He gave his car everything it had and managed with lights flashing, siren screaming to get there in 26 minutes. He heard neighbors shotgun go off several times and met the two illegals running up the driveway...He loaded them into the car and started to head toward headquarters about 20 mins away....Well, the two thugs started getting their courage back and wanted the deputy to go’arrest that guy for shooting at them”. The deputy pulled to the side of the road and told them they had two choices “shut up and go to the jail” or he would take them back to where he found them...They shut up.
 
It was quite a few years ago and I had a red Corvette at the time. I was going a little fast on the way to work. I passed a Statie going the other way who, being interested in how fast I was going, turned around and pulled me over. The first thing I told her was that I was a concealed carry permit holder and that I had a handgun in the car. She asked where it was, told me not to drive so fast and sent me on my way.

In Ohio there is a legal duty to inform the officer if armed during a traffic stop. There is no duty to inform if on your own property (though I think it's a courtesy and a good idea).
 
Used to be, in TX, you could have your license suspended for failing to inform. Now it is required, but there is no penalty for failing to inform.

I still inform. They will know as soon as they run your license anyway and it has been my experience that giving them a heads up (and otherwise treating them as professionals just doing their jobs) seems to generate a surprising amount of goodwill. The past few years, every stop has ended with just a warning. Makes me wonder what goes on during a typical traffic stop.
 
In South Carolina I have been pulled over twice for Regionally Inappropriate levels of Vehicular Initiative (because I was driving like a damn yankee).

In both cases, I think there was a noticable reduction in tension when I handed a CWP in addition to my DL; perhaps they figured that I wouldn't lead with, "I'm legally armed" if I was planning to be trouble.

In both cases I apologized for my misbehaviour, and try to blend in with the natives a bit more now.
 
Sir,

''
...thing I told her was that I was a concealed carry permit holder and that I had a handgun in the car. She asked where it was, told me not to drive so fast and sent me on my way.

In Ohio there is a legal duty to inform the officer if armed during a traffic stop. There is no duty to inform if on your own property (though I think it's a courtesy and a good idea). ''

This portion is incorrect, IF you have a valid Ohio CHL. The only times a carrier has no duty to inform is first, if it is indeed NOT a stop for a law enforcement purpose or secondly, if the CHL permittee is NOT armed ''carrying concealed'' at the time the LEO is in contact.

Very common error, and to be polite I type that word as lightly as possible.
 
Since this is Legal, I'll follow up on @Craig_VA 's statements about Arkansas law. There are two notification provisions about which every AR CHCL holder should be aware:
(a) Any licensee possessing a valid license issued pursuant to this subchapter may carry a concealed handgun.
(b) The licensee shall:
(1) Carry the license, or an electronic copy of the license in an acceptable electronic format, together with valid identification, at any time when the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun; and
(2) Display both the license, or an electronic copy of the license in an acceptable electronic format, and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.
(c) The presentment of proof of a license to carry a concealed handgun in electronic form does not:
(1) Authorize a search of any other content of an electronic device without a search warrant or probable cause; or
(2) Expand or restrict the authority of a law enforcement officer to conduct a search or investigation.

Ark. Code Ann. § 5-73-315 (West)
and
... (iv) Any licensee entering a private home shall notify the occupant that the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun... Ark. Code Ann. § 5-73-306 (West)
I've had a few occasions on which I was required to notify someone that I was carrying a concealed handgun. My parents had a house here that was broken into twice while they were away, on different occasions. The alarm went off, my mother called me, and I drove over to the house. I put my DL and CHCL in my shirt pocket before I arrived, so that I would not have to reach past my pistol to get to them. On arrival, a couple of officers were clearing the house while another waited outside. I approached the one outside, handed him my cards and said something like, "Good evening, officer. My name is Spats McGee, you'll need these, and yes, I am carrying a concealed pistol. My parents own this house. You want me to turn that alarm off?" The officers were all unconcerned with my pistol.

