Help with 9mm powder

Would you specify your loads with primer, powder qty and bullet seating depth. That may help identify your issues. I have used CFE Pistol in the past and generally found it to shoot pretty good in 9mm, but I could recommend others if I understood you load a little better.

packetloss said:

looking for ... 9mm powder that is accurate, clean and a smooth recoil profile, preferably with low-medium target loads

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If you are looking at low-mid target loads, you should be looking at WSF/BE-86 and faster burning powders as slower burning powders tend to produce accuracy at high to near max load data.

Take a look at this Speer load data that is sorted by higher velocity to lower velocity and you should be able to separate out better suitable powders by velocities they achieve (With 124 gr bullet, you want to look around 1050 fps for 130 power factor loads ... And if that velocity is high-to-near max range, powder burn efficiency will likely be better than 1050 fps being near start charges that will produce more sooty loads that may not be accurate).

9mm 124 gr - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf


These are groupings of pistol powders I use by burn rate. For lighter target 9mm loads, you want to use W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol and faster powders. For full power higher velocity loads, WSF/BE-86 and slower burning powders.

packetloss said:

Is there a powder for 9mm that will check off all my boxes?

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9mm powder that is accurate, clean burning with smooth recoil profile, preferably with low-medium target loads?


For low-medium target loads, I would consider these: WST, Target, Titegroup, Sport Pistol, N320, W231/HP-38, WSF, BE-86. (BTW, here's thread on WST with published load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/)

If I had to choose one powder, W231/HP-38, Sport Pistol or N320. BTW, these are powders I like and use:

• W231/HP-38 - Used to be my reference powder for 9mm (Now Sport Pistol) as it metered with around .1 gr variance, produced good accuracy but is temperature sensitive if needing to make power factor and limited in achieving velocity.

• Titegroup - Yeah, I like Titegroup for 9mm as it produces more accurate loads than W231/HP-38, meters comparable, less temperature sensitive, achieves higher velocities.

• IMR Target - While larger flake powder that doesn't meter as well as W231/HP-38 with .2+ gr variance, produces more accurate target loads.

• Sport Pistol - Meters with less than .05 gr variance for me, cleaner burning.

• Promo - The "reblended" powder meters better, cheapest powder, produces decent accuracy for general purpose range load that is good for carbine loads using blow back action (less sooty cases than slower burning than W231/HP-38).

• WSF - My reference powder for full power loads that meters around .1 gr variance, produces good accuracy even at lower mid level load data but reverse temperature sensitive.

• BE-86 - My new reference powder for full power loads that meters well, produces better accuracy than my reference loads. If you shoot 40S&W also, my new favorite 40S&W powder.

Vitavouri powders are the cleanest burning pistol powders that I have shot.

For 9mm I use various burn rates depending on what I am doing and firearm. For VV powders in 9mm, I have use as fast as N310 to as slow as 3N37.

I like WSF.
One of the reasons is the recoil impulse. (more push less snap)
My match load is 4.4-4.5gr of WSF with a RMR 124gr MPR around 1040fps.
(under listed start charge but still decent case fill and I have shot 10000+ of them, wihth no issues)

A faster powder Clean Shot will have a "snappier" recoil fell than a slower powder, some people don't care but you mentioned you preferred a slower impulse
As far as 9mm Clean shot is on the fast end of the range, CFE-P is on the slow side.
As you discovered with True Blue something more in the middle of the range would be a good choice for what you are after.
So maybe something faster than True blue but slower than Clean Shot (Clean shot is rumored to be the same as AA#2)
HP38/W231 (same powder different label) or W244 might be a good choice.
If you want to spend a few extra $ N330 works well in 9mm and is very clean.
(N320 is about the same speed as clean shot so N330 or N340 would be a better choice)

Sport Pistol might also be a good choice, but is on the faster side.

Burn speed # is the first column. (varies by chart but for example)
26 Accurate Arms No. 2 (think Clean Shot)
27 Ramshot Zip
28 Hodgdon HP-38
29 Winchester 231
30 Alliant 20/28
31 Alliant Unique
32 Hodgdon UNIVERSAL
33 IMR, Co IMR UNEQUAL
34 Alliant Power Pistol
35 VihtaVuori N330
36 Alliant Herco
37 Winchester WSF
38 VihtaVuori N340
39 Hodgdon Hi-Skor 800-X
40 Ramshot True Blue
41 Accurate Arms No. 5
42 Hodgdon HS-6
43 Winchester AutoComp
44 Hodgdon CFE Pistol

BE86 is not on this chart but it's burn speed is around Power Pistol.
Lots of people like it for 9mm.

my recommendation would be Power Pistol. it does all you ask in my experience, but more in the medium-high range. I personally use Bullseye in the light range. Its dirty, but the dirt tends to break off easily and doesn't tie up the gun at all. For really light loads I use Red dot, and its not too dirty.

One way to a much cleaner gun is to use lead-free primers.

For 115/124 grainers it's hard to beat W231 for easy recoil and less muzzle blast.
It will do top end on 115s.

3.9 to 4.0 grains of tightgroup with 115 grain rmr bullets at 1.090 are my accurate plinking loads. They burn clean and have very mild recoil.

I like Accurate #2, especially for short barrels. Fast burn and you won't get max velocity. VV N330, BE-86, True Blue as already mentioned.

BE86 and Power pistol are close, BE86 is less flashy than Power Pistol if it matters to you, I think it might be a bit cleaner as well.
Out of the ones you listed above N330 will be the cleanest, but about 50% more cost wise and harder to find at your LGS, not normally an issue when ordering. (of course things are crazy now)

Accuracy wise for me WSF and N330 were to close to call, N330 was cleaner but more $.
Both felt about the same recoil impulse wise.

