Can a rifle be custom made in any caliber/cartridge even if that cartridge has no SAAMI specs?

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A Browning BAR would be nice.
The 308 action and magazine might be too short to work with a conversion to 7.7x58 Japanese.
The chamber for a 7.7x58 is a bit wider, but a bit shorter than a 30'06 so I don't know if that would work, either
I can get an Arisaka barrel, they are for sale from rifles broken down for parts.
Maybe get a BAR and rebarrel with the Arisaka barrel?
Is that even something that can be done?
 
valleyforge.1777 said:
Can a rifle be custom made in any caliber/cartridge even if that cartridge has no SAAMI specs?
I want to get a custom made bolt action rifle in 7.7x58 Japanese Arisaka. I don't want to use a rifled action taken from one of the milsurp rifles, I want a completely newly made, custom made rifle. I have some reasons why I want to do this, but my question is can it be done, and if so who would do it? One reason I want to do this is because I want a left handed bolt rifle, and the milsurps are all right-handed. Another reason is that I want a nicely made rifle with a free-floated barrel where I can mount a scope the traditional way (above the receiver). Can not really do that with the Arisaka milsurps because the chamber gas holes are where the front scope mount would go. Biggest reason I want to do this is that I have managed to get a couple of pieces of brass, some primers, and powder and some Hornady 0.312 bullets and the custom made dies for reloading, so I do not want to get into a whole different caliber like 30'06 or 308 or 270. I'd rather stick with the 7.7x58.
The T99 7.7 Arisakas have a 1 in 9.5 twist and I'd be wanting to use standard 7.7x58 brass with 150 grain Hornady soft point bullets, 0.312 diameter. I reload for a milsurp 7.7 Arisaka and I had custom reloading dies made from fired brass to match the chamber of my milsurp rifle. I'd like to try to get the newly made custom rifle to have a chamber that matches closely enough to be able to use those same dies.
I have a T99 that I mounted a scout scope to with a no-drill mount from S&K Mounts. I do NOT want to pull this rifle apart and turn it into something customized. I want to keep it in the current configuration, but I'd like a nice, custom made one that can use the same rounds.
So, is this possible? As far as I know, no one makes a commercial version of this caliber/cartridge. This would be entirely custom chamber, custom rifling.
Click to expand...

This kind of stuff is done all the time. Custom rounds are designed in people's heads, they get a reamer made, pick and action and barrel and have it put together. Custom dies are made too.

You are going to need an action, barrel, stock and someone to put it together. They are going to need a reamer and headspace gauges. You can have the reamer made - PTG lists the 7.7x58 in their reamer list so it's not even a custom reamer. At this point, it's just a custom rifle. There are many shops out there that will do this for you.

I'm not sure what diameter barrel you need for this bullet but 1:9.5 isn't unheard of and you could always go with a 1:9. I would look around for the barrel first. If you can't find that for the price you want, it may not be worth it. Once you have the barrel, just about any action should do - talk it over with a gunsmith. It comes down to how much money to you want to spend?

The 7.7x58 looks to be a bit shorter than the .30-06 so any .30-06 length action should work. The base diameter of the bullet is slightly larger (I'm working from Wikipedia dimensions) so the bolt face may need to be opened up. This may require some extractor work depending on the action you choose.
 
Legionnaire said:
My first thought was a Remage, too, having built several. The challenge may be finding a barrel blank in the right caliber. Looks like it’s the same bore as the .303 British, but that doesn’t look like a standard bore from any of the barrel manufacturers I looked at.
Click to expand...

PacNor lists it and they are up and running again. They may not have 303 tooling yet...
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Does it have to be a bolt action? Single shots are both left and right handed. Looks to me that you could get one of those Henry single shots in .308, and run your reamer into it. Shazam! Does/did Ruger make the #1 in .308? Now that would be a class act. People be like, "what caliber is your rifle". You be like, "7.7". They be like............................."huh???" It would be great. I get it.
Click to expand...

If the single shot route is acceptable, MGM can make a custom Encore barrel for you in just a few months. The nice thing about this option is that the platform requires no further gunsmithing -- just install the barrel and shoot.

