Be careful about showing gun when responding to knock

Howland937 · Nov 20, 2020

I don't have a doorbell or dog. Occasionally someone will knock on my door, whether it's a neighbor needing a hand with something, UPS needing a signature, etc...I can peek through a different window and see who's there. If I don't know them and they knock a 2nd time, I will ask "who are you and how can I help you?" while standing about 10 feet away.
I won't pretend I'm not home in case they are contemplating a burglary, but I'm not opening the door unless they give me really good reason.

I live in a semi-rural area. A few years ago, someone knocked on my door at about midnight. Looked out the window and it was a young guy, early 20's. I asked what he was doing and he claimed a couple guys chased him and tried to run him off the road, so he pulled in the first driveway that had an outside light. At about the time he was asking/begging me to call the Sheriff, another truck pulled up in front of my house and 3 guys jumped out and headed toward my porch.
The kid at the door hopped the porch railing and took off for the field across the road. I call the Sheriff's Dept and while I'm on the phone with them, the 3 other guys start vandalizing the kid's truck...in my driveway. Dispatcher asks if I have a gun. Of course I do. "If you want to, go out there and order them off your property. Tell them we're on our way"
I replied that I for sure don't wanna be in my yard with a gun when the deputies show up.
"Oh, it's gonna be at least 45 minutes before we get anyone out there. You can run them off or you can go back to bed and we'll call when we get close. Up to you"

earlthegoat2 · Nov 20, 2020

See, never should have answered the door. Haha.

Meeks36 · Nov 20, 2020

HB said:
I often think about this with guns in vehicles etc.

For example, I know a lot of people keep a pistol between the seats/under their seat while driving. If you get in an accident (way more likely than a defensive shooting), a cop or other motorist may see the gun when they walk up to your car.

Had this happen a few months ago. Only my pistol did exit my truck. It was however in the passenger side floor board. Had it wedged between seats. Rear-ended at a red light. I believe dude was texting and driving.

D.B. Cooper · Nov 21, 2020

Hangingrock said:
Proper lighting offers the home owner an advantage.

That can get pretty darn expensive. I recently had some electrical contractors come out and do an estimate for security lighting. One light to illuminate out to about 30 yrds over my driveway, same in my back yard, plus two more on the side of my house to illuminate my side yard. That would still leave a large part of my yard dark. Three thousand dollars. I'm now in the market for night vision gear lol.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

earlthegoat2 said:
Usually I talk to them through the door. I usually have my gun on me all the time. I go across the hall to look to see who it is and end up out of sight in the bedroom. If I don’t know them but it seems normal I talk through the closed door. If it seems abnormal I pulled my gun while still in the bedroom so it is not seen.

Why would you take your gun to the door. What would you do with it?

earlthegoat2 said:
When someone knocks, I am known to hustle across the hallway from living room to bedroom to ID the person at the door and then pull my gun or not from my holster and answer the door with the gun behind my back.

Same question.

I carry indoors all the time, but I will not rely upon a firearm to protect me at the door, open or locked.

Nor do I want anyone to see it at the door.

This subject has been discussed ad nauseam here.

This post is from three years ago next week.:

When you have no plan

Also watch this:

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

bdickens said:
Two words: peep hole.

Puts the eye in a bad place.

earlthegoat2 · Nov 21, 2020

Kleanbore said:
This post is from three years ago next week.:

When you have no plan

Also watch this:

All good advice.

I’m obviously not as good at this kind of stuff as the rest of the folks here.

If your wondering about the conspicuous ignoring of your questions, well I have nothing more to say. The advice you have is usually good but for some reason the delivery grates against my brain. I am positive we would be friends if we knew each other in person.

Even as I write this you make a response like this:

Kleanbore said:
Puts the eye in a bad place.

It just doesn’t seem like there can ever be an answer, right wrong or otherwise, that isn’t still criticized mercilessly. There is no compromising with your answers. How is anyone supposed to live a life? With security measures, there always has to be compromise. I mean, is someone really going to shoot you in the eye through the peephole when they see it go dark from the other side? Maybe. I have seen it in movies. But wow, dude.

I used to go unarmed into the sketchiest is places where I live to interact with the public for negative reasons. (Process server. At the time there was a lengthy beauracratic process to legally be able to carry during the course of your duties. It still is to carry while being a PI as I also found out). I still have the extreme situational awareness I needed then. Almost to the point where I believe I might not ever need to go anywhere armed. I still carry.

