The .44 AMP Auto Mag: initial thoughts and observations

I haven't seen an AM in person since the 70's and I'm in the business. A buddy had one back in the day and I remember pulling a muscle trying to rack it.

"I haven't seen an AM in person since the 70's and I'm in the business. A buddy had one back in the day and I remember pulling a muscle trying to rack it."
When I got mine a few years ago, I couldn't get the bolt back without help. That thing was filled with burrs and sharp edges, but once I got all that crap polished out, it's fine.
In the late '70s to early '80s when I was working on them, this was a very common problem, easily solved with stones, small buffing wheels and patience.

Im going to have to start keeping my eye out for one.

Japle said:

Zelwood, It's not necessary to totally disassemble the gun and I don't advise that you try. Since the company changed hands several times, quality control was, let's just say, spotty.
Quite a few have burrs and tool marks that effect functioning, but if your gun has been fired, it might have been tuned or at least broken in a bit.
Degrease and lube and give it a try. A light coat of a standard gun oil on the moving parts is usually all you need. Be sure to lightly lube the action rods and the rear of the bolt. Be sure the bolt moves without hanging up in the cocking piece.
FWIW, long ago, I had a few boxes of CDM ammo and that crap wouldn't function in any of the AutoMags I worked on.

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John, thanks for the reply. I don't really want to disassemble the gun but seeing a video of someone who knows what they are doing disassemble it is something I would find interesting and may help me diagnose issues and replace parts if that becomes necessary. I just fired the gun for the first time and it was nothing but jams. Failure to feed mostly but a fair amount of failures to extract. I lubed the gun with FP-10 before going to the range and used 3 different types of ammo with identical results. My next step is to try polishing the feed ramp with some Flitz and see if that helps. If anyone has any suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Dragonfly said:

Zelwood, I was in a similar quandary as you when I bought mine. I knew of Auto Mags but knew almost nothing of them. There’s a dedicated forum at amtguns.info where there is a treasure trove of useful posts and helpful, knowledgeable members. The Auto Mag is a quirky, unique pistol that’s unlike any other gun I’ve owned, although it’s also one of the most fun to shoot.

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Thanks, I will definitely check out that site.

Zelwood, it might be the feed ramp, but more likely there are rough areas on the locking lugs and/or the corresponding areas in the barrel extension. Also, the rear of the bolt and where it moves in the cocking piece are often rough.
Burrs on the extractor hook will cause case rims to hang up, robbing energy and causing the symptoms you describe. Make sure the extractor moves freely.
Retracting the bolt takes a good bit of force, but it should feel smooth - heavy, but smooth.
Be sure your loads are hot enough. The AutoMag won't function 100% unless it's fed ammo loaded near max.
The early guns went through bolt rotation pins like popcorn. Later, they got the heat-treat right and solved that problem. Kent Lamont and I bitched relentlessly about that.

John, thanks for the info. Yesterday is the first time I ever fired an Automag so I can't 100% say whether they were max loads. It certainly had some recoil. I used all 240 grain, some were semi jacketed soft points, some were hollow points. The HPs definitely had more recoil. I own a S&W model 29 and the recoil felt similar. Any suggestions on what to use to smooth out the burrs if I have any? I used Flitz today on the loading ramp and it seemed to do a good job. I do have to say, the loading ramp didn't appear to be perfectly symmetrical. Is that normal?

Thanks Dragonfly, The shape of the feed ramp on yours looks pretty similar to mine. As far as ammo, I was using 240 grain Hornady XTP that I purchased from SBR Precision. I also purchased 2 boxes of ammo from Reed's Ammunition & Research. 1 box is marked 240 grain Hollow Point, the other is marked 240 grain Soft Point. There are no other markings on the box. They all had the same issues although the recoil was least with the Soft Points and heaviest with the SBR Hornady Hollow Points. It seems like I need to take the gun down a little further, clean, polish and lube all contact surfaces and give it another try. So far, I haven't taken the gun down any further than removing the barrel. I have been trying to find a video or something that shows me how to do that. All I have at this point is a copy of the instruction manual which does give directions on how to remove the recoil rods and bolt.