I just did a test run using MGM's ap: a 25" chrome-moly, factory taper, matte blue barrel, .311" 1-10 twist, d/t for open sights plus 4" picrail scope base came to $540 plus tax and shipping. Pick different sighting options and the price can drop a bit; stainless likewise adds a bit:

https://matchgrademachine.com/product/build-a-custom-barrel/

The one they made for me last year, using a wildcat reamer I supplied. The price came to $400 and change and they did a superb job:
ShadowMaster.jpg

You'd still need a reamer and Encore receiver (about $400ish) + stock -- if you consult with MGM beforehand, they might have some ideas on sourcing a 7.7 Japanese reamer that they could rent for less than the purchase cost.
 
valleyforge.1777 said:
A Browning BAR would be nice.
The 308 action and magazine might be too short to work with a conversion to 7.7x58 Japanese.
The chamber for a 7.7x58 is a bit wider, but a bit shorter than a 30'06 so I don't know if that would work, either
I can get an Arisaka barrel, they are for sale from rifles broken down for parts.
Maybe get a BAR and rebarrel with the Arisaka barrel?
Is that even something that can be done?
Click to expand...

Frankly, I don't see how any rational person could not try it.
 
If you are going to convert a BAR you should figure on a .30-06 or .270. Might want to borrow one and see if the 7.7 will fit the magazine. There have been some strange things done with BARs but are class 3 projects; finding somebody to fool with it would be the problem.

I'd ask Pac Nor if they would make me a Savage barrel in 7.7 if I sent them a reamer.
 
Jim Watson said:
If you are going to convert a BAR you should figure on a .30-06 or .270. Might want to borrow one and see if the 7.7 will fit the magazine. There have been some strange things done with BARs but are class 3 projects; finding somebody to fool with it would be the problem.

I'd ask Pac Nor if they would make me a Savage barrel in 7.7 if I sent them a reamer.
Click to expand...

To clarify,
Are you talking about this BAR:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle

Or this BAR:
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/bar/current-production.html

The latter would not necessarily need a Class 3 FFL. Theres even a modern repo of the classic M1918 which wouldn't either
 
The Japanese did make a prototype copy of the M1 in 7.7. Wonder what the price of one of those would be. Maybe less than the price of a BAR plus all the conversion work. !!!! Or...run that reamer into the chamber of a M1 in .308. No work needed on the magazine, and load it to M2 ball pressures. Good to go!! :)

However, I think both the BAR and M1 would be considered right-hand actions.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
The Japanese did make a prototype copy of the M1 in 7.7. Wonder what the price of one of those would be. Maybe less than the price of a BAR plus all the conversion work. !!!! Or...run that reamer into the chamber of a M1 in .308. No work needed on the magazine, and load it to M2 ball pressures. Good to go!! :)
Click to expand...

That would be an interesting rifle for sure. Not sure if I love it or hate it, but it's interesting.

The OP could probably load 308cal bullets with the dies he currently has. I know it's not uncommon to be able to do so with other cartridges commonly in the .312 range.
 
I meant the semi-auto civilian Browning BAR, although of course the military version would be a BETTER option, but not one that is going to happen.
I guess I have a lot to think about.
I can get the Arisaka T99 barrel that would be original and thus .312 caliber, with 1 in 9.5 twist. Would then need to decide what direction to go, but since my highest priorities are left hand action, nice trigger, and free-floated barrel I think a bolt rifle action with a custom build up or something like a Savage left hand bolt in 30'06 re-barreled to an Arisaka barrel would be the way to go. Probably would splurge to get an aftermarket walnut stock for the Savage anyway.

A semi-auto version of a customized rifle to get me to 7.7x58 Japanese would be something to think about, but I really want the good trigger and free floated barrel and easily mounted scope.
 
If the OP just wants to be able to run the same ammunition in his custom target/hunting rifle as he runs in his classic milsurp, then a .308 bore isn’t going to get him there. He’d have to have two piles of ammo then, using some of the same brass, defeating the purpose of the project. He needs a .312 bore to do this properly.

I really like the idea of the TC Encore.
 
gotboostvr said:
To clarify,
Are you talking about this BAR:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle

Or this BAR:
https://www.browning.com/products/firearms/rifles/bar/current-production.html

The latter would not necessarily need a Class 3 FFL. Theres even a modern repo of the classic M1918 which wouldn't either
Click to expand...

Sorry, I did not mean a 1918 and SOT gunsmith.
I grade modifications as to class 1, commonly done and readily available; class 2, specialist work, expensive; class 3, hard to find anybody willing to take time away from regular work to fool with it; class 4, not feasible.
 