I’m not a tactical dummy. (I think). I am apparently a legal dummy. (I admit, I could learn a bit more). In the end, right or wrong, I think about my safety. Maybe I am going about the wrong way but I am learning a bit. Maybe if I hung out here more I will.

I’m not being patronizing here. I do appreciate your comments. They are good advice. Nothing ever seems good enough though. That is fine, an ideal and extreme baseline is beneficial.

Howland937 · Nov 21, 2020

earlthegoat2 said:
I mean, is someone really going to shoot you in the eye through the peephole when they see it go dark from the other side? Maybe. I have seen it in movies. But wow, dude.

I'm not sure it has to necessarily be someone getting shot in the eye through a peephole. It's just, to me, if they're aware that you're looking them over through the peephole, estimating where the rest of you is becomes pretty easy.

earlthegoat2 · Nov 21, 2020

Howland937 said:
I'm not sure it has to necessarily be someone getting shot in the eye through a peephole. It's just, to me, if they're aware that you're looking them over through the peephole, estimating where the rest of you is becomes pretty easy.

My statement was hyperbole so yes, I agree with you. Things get really extreme in here though.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

Howland937 said:
I'm not sure it has to necessarily be someone getting shot in the eye through a peephole. It's just, to me, if they're aware that you're looking them over through the peephole, estimating where the rest of you is becomes pretty easy.

Good put.

Bad people have been known to stick things through a peephole.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

earlthegoat2 said:
The advice you have is usually good but for some reason the delivery grates against my brain.

Do not take it personally when we try to encourage people to consider risks.

I once answered the door with a gun behind my leg. A also saw nothing wrong with going downstairs to investigate a nose. A gun does not stop gunfire.

earlthegoat2 said:
Maybe I am going about the wrong way but I am learning a bit. Maybe if I hung out here more I will.

I'm sure you will. Stick around

Situational awareness can alert one to a potential threat that may then be evaded. It cannot defend against an attack, should it happen.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

cjwils said:
My thought is that if I respond to noise in my house or yard or to a loud knock on the door, I need to think about not showing a gun until I am certain there are no cops there.

Here's more to consider.

Read Posts #1, 7, and 17 of this thread.

How Many Mistakes Did This Homeowner Make?

The homeowner could have bee arrested and charged.

He could have been tried.

He could have been convicted.

But more important than any of those, had the people at the door (a friend of mine and I) been violent criminals, we could easily have disarmed him, murdered him, and murdered anyone else in the house.

He made one very serious mistake--he treated his gun as a talisman.

GBExpat · Nov 21, 2020

cjwils said:
Be careful about showing gun when responding to knock

Upon reading that @SUBJ my brain automatically applied a "DUH!".

psyopspec · Nov 21, 2020

If I get an unexpected knock after the sun goes down, I'm not answering until I check the door cam. Then I would either ignore them, or use the camera to ask who they are and what they wanted.

Gun doesn't even figure into the encounter directly. Though I'll likely have one in-hand, I'll be on the other side of the house and nowhere near the door.

bdickens · Nov 21, 2020

Kleanbore said:
Puts the eye in a bad place.

Doesn't spy on you or your neighbors, collecting mass amounts of data and storing it in GoogleZon's cloud either. The same GoogleZon who will roll over any time the .gov comes asking and turn it all over to them. Nor does a peep hole provide a potential entryway into your wireless network - the same wireless network that you're doing your online shopping and banking with.

Not every bad guy who comes after you does so with a gun. Some do so with a laptop and a skimmer.

You're WAY more likely to get hacked than robbed.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/08/amazons-ring-perfect-storm-privacy-threats

https://www.newsweek.com/ring-amazo...words-easy-hacking-internet-connected-1477442

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-hacks-ring-camera-8-year-old-girl-s-bedroom-n1100586

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

bdickens said:
Nor does a peep hole provide a potential entryway into your wireless network - the same wireless network that you're doing your online shopping and banking with.

There are so many other entryways that plugging that one would be futile.

I never put my eye to a peephole.

Sistema1927 · Nov 21, 2020

*****Disclaimer: Do not try this unless you know the officer very well*****

Many moons ago, while serving as a volunteer police chaplain, I knew most of the officers working my part of town. One day, I had just finished cleaning and reassembling a 1911. Just then, my dog went crazy, and I looked out back. Straddling my fence, with his pistol drawn and holding on to the power pole for balance, was an officer I knew. In the center of my yard a young man was spread eagled on the ground.