Dragonfly, that feed ramp isn't too damn smooth, that's for sure.
My standard "quick-and-dirty" method of smoothing feed ramps is to pinch off small pieces of sandpaper - starting with 400 grit for the really rough ones and working up to 800 grit to finish - and rubbing them on the ramp with a pencil eraser. Once you get to 800 grit, the ramp should be mirror-smooth. If the roughness doesn't come out with a few minutes of 400 grit rubbing, see may last sentence below.
Zelwood, I use fine stones to knock off any burrs and then polish with a Dremel and metal polish on a felt drum or wheel. Do not take off any metal other than burrs! If you think tool marks are causing a problem, surface-polish with 800-1000 grit paper or a Dremel with fine polish. Don't try to remove the tool marks, just polish the contact surfaces.

The Auto Mag is definitely an interesting piece. This is my last one, and posted a video taking out to the range for the first time.

Local (ish) gun store has one.........4,299 dollars

crestoncowboy said:

Local (ish) gun store has one.........4,299 dollars

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Depending on what model (Pasadena / North Hollywood / El Monte / Jurras), it may be a good price. Also if there are any accessories like extra mags, ammo, casings, hard case, dies etc will definitely add to the price.
I've been a fan of the Auto Mag since Sudden Impact. I was a kid when it came out, and never lost the urge to add one to the inventory. This is an older pic, but may try tp get an updated family photo at some point.

Big44mag said:

Pasadena

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Says it's a first year. Aug. 1971.

I know very little of them. I do have a automag 22 magnum. I had never seen one in the wild until I went in a store somewhere around Johnson city TN/ Bristol VA/TN back around 2005. Was a two story apartment building with a pawn shop/ gun store in the top. He had several of the ones like you pictured.

Never seen one since till the one I just saw.

I have a TDE from No. Hollywood in .44 AMP. I also have a 10 1/2" .357 AMP barrel to go with it. Although I have only ~ 225 rounds through the .44, it has never jammed either with CDM , Norma, or any of my handloads.
I have only run about 75 .357 AMP loads through it .. all of them handloads and have had similar results. The pistol is heavy and cumbersome but would be good for hunting. I killed a wild hog (boar) with the .44 barrel but have not used it much since.

If you want to buy mine, forget it.

crestoncowboy said:

Says it's a first year. Aug. 1971.

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I'm curious, do you have a phone number of that shop?

The serial numbers bounce around a bit as to when exactly they were shipped. Harry Sanford kept the first 100 frames for himself and for vanity numbers. The first guns were marked Pasadena and first built July 26, 1971. The Pasadena guns were shipped from August of 71 to April, 72. They went bankrupt in May of 72 and were evicted out of the Pasadena facility. The last Pasadena gun to ship was serial number 3874, after that the serial numbers would designate a North Hollywood, then El Monte, High Standard, Jurras, Ed O'Neill, Sanford, and possibly a couple of others. There were several older frames from Pasadena that were used as collateral for loans that would come back at later dates to be manufactured at different locations as well. The new Auto Mag is currently being made by Auto Mag, Ltd in Loris South Carolina. They bought the rights, old frames, slides, diagrams, drawings, tooling etc from Harry's son Walt several years ago.

The pic above of the one in the case has a 6.5" Jurras 44AMP barrel, an 8.5" Jurras scoped 357AMP barrel, 10.5" TDE 44AMP barrel, and the one on the top left is a Bob Barbasiewicz 357AMP barrel that was made in North Hollywood, even though they technically didn't have a facility there.

DM~ said:

I've had two of them, shot them quite a bit and glad to have sent them down the road!!

I still own the RCBS dies to make the cases, if anyone is interested in buying a set.

