M1 Garand: WHY is it so expensive?

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You know, the supply/demand formula also wasn't helped when Garands were given away by the tens of thousands as foreign aid to now-enemy regimes like Iran, or demilled by Uncle Sugar hisself.

As for some very rough (and highly debatable) numbers, the Garand cost about three times as much as a Mauser K98k variant to produce (about $90 vs. $30 in 1940s dollars, depending on who made what and when); about three times as many Nazi K98s were made as Garands during WWII (14.6M vs. 5.5M, including Korean War Garand production.) Look at original K98k prices today, multiply by three and compare with the Garand.

That's an over-simplification, but add to this calculation the historical appeal of its honored service in WWII and Korea, plus the fact that it functions quite well even by modern standards and is a hoot to shoot. Karl and Ian at InRangeTV make the case for the Garand being obsolescent instead of obsolete. Also, thanks to its magazine/clip system, it gets around legal restrictions on semi-auto rifles in parts of the USA.

There weren't whole Garand rifles made as later reproductions, however there were cast receiver composites with a mix of new and surplus parts sold under Springfield Armory and Santa Fe brands. The Chinese could probably produce a whole (and probaly lousy) M1 Garand the way they've done their M1A knockoffs. Ruger makes the Mini 14 receiver using a casting process and could probably pull off a 1:1 Garand reproduction if they thought it would be a money maker -- they sort of tried with their XGI project but that got too expensive before the bugs could be worked out. However, even with newer production methods, the Garand is and probably will remain a costly rifle to produce. The gas cylinder/front sight base and that bent op-rod aren't cheap parts either. Maybe if demand stays high and originals hit the $3K mark, Ruger might try again, or Springfield might contract another production run. Properly done, a cast receiver could function just as well as a machined forging, but if the product cost of a reproduction is as much as a collectible original without the added appeal of real collectibility, would the market support it?

I wish Garands were cheaper too, so I could own more than one.
 
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The M1 Garand must have been a very expensive rifle to make.
At the time--30s through 50s--steel was expensive and labor was not. So, it was easier to have not merely single-point, but single-process machining. So, a machine tool would be set up, with fixtures and jigs to perform a single process to a part. The part would then move to the next machine for the next process.

Today, labor is expensive and steel is cheap. That labor cost goes to processes, too. So, the labor to set up a single-point machine that performs every possible operation with the tool loaded into it, adds to the cost. Numeric Control (NC) and Computerized Numeric Control (CNC) are all ways to optimize the labor cost of setting up single point machines.
CNC machines are not a be all-do all. If you are engaged in production manufacturing, you are still better off with multiple machines instead of tool changes on a single machine (the multi-function, multiple tool, machines are not cheap). One of the aspects of modern NC production machining is the labor required to track tool wear and rigidity of fitments and jigs. All of which are labor intensive.
 
So, to the OP, what is your definition of expensive? I don't think you have yet answered that question. A luck of the draw service grade is $750 shipped. What wood stocked, semi-automatic, center fire rifle can you buy today that is a lot less expensive than that? If you're looking at prices on the open market then you have to do the same for any other similar rifle, and those will range from reasonable to ridiculous. I don't see $750 as being prohibitively expensive in today's world for a quality rifle.
 
All I know is, $750 or $1000... I want one. But, I also want a 1903, a 1917, have my eye on a sweet Trapdoor.... there are so many neat old US weapons. None are cheap.

One of these days.
 
This GB auction for a CMP M1 is about to end, so it might be fun to see what a service grade rifle someone bought for $750 now can sell for:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/883318847

Pretty nice mid-grade CMP Service Grade M1 Rifle.

- Late 6-digit.
- pretty good bore numbers.
- milled trigger guard.
- Nice arsenal USGI SA stock, sights, Bbl..
- Locking pins look great.

Nice rifle.

...just not worth $1,200 to me.

This is what I mean about ordering Three(3) - and then casting off the ones that don't sing to you.

There appears to be no trouble gettin' rid of'em for cost..."+."