Another time, I reported an accident. I saw a truck roll (sideways, wheels over cab) down an embankment where I was sure nobody would see him. So I called 911 and drove back to the location where I'd seen him go over, to help the officers find him. When the officers arrived, I tried to hand one my CHCL and tell him that I was carrying. His response? "I don't need that. You've got a Second Amendment Right."

Finally, my wife had a minor fender-bender. She called me and, since I'm the lawyer in the family, I 'responded to the scene.' When I made contact with the officer, I handed over my DL and CHCL, and informed. The officer just said, "Don't touch yours and I won't touch mine, OK?" (That line actually reads as more ominous than it sounded. She was pretty friendly about it.) Seemed like a fair deal to me.

By and large, officers around here aren't worried about lawful gun owners. If they have your name, they'll have dispatch run your ACIC as soon as they can. That will tell them if you're prohibited or not. If you're not, and you don't do anything to send up other red flags, they're not going to worry about whether you have a gun.
 
Was tired driving back to Norfolk in the wee hours one Monday morning, after a long weekend in my brother's woodshop working on my carbide cannon's carriage.

Got pulled over by a VA State cop for drifting across the line a couple times.

Rolled my window down and the lady comes up to my door:

"I pulled you over because you drifted across the line a couple times. You haven't been drinking or smoking any funny stuff, have you?"

"No ma-am, just tired from a long weekend on a project and trying to get back to Norfolk for work in the morning."

"OK, do you have any weapons in the vehicle I should know about?"

*sweeps her flashlight through the car as she asks*

I looked over to the passenger seat, which was fully reclined so I could lay my 6 foot cannon barrel across the seat.

I looked back at her, with her mouth agape.

"Would you belive me if I said 'no'?"

"Is that a CANNON?!?"

Then began the story of my carbide cannon project, how the barrel was constructed to model a 2/3 scale replica of a 24 pounder off the USS Constitution, etc.

She did the license, registration, insurance thing, have me a warning with a caution to pull over when I get tired.

I bet she had quite the story to tell her buddies!
 
In some states do you have to notify an officer you are carrying a weapon when you are on your "private" property? How about in casual contact like saying hello to one in a mall, or walking in a parking lot and just talking to them? Or. especially if open carrying and you obviously have a gun on your belt?

I ask this cause I am curious, and I'm too lazy to head into the state codes to find out the answer. It would mean nothing to me since I live in a state that does not require you to inform and if traveling now as a complete civilian I would just notify out of courtesy, regardless of the law.

Forgetting the local Deputies that stop by for coffee in the AM, I have also had some visits by some State vice squad detectives on a few occasions and the idea to tell them I had a handgun under my shirt never dawned on me. (Informative visits for an exchange of information on a specific subject.) And even if now retired an living in a state like MI I would never think of informing LE if they were on my property. Again, just curious.
 
I used to debate this topic all over the Internet and I don't think I ever changed a single person's mind.

What generally happens is someone has a run in with a bad cop and decides they'll never make that mistake again.

I was pulled over by a State Trooper who went off on me because I didn't inform him(no legal requirement)I was armed. A few months later I read in the paper that he murdered his wife and killed himself in a domestic violence incident. You have no way of knowing what kind of person the cop you're interacting with is.

I really don't care if it makes the cop's life easier or that it makes him more comfortable that I automatically inform him I'm armed. It's in my best interests to maintain my boundaries and assert my Rights.

Consequently I never

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Answer any question I'm not legally required to answer
Consent to a search.
 
In some states do you have to notify an officer you are carrying a weapon when you are on your "private" property? How about in casual contact like saying hello to one in a mall, or walking in a parking lot and just talking to them? Or. especially if open carrying and you obviously have a gun on your belt?

I ask this cause I am curious, and I'm too lazy to head into the state codes to find out the answer.