DM

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Do you still have the case making dies for sale

wcapps10363 said:

Do you still have the case making dies for sale

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I'm pretty sure they are still around here somewhere...

DM

Dragonfly I've always been enamored with this gun. Is there any commercially made ammo for these made Anymore since I don't reload? Look kind of like an AR-15 bolt type bolt. Thanks for any info.



QUOTE="Dragonfly, post: 11633698, member: 148176"]View attachment 941667

“Sweet sister Sadie, where the hell did you get that?” That’s the lined uttered by Horace King when he first spots Harry Callahan’s Auto Mag in the 1983 movie “Sudden Impact.” I must say I’ve been asking myself the same question! I certainly did not expect to ever own one of these pistols—I’ve never even seen one for sale, but when I saw this listed for sale online a couple of weeks ago I was intrigued—it was not cheap, but I did some quick math about what I could sell to come up with the funds, and after some quick research on the pistol I made the leap!

I was initially apprehensive—I did not know a whole lot about the pistol but did read that early owners sometimes were fond of overly powerful loads that could damage the pistol. The seller, though, was super helpful and sent lots of pictures to ease my concerns, and when it showed up this week it looked even better in person.

You could write a book about the history of the Auto Mag—literally, since there have been books written about it, so I’ll just give a quick summary. The pistol’s design dates from the late 1960s, when Harry Sanford and Max Gera had the idea to develop a semi-automatic handgun chambered for a round equivalent to the .44 Magnum, using a round based on a cut-down .308 Winchester case, although Gera left the company before the pistol went into production in 1971. The original company went into bankruptcy a year later and over the next 10 years the pistol went under ten more different names before finally ending production in 1982. Mine’s marked as a “High Standard” Model 180 made by TDE, which stands for Trust Deed Estates, one of the other operating companies.

There’s a new effort underway to resurrect the Auto Mag with some design improvement—it seems to be progressing pretty well (better than the abortive efforts to bring the Bren Ten back!) although pricing announced in 2018 was $3500US, or $4600 Cdn.

OK—enough history, now onto the pistol itself.

It’s big—no question, but more manageable than the Desert Eagle, with a grip that’s a bit smaller and a weight that’s about a half pound less. I’ve got small hands and have no problem with the trigger reach. I’ve got no snap caps or fired rounds so I’m reluctant to try the trigger pull—a replacement firing pin would be likely almost impossible to find.

It’s is a fairly unique design—a recoil-operated action that uses a rotating bolt for lockup using dual recoil springs (like the Desert Eagle, although the Auto Mag has two separate recoil rods instead of the single unit with the Desert Eagle).

Here’s a (slightly blurry) picture of the bolt.
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This is the bolt head, looking not night and day different from an AR15 bolt.
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The larger lug on the bolt is impinged on by the “accelerator” to give a boost to the bolt when its cycling. You can see the accelerator on the underside of the barrel just in front of the chamber area.
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Here’s a better look at it— it’s the piece with the curved left side.
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The complete upper—barrel and all—moves back a small amount under recoil, and the accelerator impacts the frame and rotates backwards and the top part of the accelerator contacts the bolt lug and gives it a boost.

Here you can see the dual recoil rods underneath the barrel. The trigger is grooved and adjustable for overtravel, although I’ll be leaving it as is!
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The recoil rods thread into heli-coils in the cocking piece,
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and the recesses in cocking piece allow it to interface with lugs at the rear of the bolt:
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The front sight is plain stainless steel machined into the rib.
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The rear sight is black and serrated, and adjustable for windage and elevation:
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There is some factory ammunition available in the States but I couldn't find any in Canada so I'm taking this opportunity to finally get into reloading—luckily enough a set of RCBS dies and some Starline cases came with the pistol. I've got everything I need except powder which is slowly making its way from Ontario. I'll update the thread once I've had a chance to take it out.

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