I went to the back door, called out to the officer, and asked if he needed any help. The recently cleaned and reloaded 1911 was in my hand pointing down. The officer asked if I could cover the perp, and I told him that he wasn't going anywhere while coming to a low ready two hand hold. This allowed the officer to re-holster, climb down off the fence, and cuff the suspect.

I then gave the officer my address so that he could have his partner pull the car around to the front, and unlocked my side gate. After the suspect was in the car we high-fived all around, and the officer told me that he had chased the suspect through back yards for several blocks. He was surprised to see me, and especially pleased that I was armed.

So, while rare, there might be times when you want to greet the police with a gun in your hand.

bdickens · Nov 21, 2020

Kleanbore said:
There are so many other entryways that plugging that one would be futile.

That's a real headscratcher...

Why lock your doors if someone could break in through the skylight?

Kleanbore said:
I never put my eye to a peephole

I get what you're saying, but a peephole is infinitely better than just opening the door for god-knows-who.

Not everyone can afford cameras. Let's not make perfection the enemy of good enough.

9mmepiphany · Nov 21, 2020

bdickens said:
Not everyone can afford cameras. Let's not make perfection the enemy of good enough.

I would offer that a home security camera currently defines "Good Enough".
Perfection is a linked camera, door and gate system with 360 degree lighting system (of the entry/door) activated by motion/thermal sensors

Here is a very affordable home security camera for < $35...I'm not recommending it, it was just the first that popped up on a google search
https://www.amazon.com/Security-Sur...sourceid=Mozilla-search&sr=8-3&tag=mozilla-20

shafter · Nov 21, 2020

It's kind of scary to think that there are so many cops out there who might start blasting at just the sight of a gun. I know it happens but geez, I've never worked with anyone who was that jumpy. Must be hiring the wrong type of people in those states.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

shafter said:
It's kind of scary to think that there are so many cops out there who might start blasting at just the sight of a gun. I know it happens but geez, I've never worked with anyone who was that jumpy. Must be hiring the wrong type of people in those states.

An officer responding to a call about a man with a gun will be on edge. But one need not be on edge to reasonably perceive an immediate deadly threat when seeing someone with a gun.

Would you recommend a smile and a tip of a hat?

No one should ever have gun in hand when approached by anyone else, or when approaching anyone else, unless one believes that the need to use it is likely to present itself.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

bdickens said:
I get what you're saying, but a peephole is infinitely better than just opening the door for god-knows-who.

A peephole will not prevent that.

We've seen cases in which the person in view appears benign, while people out of view wait unseen to commit the crime.

JTHunter · Nov 21, 2020

When (and IF) somebody comes to my front door after it is fully dark (varies by season), I am usually on my computer. A .25 ACP mousegun is within arm's reach and the couple of times this has happened, I stand to the side of the door and gap the miniblind to look out. The door has two locks, one being a deadbolt, and the storm door is also locked. That lock isn't real good and I have had to modify the catch on the frame for the storm door to catch as high winds used to blow it open occasionally. In addition, I added two "hook & eye" catches to the door and frame. Each are about 12" from the top or bottom corners making three contact points. If, after asking who it is while I peek through the blind, I can then choose whether to open the door or not and pocket the mousegun.

Kleanbore · Nov 21, 2020

JTHunter said:
When (and IF) somebody comes to my front door after it is fully dark (varies by season), I am usually on my computer. A .25 ACP mousegun is within arm's reach and the couple of times this has happened, I stand to the side of the door and gap the miniblind to look out. The door has two locks, one being a deadbolt, and the storm door is also locked. That lock isn't real good and I have had to modify the catch on the frame for the storm door to catch as high winds used to blow it open occasionally. In addition, I added two "hook & eye" catches to the door and frame. Each are about 12" from the top or bottom corners making three contact points. If, after asking who it is while I peek through the blind, I can then choose whether to open the door or not and pocket the mousegun.

Fix the lock. Strengthen the door. Think about what you would try to do with that .25 Automatic,

JTHunter · Nov 21, 2020

The lock itself is OK. I just had to shim the catchplate on the frame about 1/4" so the door caught it securely. The hook & eyes are there to keep somebody from prying the storm out of its frame too easily. The .25 is just to scare off some ne'r-do-well or at least to make them duck.

Be careful about showing gun when responding to knock

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