Gunsmith sight install nightmare

The minute anybody applies for a FFL he is an industry insider and, since ATF wants FFL holders to have the FFL for a business, they are "professionals". There is no standardized testing from any gun smith school, like in Germany. In Germany it takes three years of hands-on training and school, followed by a standardized test to be an associate. To start your own business a continued education and becoming a master gunsmith is necessary.

Here, you order an impressive leather apron from Brownells and then destroy a perfectly good pistol in an attempt to install a sight set.

PzGren said:

The minute anybody applies for a FFL he is an industry insider and, since ATF wants FFL holders to have the FFL for a business, they are "professionals". There is no standardized testing from any gun smith school, like in Germany. In Germany it takes three years of hands-on training and school, followed by a standardized test to be an associate. To start your own business a continued education and becoming a master gunsmith is necessary.

Here, you order an impressive leather apron from Brownells and then destroy a perfectly good pistol in an attempt to install a sight set.

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Sounds like this guy only ordered the canvas apron!

gunner419 said:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I finally after some fairly heated discussion and fact based reasoning got them to pony up. I sold them the damaged pistol for full price and went to my local shop and picked up a new one. Since I got them to pay for a new gun I ate the cost for a replacement set of sights. This ended up working out in the end but if you live in the Toledo, OH area be wary of any work you want to give him. He's a small operation running out of the basement of his house called Old Trooper Gunsmiths.

That being said I'm open to suggestions for a truly professional sight install. I know Cajun Gunworks will do it, possibly even Dawson Precision themselves but I don't want to sit around and wait 4-6 weeks to get the gun back.

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then buy a sight remover/installer, and do it yourself.

otherwise, ship it out?

ask either company if they can turn this around quicker, as it's your only gun?

buddyd157 said:

then buy a sight remover/installer, and do it yourself.

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A sight pusher helps but the sights will most likely still have to be fitted by dressing the bases down. Its not just set up the pusher and shove them in place. A bud asked me to install sights on his S&W Shield. The sights would not go in as sent. The bases had to be carefully filed to get them started and then filed just a tiny bit more so the pusher could slide them in place. And when I got finished there wasn't a mark on the gun.

If you don't know how to do this then send it to a gunsmith who knows what he is doing.

as somebody mentioned just get a sight pusher. for $50 it makes the job easy. driving out the front sight roll pin on my pcr was uneventful with the right roll pin punch which i already had as part of a set(i think 1/16). it was getting the rear sight out that caused all the problems. if your replacement sights are hard to start ,rub the base in random patterns over sandpaper retry and repeat as needed. i like the NC star. i only used it once but was easy to use. there are a lot of videos out there you can watch.

If youre planning on doing a bunch, a sight tool for your specific gun is the way to go. Ive done a lot of sight sets on SIG's and Glocks, and the tool (I use MGW) makes it a simple job, and it also allows you to fine tune your zero, and right at the range without disassembling the gun.

A sheet of emery and a hard flat surface is often a necessity when you install the new set. As was mentioned, just run the base across the emery a few times and try again. More often than not, you usually don't even get all the finish off the bottom of the sight. No need to file the sight or the dovetail, nor do you want to, so don't even get one out. .

And just a clarification on why you don't want to file, when you run the base of the sight across the emery, you remove material evenly, and the more you remove, the narrower the base also gets, and equally so.

You may want to have a set punch handy too, as if you got a bit overzealous with the emery, and the sight is actually loose, you'll likely need to dimple the base of the dovetail a bit to tighten it up.

If roll pins are involved, and set of roll pin punches are the way to go.

The right tools for the job, and a little knowledge, and doing sights is a pretty easy job, and something anyone whos slightly handy can usually do.

Sometimes waiting a bit for it to be done right is worth every minute it’s gone.

Glad you got a new gun, I was afraid it was going to go to court.

Stay safe.

Good to hear you got that worked out and that it basically cost you the set of sights. I wouldn't mind so much having to wait on getting someone else to install the sights, like Cajun Gun Works, if it meant I was getting it done right.

AK103K said:

And just a clarification on why you don't want to file, when you run the base of the sight across the emery, you remove material evenly, and the more you remove, the narrower the base also gets, and equally so.

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That is great advice.