Yes, in Arkansas if you have a CCL, the law requires you to inform when asked for identifying information, but not in casual conversation or contact. There is no exception for being on your own private property, or for carrying openly instead of concealed. As I stated in my post.
. Arkansas is "duty in inform" by law, but it is required, " when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth)." (https://handgunlaw.us/states/arkansas.pdf)
Here is the complete subsection of the Arkansas law:
=-=-=
AR Administrative Rules Dept. of AR State Police
CHAPTER 3. License Possession Requirements
Rule 3.2 Contact With Law Enforcement
(b) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee is in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and that he or she has a handgun in his or her possession.
=-=-=-=
I highly recommend you overcome your admitted laziness and check HandGunLaw.us for the actual law where you are.
 
In TX, you inform. I have had to inform on several occasions with no problems. One officer asked if I would shoot him. Another said, just keep your hands on the wheel until I tell you. Another asked if he could disarm me after a major accident (idiot ran a stop sign into me). I could understand that as tempers might flare. No problem. One laughed and said, This isn't CA where they flip out over a gun. All were polite.

I believe in informing as you never know if the gun is discovered and the officer over reacts. The Philando Castile case should give shivers to all and esp. minorities. I think if you were the latter and the wrong kind of officer saw an undeclared gun, it could go very badly.
 
The Philando Castile case should give shivers to all and esp. minorities. I think if you were the latter and the wrong kind of officer saw an undeclared gun, it could go very badly.

Philando Castile did inform the police. I don't see what his ethnicity had to do with it. Unless that cop treated people of other ethnic backgrounds differently in similar circumstances
 
The point was that police panic, sadly. Not informing could be even worse if the gun was a total surprise. As far as race, that's your opinion and we won't pursue it here. I put it forward as a risk to be considered.
 
I still inform. They will know as soon as they run your license anyway and it has been my experience that giving them a heads up (and otherwise treating them as professionals just doing their jobs) seems to generate a surprising amount of goodwill.
This has been my experience as well. In one instance, the officer literally looked bored out of his skull at the notion of my informing. In another, after I informed, the officer asked me, "without reaching for it", where it was located. In all instances, the officers knew before they got to my window that the owner of the vehicle was a CHL / LTC holder.

In my two decades of living here, I've never had an officer in Texas who actually appeared taken aback at the notion of an armed motorist, and certainly none once carrying in a car didn't require a CHL/LTC. At this point, it's just assumed.
 
There for a while I got popped a bunch. Likely because of what I drove and who I hung around. Loud stereo, flashy cars, and having fun with several groups who liked to push the law. I was always well aware of where I stood legally so I ALMOST never got any tickets or much more than a hassle. It got bad enough that I had a lawyer (friends dad) on speed dial and would call him and put it on speaker with the phone on the dash before I pulled over in a safe spot. I got my concealed carry permit in the midst of these shenanigans and kept my carry permit with my drivers license and had them out and ready along with proof of insurance and registration in hand hanging out the window by the time the officer got there. I immediately informed that I had permit, had a weapon in the vehicle, that I was on the phone with legal representation and that audio was being recorded. The letter to local PD stating that harrassment charges and lawsuits would be discussed calmed things down a lot. I never got the impression that they cared about me notifying that I was permitted or that I was carrying, but I did occasionally get an “I know” when I advised that I was a permit holder which told me it probably came across when they ran license plates. The one time I wasn’t carrying I didn’t notify, I got a ticket for going 35 in a 35 (yep you read that right) and I got that one straightened out in court. They always seemed to be interested in searching the vehicle, and I never consented unless they gave a reason. I did consent if they gave a logical reason though.
 
In some states do you have to notify an officer you are carrying a weapon when you are on your "private" property? How about in casual contact like saying hello to one in a mall, or walking in a parking lot and just talking to them? Or. especially if open carrying and you obviously have a gun on your belt?

I ask this cause I am curious, and I'm too lazy to head into the state codes to find out the answer. It would mean nothing to me since I live in a state that does not require you to inform and if traveling now as a complete civilian I would just notify out of courtesy, regardless of the law.