GR
 
So, to the OP, what is your definition of expensive? I don't think you have yet answered that question. A luck of the draw service grade is $750 shipped. What wood stocked, semi-automatic, center fire rifle can you buy today that is a lot less expensive than that? If you're looking at prices on the open market then you have to do the same for any other similar rifle, and those will range from reasonable to ridiculous. I don't see $750 as being prohibitively expensive in today's world for a quality rifle.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. Using the Browning BAR Mark II Safari in 30-06 as the closest, current production, civilian counterpart to the M1 Garand that I can find, the Browning MSRP is $1279. That's a a lot more than $750 for a service grade Garand from CMP, but that service grade Garand is going to have a pitted receiver and dull wood on the stock. Sure, a lot of woodwork and hand rubbing with linseed oil will bring the stuck up to something close to what's on the browning, but there isn't anything you can do about the pitting on the metal. As an alternative, I suggest we use an earlier Garand from CMP or DCM that has clean, not corroded metal as one might find at any gun show, LGS, or private sale. That gun, as a shooter grade (meaning non matching part/mixmaster or incorrect parts for year of manufacture -in other words not highly prized by collectors) is going to sell from $1k to $1500. That gun, save for the quality and shine of the woodwork, is going to be a closer match to the new Browning and the two guns are a lot closer in cost.
 
I don't think this is a fair comparison... but that service grade Garand is going to have a pitted receiver... but there isn't anything you can do about the pitting on the metal....

Untrue, my friend.

Have a half freezer full of CMP Service Grade M1 Rifles - from 6-digit to 5.8M.

... not a pit (0.0) on any of'em.

And have also been to the Mother Ship and handled and inspected countless more.

Now, the CMP has the "Field Grade" rifle, and offers what they call the "Special Rack" rifles, that are re-arsenal'ed pitted receivers w/ new Bbls.

But the Service Grades are generally sweet.


And a "Browning BAR Mark II Safari in 30-06" never made the jump into Sainte Mère Église.

... or stopped a bayonet charge on Saipan.

:cool:




GR
 
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Untrue my friend.

Have a half freezer full of CMP Service Grade M1 Rifles - from 6-digit to 5.8M.

... not a pit (0.0) on any of'em.

Now, the CMP has the "Field Grade" rifle, and offers what they call the "Special Field" rifles, that are re-arsenal'ed pitted receivers w/ new Bbls.

But the Service Grades are generally sweet.




GR

Interesting. Last time I read the description for the various grades of rifles, all of them listed pitted receivers. That must have changed in the last year or two. They must have found some really great condition guns out there someplace. I thought they were down to the bottom of the barrel.
 
I have three...2 Service Grade (Manufacturer) Specials, one a SA, one a HRA...2010 CMP descriptions, never fired, 1 Special Grade that I built at the CMP Advanced Maintenance Class with a Nov. 1943 refurb receiver and period correct parts with a new CMP stock set and CMP new Criterion barrel, blessed by Custom Shop instructors. Mine have no pits, corrosion, the one I build shoots to 2 MOA with HXP ammo. Bids considered.

Harry
 
Interesting. Last time I read the description for the various grades of rifles, all of them listed pitted receivers. That must have changed in the last year or two. They must have found some really great condition guns out there someplace. I thought they were down to the bottom of the barrel.

"May"... but have yet to see any.

The "Special Rack" rifles are promised and near guaranteed.

Still, cosmetic for a "shooter" rifle.


The 2010-11 Greeks were sweet, as were the Danes before them.

Was concerned RE: the Philippines - especially if you've seen the vid they made about'em - Yikes!

... but hear good things are coming out of the Mother Ship.

(course, you may not hear about the bad stuff...)


The Browning BAR Mark II Safari... is quite a bit lighter, however.

:D




GR
 
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I didn't make myself clear. When I said "earlier guns," I didn't mean lower serial numbers. I meant sold to the public at an earlier date. The guns from the 90s were put together using the best of an ample supply of parts. The guns being sold today are being put together with the last of the left overs.
 
Yeah, but that "cosmetic" means a lot, especially when you're comparing it to a new gun.

They're (Special Rack) $650 - completely re-arsenal'ed w/ a new Criterion Bbl.

Most pitting is blind against the wood, anyway.

Shoots new.


This is a current $750 Service Grade from the above post that, just today, went on GB for what the Browning retails for:

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pix966953636.jpg




GR
 
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I didn't make myself clear. When I said "earlier guns," I didn't mean lower serial numbers. I meant sold to the public at an earlier date. The guns from the 90s were put together using the best of an ample supply of parts. The guns being sold today are being put together with the last of the left overs.

CMP Service Grade M1 Rifles - are generally inspected/test-fired/sold.

They are not "parts" guns.

Out of spec parts will be replaced, and new furniture will be installed on woodless Bbl'ed Receivers.

But Field and Service Grade Rifles... are.

Got a couple w/ the USMC and U.S. Army Arsenal hang-tags still on'em.