I'm glad he paid for a whole new gun-Hopefully he takes this as a sign he should not be calling himself a gunsmith. I did some horrendous things to some guns starting out (at 14) but they were my own guns! I also at that point decided to get some professional 'training' by J. B. Wood and his excellent series of gunsmithing books by Gun Digest, and later by Jerry Kuhnhausen. Later on the Army gave me some very thorough training at Ft. Jackson's Armorer School, and working on weapons in my Arms Room, HHT, 2/9 Cav's Arms Room, and 707th Maintenance Activity's Armorer Shops. Add in working as a gunsmith in a few shops over the years after I got out, and I turned out all right.
But that guy needs to find another line of work.

That's a sad story. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people doing work these days (home improvement, auto repair, and all kinds of stuff) that either have no skills and ability, or just don't give a d**n. I've long been to the point that I do almost everything myself. On the rare occasions where I hire something done (re-roofing the house, for example), I'm almost always disappointed in the quality of work. One of the few companies that I know of locally that does an outstanding job every time I need them is a father/son HVAC company. The downside is that they get paid at a rate that seems roughly equivalent to a heart surgeon.

I've had more bad experiences than good with gunsmiths. I now only use well-known long-established shops. No more basement guys for me. My big problem is if the guy screwed it up in the first place how can you trust him to fix it right? I've just walked away from a couple. Life is too short.

gunner419 said:

Thanks for the replies everyone. I finally after some fairly heated discussion and fact based reasoning got them to pony up. I sold them the damaged pistol for full price and went to my local shop and picked up a new one. Since I got them to pay for a new gun I ate the cost for a replacement set of sights. This ended up working out in the end but if you live in the Toledo, OH area be wary of any work you want to give him. He's a small operation running out of the basement of his house called Old Trooper Gunsmiths.

That being said I'm open to suggestions for a truly professional sight install. I know Cajun Gunworks will do it, possibly even Dawson Precision themselves but I don't want to sit around and wait 4-6 weeks to get the gun back.

Click to expand...

LOL, I saw your handle and said to myself, "Old Trooper?" I haven't had the, uh, pleasure of dealing with him, but a friend had a minor repair, that I could have done a much better job of, done and he messed up a roll pin to the point it had to be drilled out. I don't really know exactly what he used on it, but it for sure wasn't a roll pin punch.

You were not wrong, I'd have felt the same way. The thing that concerns me about some who buy the apron and call themselves gunsmiths, is what PzGren mentions. There is no standardized training, standards, or testing required in the good old US of A for one to hang out a shingle and start doing gunsmith work. I have encountered some of them. I am not a gunsmith, but have been to several armorers schools, have books, pushers, drifts, a padded vice, other gunsmith tools, etc. Over the years I've done a number of sight changes on my own pistols, sometimes milled the slide dovetails myself, but this amateur/me has never damaged sights, and worse yet a slide, like the "gunsmith" you dealt with.

At least you achieved the best possible outcome by getting him to pay for your new pistol...

I6turbo said:

That's a sad story. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people doing work these days (home improvement, auto repair, and all kinds of stuff) that either have no skills and ability, or just don't give a d**n. I've long been to the point that I do almost everything myself. On the rare occasions where I hire something done (re-roofing the house, for example), I'm almost always disappointed in the quality of work. One of the few companies that I know of locally that does an outstanding job every time I need them is a father/son HVAC company. The downside is that they get paid at a rate that seems roughly equivalent to a heart surgeon.

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I mean, really, all you have to do is watch a YouTube video and you're an expert, right?! Has this guy heard of roll pin punches? Brass punches? Brass hammer? Not using a hammer unless needed? Wow. I've made some mistakes on home builds for myself, but this guy makes me look like Mozart.

Rock185 said:

You were not wrong, I'd have felt the same way. The thing that concerns me about some who buy the apron and call themselves gunsmiths, is what PzGren mentions. There is no standardized training, standards, or testing required in the good old US of A for one to hang out a shingle and start doing gunsmith work. I have encountered some of them. I am not a gunsmith, but have been to several armorers schools, have books, pushers, drifts, a padded vice, other gunsmith tools, etc. Over the years I've done a number of sight changes on my own pistols, sometimes milled the slide dovetails myself, but this amateur/me has never damaged sights, and worse yet a slide, like the "gunsmith" you dealt with.

At least you achieved the best possible outcome by getting him to pay for your new pistol...

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Rock,

there is something besides standardized training. It's talent. Installing sights is not at all rocket science and one has to be clumsy to not being able to do so without destroying a gun.

When someone tries to paint a horse and an innocent child, when asked what it is will excitedly bark "woof woof", it is safe to guess that the artist lacks the dexterity to allow his hands to do what he has in his mind.

Good to hear you got him to do the right thing.