Forgetting the local Deputies that stop by for coffee in the AM, I have also had some visits by some State vice squad detectives on a few occasions and the idea to tell them I had a handgun under my shirt never dawned on me. (Informative visits for an exchange of information on a specific subject.) And even if now retired an living in a state like MI I would never think of informing LE if they were on my property. Again, just curious.

Depends on how the laws are written. Some states aren't clear.

If it's official business, then it's pretty much a "yes" for those that require it. Otherwise use your best judgement.
 
Called 911 and said there were burglars on my property,, they said someone would be there in about 30 minutes. I called them back and said “Never mind, I just shot them”. Two cars were there in minutes....they said “thought you said you shot them”. I thought “you said it would take you 30 minutes to get here”
While that worked in your favor, where I served filing a false report, as you did on a recorded call, is a crime. It probably is in most jurisdictions.

I think you got away lucky in that instance that no action was taken. Had the officers had an accident rushing to your house to render assistance, you probably would have been charged.
 
As a slight diversion, when I was a kid in NYC, it was said that if you called the police and they didn't show, you called and said an off duty cop was being assaulted. Then a zillion cops would show up. I don't recommend such - just mentioning this.

As I said, I never had any troubles with TX law enforcement. One nice rural sheriff didn't give me a speeding ticket and warned me of the state troopers farther down the road.
 
While that worked in your favor, where I served filing a false report, as you did on a recorded call, is a crime. It probably is in most jurisdictions.

I think you got away lucky in that instance that no action was taken. Had the officers had an accident rushing to your house to render assistance, you probably would have been charged.

It's an old wive's tale. It never happened
 
As a rule if I'm dealing with law enforcement not on my property and I am armed I do as a courtesy and a safety measure. The last thing I want is to have an adrenaline fueled law enforcement official pointing his firearm at me and shooting me because my firearm gets uncovered by mishap. With the exception of one time did all things get messed up.

Ok so at the time I was working at a gun shop in a not great neighborhood. I was there for the opening and closing of the shop. I would get done around 10pm. At the time the parking lot was being redone so the underground parking area would be full by the time I got to work. This meant I had to on the far side of the lot. My edc consisted of either a Sig 220 or Kimber ultra carry on my hip and a S&W airweight .38 in my front right pocket. When I left the shop the .38 got moved to my coat pocket as I walked across the poorly lit area to my vehicle. Once in my vehicle I would either tuck the Smith in between me and the seat belt because I had two stop signs and a stop light to go through before hitting the highway.

On the night of the incident I had decided that it would be better to tuck my .38 under my left leg for the trip home due to being pulled over the previous week because my headlight was busted. That stop went smooth I informed the officer that I have a carry permit and that I was currently armed. He asked me where the firearms were and I explained to him that had the small revolver in between me and the lap belt. I then let him know that my I'd and insurance is in my left front pocket. He instructed me to very slowly retrieve my information. As I did this the Smith came untucked and fell between the door and my seat. The officer did his thing and I went on my way. So after that I figured I'd put the revolver under my left leg. I had stopped for a red light and as it turned green I saw the patrol car enter the intersection going the opposite direction. As soon as I saw his tail lights flash I knew he was turning around because of that darn headlight. Before his cherries came on I was pulled over in a spot that he could box me in with my window down and car off. I didn't see the other squad car pull in behind me as well. A Sgt. approached my window and positioned himself square in my window and asked me if I knew way he pulled me over. I explained to him that yes it was because of my headlight and that one of his officers gave me a fix it ticket last week. I'm thinking ok all I need to do is show him the citation I was given and I'll be on my way.