A .308 barrel will work with .310-.312" bullets, as long as the chamber is cut correctly in the area where the neck of the cartridge resides, so that the neck of the case releases the bullet properly. A 7.7 reamer would (should) have the correct dimensions. Then if one went to a long/longish throat, that would relieve any excess pressure of the oversize bullet entering the bore. Or, the cartridge could be slightly (slightly, just a little) loaded down. That would enable .303" bullets to be used in both rifles, or both a .308" and .303" barrel. But, if one is going to rebarrel an action anyhow, it probably is not that difficult to find a barrel in .303".

Also, there are smiths who reline barrels, so one could start off with just about any barrel that fit the action, and have it re-lined to .303", and chambered to 7.7.
 
I don't think an Arisaka barrel will rethread to fit a more popular action, its major thread diameter is at or near other actions' and its pitch is different. Its shank may not be long enough to just start over and rechambering the typical Japanese chrome lined barrel would be a challenge.

If you just must, look for a barrel; most are .311" 10 twist which would work fine, and buy your gunsmith a reamer.
 
I've read that it is actually really tricky to rebarrel an Arisaka itself with a barrel from another rifle for the same reasons. Getting it clocked in just right is supposed to be pretty impossible.
 
So we're it my project and I was trying to stay above water, I'd simply have McGowan make an unchambered savage or Remage .310 barrel (listed in their catalog) and drop it, along with an 06 savage or 700 on a smith to have installed and reamed (honestly I'd just do it myself). Or I'd ask McGowan if they would just do the whole install and reaming.
I would NOT try scaveng an Ari barrel, it's cost prohibitive and probably not functional. I gave a buddy of mine my last 7.7 Ari along with a spare barrel, and I've had quite a few other guns apart and none would be an easy swap if doable at all.

The other issues would be bolt face, but the 7.7s have fit in every "standard" bolt face I've got to try them in.
If feeding becomes an issue switch to a single stack AI magazine system, but they arnt that much different than an 06 so I'd expect them to generally feed ok.

Huh, I just had a thought....if you could get a Ruger American 7.62x39 barrel and put it on a long action, all youd need to do is ream the barrel to 7.7
That would actually work for any of the x39 barreled rifles that have long action counterparts.
 
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Original 7.7 brass was a slightly larger rim diameter than 30-06, but all the modern manufactured 7.7 reloadable brass so far as I know uses a 30-06 rim diameter so that they can use the same tooling during manufacturing as 30-06, 8mm mauser ect...

I have a 7.7 arisaka that I reload for with new PPU brass and I load it all using a 30-06 shell holder, so should be fine with a standard 30-06 bolt. So really just need a .311 barrel blank which is commonly available, reamed to 7.7x58, which is also commonly available, and put it on a 30-06 or 270 length action of your choice. I’ve actually thought about doing this also because I’m pretty fond of the 7.7 cartridge myself.
 
valleyforge.1777 said:
Just target shooting out to about 300 yards, trying to get better with marksmanship, but with a ~30 cal instead of something smaller, and the reason for 7.7x58 is just literally so I do not have to stock up on reloading supplies for a new caliber. i already reload for many different calibers and rarely have as much time for that as I'd like to, and I have accumulated supplies for 7.7x58 for use in my T99 Arisaka, so, this caliber/cartridge wins for me.
Click to expand...

my advice is not to do this, unless you just have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket.

yes, you can start with a custom action and have a fantastic barrel chambered in 7.7x58 and have a better trigger. but that's going to cost a few bucks and for that money you're going to expect a certain degree of accuracy. ultimately, it may be the BRASS that prevents you from achieving this. WW2 era brass isn't going to win any benchrest matches. and neither is PPU. Somewhat surprisingly, you can get norma brass, at about $1.60/case but that sort of defeats the entire reason you are selecting this cartridge in the first place: your stash of components

also keep in mind, if it doesn't go the way you want and you decide to sell, you will have something almost nobody else in the world would pay for. the combination of cartridge and left hand, etc means you won't even get half of your money out of it.
 
gotboostvr said:
I'm thinking a CZ 550FS with a reamed out 527 barrel would be about the coolest if it'd work.
Click to expand...
Don't think it would be doable. Major dia on the threads for the 527 is M25 and the 550 is M26. I don't think you could turn down a new shank from the larger portion.

Be pretty cool tho
"what's that?"

"Cz527/550"

"New dangerous game round?"

"Naw it's chambered in 7.7x58!"

"....wait, what?"
 
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