Please let us know what you get and how it works out for you.

For a light 9x19 load as mentioned Accurate #2 would be worth a try, I use #2 mostly for 9x18 Makarov but it should work well for light loaded 9x19. I find #2 is a cleaner and better metering than Bullseye. #2 will likely be easier to find than W-231 and Bullseye just my 2 cents.

CFE pistol has always been a clean shooter for me, perhaps the soot on your cases are produced because the case is not sealing completely due to a light charge. CFE P usually performs better in mid to upper loads. My go to powder if I could only have one is BE86 however. Clean, accurate, and very little if any discrepancy in a one tenth variance either way in grain weight.

I'm a big fan of True Blue in 9mm with 115gr fmj. I think it meters great (which gives excellent chrono numbers), burns plenty clean for me, and is reasonably priced around here. Makes for very accurate loads.

I will agree with the lead free primers being the biggest part to a clean load. I read a article about Federal lead free primers, I believe. It was amazing how clean the guns were compared to regular primers.

To me it doesn't matter that much. I'll shoot 300 to 500 rounds at the range, then go home and clean the gun. If it still shoots good with that amount of rounds in one trip, with no malfunctions, then it's clean enough. Finding the accurate load, at the power level I like is the most important to me.

OP
AA#2 is good stuff but same speed as clean shot, think you want something slower.
Rumors are Clean shot (and it's Lovex counterpart) are the same powder as AA#2. (I don't know this rumor if any one knows for sure it would be interesting to find out....)

Currently, I use True Blue in my 9x19. I have about the same experiences as Shak3s1977.

Once I put BE-86 through its paces, my search for the best 9x19 powder was over.

According to Alliant, BE-86 is widely used in factory SD ammo and I see why. Good stuff.

packetloss said:

Clean Shot is really clean. I can probably go through 1000 rounds and the gun will look clean. Recoil was extremely light, however, the recoil impulse is so sudden that it was causing me issues with accuracy. I could probably get past this with more acclimation, however, I don't think it will ever mix well with me shooting .357 sig, .40 or 9mm factory defensive rounds with slower powders.

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I’m not sure what you’re aiming for, a low-mid target load will never duplicate an SD load for recoil or perceived recoil. I haven’t tried Clean Shot but sounds like it’s like Titegroup which is pretty clean but the recoil impulse can be high. You may want to try a heavier bullet at the same PF, that’s another way to skin the cat rather than jump powders. Competition shooters want the right recoil to get those follow up shots as soon as possible, you’ll often see very heavy (147, 165) with the lightest charge of the fastest powder to achieve a minor PF. You may also need to adjust the recoil spring for reliable cycling. None of that will duplicate SD charges though. For me personally, I load a lot of ASP and it does check off all your metrics, at least in my guns. I’ve learned trigger control and grip should be independent of what you’re chambering. Good luck.

LiveLife said:

Titegroup - Yeah, I like Titegroup for 9mm as it produces more accurate loads than W231/HP-38, meters comparable, less temperature sensitive, achieves higher velocities.

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I DON'T like TiteGroup...but... I will admit it's a very good 9mm powder for midrange loads. It has a high nitro content, so it can be tricky when you near max loads and pressures, but it produces very good 9mm service ammo, and it seems to last forever.

Many people are now recommending BE-86... I don't care for it, particularly in the 9mm where I got incomplete burn with it beyond a specific charge range in my shorter-barreled 9mm's. I think it's too slow if that's what you are loading for... just my personal experience. I did not work with it very long, I loaded it into the mid-range published data at book OAL, but then started having problems with it, so it's possible I gave up on it too soon.

I can also vouch for how clean Accurate #2 shoots in 9mm. With that in mind, Accurate #5 or #7 would be worth a try for a slower powder.

I haven't rung the changes on powders, being happy with HP38/W231 for a long time and getting by with Bullseye when between kegs of Ball powder. I have tried others occasionally and with all the recommendations of Power Pistol you should know that its blast and flash make it a Manly Powder.

packetloss said:

I guess I'm kind of looking for a holy grail 9mm powder that is accurate, clean and a smooth recoil profile, preferably with low-medium target loads.

So far I've tried CFE Pistol, Bullseye, True Blue and Clean shot (DS032).

CFE Pistol has been accurate, recoil and recoil profile is not an issue (it's quite smooth), however it's crazy dirty. Soot all over my cases, and my gun looks like a piece of charcoal after 200 rounds. Folks have said it cleans up with higher loads, but I took it up all the way to Hogdon max and it didn't clean up much for me. I do, however, use it in .357 sig and .40 S&W and love it for those. It's clean with them, it's accurate and I like the recoil profile using medium loads.

I don't have any more Bullseye but from what I recall, it was only slightly cleaner than CFE-Pistol.

True Blue was much cleaner than CFE (but still much dirtier than clean shot) and the recoil profile and accuracy was good too (so depending on other recommendations this one might be as good as it gets for me).

Clean Shot is really clean. I can probably go through 1000 rounds and the gun will look clean. Recoil was extremely light, however, the recoil impulse is so sudden that it was causing me issues with accuracy. I could probably get past this with more acclimation, however, I don't think it will ever mix well with me shooting .357 sig, .40 or 9mm factory defensive rounds with slower powders.

Is there a powder for 9mm that will check off all my boxes?

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CFE is probably the cleanest of any of the powders you listed in my experience. For 124g coated, about 5.1g seems about right.
Have use both Clean Shot and some of the other powders from this source. Be very careful in that I found there are big differences from can to can.