The Sgt. looked at the front end of my car and squared up to my window and landed forward. "Do you have your driver's license and proof of insurance with you?" I then informed him that I do have that information and that I also have a carry permit and am armed. He asked where the firearms were and I told him that I had a small revolver tucked under my leg. It was at this point the whole interaction changed. He angled himself off and his hand went to his firearm. He then asked me if it was loaded. He must have seen the smoke coming out of my ears as a bit back on the first comments that wanted to fly from my mouth. He quickly corrected himself by telling me not to answer that because of course it is that's why you told me about it. I politely informed him that I would have informed him either way. He had me put both hands out the window and open my car door. I compiled and waited for further instructions. He asked me the location of my I'd and other information. I told him that it is on a money clip in my front left pocket. He had me slowly retrieve my info out of my pocket and place it on the roof of my car. At this point I know I'm going to be cuffed while he runs my information. As he's cuffing me it dawns on me (I know should have told earlier) I didn't have a chance to tell him about the Sig on my right hip. As he's putting the cuff around my right wrist a let him know that I do have a pistol on my hip. He lifts up my jacket and grabs the butt of the Sig and tugs. I tell him how to operate the holster to release the firearm. He was quite frustrated at this point some he puts my jacket back over and says he'll just assume that it too is loaded. Then walks me to the back of my car where the second officer is standing hand on his firearm. The Sgt. tells this officer that I have a pistol holstered on my right hip and that they were not going to mess with it for now. As the Sgt. steps away from us to make his radio call and walk around my car the officer that is with me pulls my coat up and starts tugging at my Sig. At this point I figure you what I'm going to pimp this holster. The SERPA was just coming out. So I told the guy about the release and how comfortable the holster was even with a full size gun like the Sig.

By now my information has been relayed through dispatch and the Sgt. let's the other officer know that everything checked out. Then he asks me about the case on the passenger seat. I felt a little embarrassed when I explained that it was a Colt .380 unloaded and cased. The Sgt asked me why I thought it a good idea to drive around with a firearm under my leg. I explained to him my work situation and that I felt it was safer to leave the firearm under my leg rather than try to mess around trying to put it in a pocket holster while seat belted doing 70 mph.

He then gave me a lecture about driving with a gun under my leg. I explained to him it was not my regular routine but it was like he didn't hear a word I was saying at this point. As he uncuffed me he informed me that he wanted me to place my hands on top of my head and to not move until all three of the officers had cleared the scene. This is when I saw the third officer pacing back and forth with his hand wrapped around the but of his firearm and the hood on his holster disengaged. At this point I'm hoping not to get shot by mistake and a little annoyed that I have to wait for all three of them to leave before getting back into my car even though i pulled over i s pot that gave them the ability to box me in had the car shut off even before they got out of their vehicle with the keys out of the ignition. I disclosed the fact that I'm a permit holder and at the time armed. And my information came back clean.

Oh and am out where everyone can see that I'm pulled over by three squads handcuffed and now standing behind my car with my hands on my head waiting for the police to leave. I wasn't upset about how this interaction went down until I got home. It was the only bad interaction I ever had and I did everything I could to show the Sgt. that I was trying to make his job easier.
 
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I used to debate this topic all over the Internet and I don't think I ever changed a single person's mind.

What generally happens is someone has a run in with a bad cop and decides they'll never make that mistake again.

I was pulled over by a State Trooper who went off on me because I didn't inform him(no legal requirement)I was armed. A few months later I read in the paper that he murdered his wife and killed himself in a domestic violence incident. You have no way of knowing what kind of person the cop you're interacting with is.

I really don't care if it makes the cop's life easier or that it makes him more comfortable that I automatically inform him I'm armed. It's in my best interests to maintain my boundaries and assert my Rights.

Consequently I never

Volunteer information
Answer any question I'm not legally required to answer
Consent to a search.

Step one when stopped by L/E is the attitude test!
Yes, you have rights and responsibilities to yourself and others.
Passing the attitude test works in your favor every time. Especially if a firearm is involved. Being cited or arrested for a firearms issue can be expensive. You want the $800 an hour attorney!

It's your money!
 
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