"Specials" are a different story.




GR
 
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OP/Hier Kommt die Sonne:
Was the movie Band of Brothers described as being just as influential as Saving * * ?

Alex Clayton:
If Century Arms (or any US firm with similar "character") were to produce brand-new Garands retailing at $700, knowing how most of their >>US-made<< AKs have "price point" cheaper, soft grades of steel, Not Interested :(.
 
The M1 Garand is the most artificially inflated surplus rifle. We know exactly how many we've made, is that a factor in it's high price or not? Or is it just American nostalgia alone that is the driving force?
Personally, I think it was Saving Private Ryan that drove the prices up. It was a major American movie that brought a era of WWII fascination in the American public. Look at all the WWII video games that got made after that.
The M1 Garand has such a cult following.

Because people will pay it. It's not any more complicated than that.
 
I know people do not want to hear this but, price on anything is only effected by what people who want it will pay. Many remember when the Garrard and the M1 Carbine were something seen everywhere and fairly cheap. Those days are long gone and will not come back. The only way to get them cheap would be mass manufacture. The problem with that is if someone did the sales would tank and then what? Not enough people want one to set up and produce large quantities for years to pay for the cost to tool up and do so.
The Carbine a few have tried. It was a dumpster fire. There are a lot of clones out there that work but, far too many of them do not. People who get one that does not work do not lead to more buying. Again it would be simple to crank out working clones of the Carbine and this would drop the price but, then market would tank. There is just too many things out there that sell in mass.

One of the very few to succeed is Fulton Armory.

They produce a 100% GI compatible carbine with some USGI parts and a receiver milled from billet:

766-EEA6-E-46-FD-4992-B17-D-A5774-EA7-C86-D.png

Some experts consider these as good if not better made than the originals. But they are very expensive. They are almost universally praised by buyers as extremely high quality and are very reliable.

The bottom of the heap of current makers is a tie between Auto Ordnance/Kahr and “Inland” (not the original Inland, but a new company just using the name). Quality control from both outfits is very suspect. The new Inland produces a more faithful copy in many regards but many owners have reported severe functioning issues.

Those are the only three current manufacturers in the country at this time. Fulton is stellar and the others are not worth your time. The best bet is an original USGI gun and there are still deals to be had. The online gun auction sites create an artificially inflated markup for these weapons and in actuality there are some great examples at gun shows and brick and mortar shops all around the country, you just have to look for the deals and don’t expect the computer to deliver them for you.
 
Except for the limited production Garands such as M1C's and M1D's, or early production, Garands that were never updated, I've never thought the Garands from CMP were SO EXPENSIVE. They are priced quite well for a piece of history.

Just remember, even though only about 6 million Garands were produced, a bunch are at the bottom of the ocean so the supply is definitely limited.

Of course, an endorsement from General Patton does not hurt with the resale value.
 
Except for the limited production Garands such as M1C's and M1D's, or early production, Garands that were never updated, I've never thought the Garands from CMP were SO EXPENSIVE. They are priced quite well for a piece of history.

Agreed. Anytime I hear someone say that Garands are expensive, I immediately think of the guns being resold at private sale. i haven't seen one locally for under a grand in years.
 
It's also the last USGI semi-automatic battle rifle you can own w/o an FFL.
I'll go a step further to say that AFAIK it's the last USGI battle rifle that doesn't have full-auto capability. Once select-fire became the standard for military rifles, the milsurp pipeline dried up. What's out there now is all there's ever going to be.
 
The M1 Garand is the most artificially inflated surplus rifle. We know exactly how many we've made, is that a factor in it's high price or not? Or is it just American nostalgia alone that is the driving force?
Personally, I think it was Saving Private Ryan that drove the prices up. It was a major American movie that brought a era of WWII fascination in the American public. Look at all the WWII video games that got made after that.
The M1 Garand has such a cult following.

Nothing artificially inflated about the price. Whatever prospective buyers are willing to pay for the rifles are EXACTLY what they're worth.

35W
 
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M1 carbines may be coming back at lower prices. A**&&^% load of them were found and purchased for resale in Ethiopia.
I can't wait to see what that batch looks like. I bought my two from CMP a rack grade and a service grade, $550.00 and $650.00. I wouldn't sell either for $1200.00. The last large Gun Show I went to had several Garand's and the lowest price I saw was $1700.00. One was $2200.00, but to be fair it had a genuine copy of an M-1 bayonet and sling.
 
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