Light Collecting Scopes

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Do you mean night vision scopes ? The short version is that using them is like looking through a very small TV similar to what you might find in a camcorder or video camera. The optical quality is no where near that of a decent scope. However, you can see at night in situations where cannot see anything in a normal scope. There are two types, night vision and thermal:

Night vision scopes work by electronically intensifying the image using existing light and are most often used with an invisible flashlight attached. They electronically change the invisible light to a visible image.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-vision-sightmark-atn-pulsar-or-other.874773/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/night-vision.869500/

Night vision scopes are currently much cheaper than thermal scopes. Thermal scopes work by electronically changing infrared light emitted by the target and surrounding landscape as heat into a visible image.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/thermal-scope-price-trends.847318/

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/thermal-monocular-scope-recommendations.872353/
 
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A decent quality standard hunting scope will be usable during MOST legal big game shooting times. In MOST states you can legally shoot 30 minutes prior to sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset. There is a lot of available light during those times unless you're in thick woods and/or in very cloudy, rainy conditions. I've never had an issue with a conventional scope within those times. Even 5-10 minutes before and after those times even though it would not be legal to shoot then.

There is at least one state that I'm aware of, (South Carolina) where legal shooting time is one full hour before sunrise until one hour after sunset. And there may be others. This practice is common in Europe and other countries too. A standard scope might not get it done during that extra time. And some varmint hunting is done in the dark where special optics are useful, or a bright light.

Some things you need to know. Traditional scopes don't gather light, they transmit light and some transmit the light better than others. You're never going to get 100% of the light that enters the front of the scope out the rear and into your eye. Some of the better quality scopes will transmit 99+% of that light. But these aren't cheap. Most mid range scopes, $400-$600, will be in the 95%-99% range. Most of the $200-$300 scopes will be in the 90%-95% range. The cheaper budget scopes are going to fall somewhere in the 85%-90% range.

The light transmission rating isn't always listed. It is something you have to look for. If you can't find it listed and the manufacturer isn't bragging about it, it probably isn't very good.

One thing that is listed, or easily calculated is the exit pupil rating. This is the diameter of the beam of light that exits the rear of the scope. Simply divide the scopes front objective size in MM's by the scopes magnification. That is the diameter of the light beam hitting your eye. Up to a point bigger is better. For example a 3-9X40 scope has an exit pupil rating of 13.3 if set on 3X. On 9X it would be 4.4.

BUT..... the human eye can only use so much light. Generally speaking anything over 5 or 6 is wasted. A 3-9X40 scope with the magnification set on 7X or 8X would let all the light through a human eye can use. On 9X, you might have some issues in low light. If you go to a 50mm objective it allows you to go up to 9X or 10X and still have enough light. But even with a 50mm objective anything above 10X starts to be sub par in low light. Many scoff at the little 1-4X20 scopes in low light. But one of those set on 4X lets exactly the same amount of light through as a 40mm scope set on 8X or a 50mm set on 10X.

And you have to balance both light transmission and exit pupil rating. A higher quality scope with a 99% light transmission rating is going to be brighter in low light than a cheap scope with a 90% light transmission rating even though the exit pupil rating is higher on the cheaper scope. Remember, exit pupil rating is the size of the beam of light, not necessarily how bright it is.
 
Some of the better quality scopes will transmit 99+% of that light. But these aren't cheap. Most mid range scopes, $400-$600, will be in the 95%-99% range. Most of the $200-$300 scopes will be in the 90%-95% range. The cheaper budget scopes are going to fall somewhere in the 85%-90% range.
These figures may be a bit optimistic. The current top of the line scope, commonly regarded as the hottest [manure] you can possibly buy right now, Schmidt & Bender Polar T96 series, is rated at 96.37% of transmitted light. Bettering even the Zeiss Victory -series flagships that have Schott HT glass coatings.
https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/hunting/3-12x54-polar-t96.html

These scopes are from a different world compared to even the upper echelon of non-low-light-specific quality scopes like Leupold. In most European countries there are no set limitations for hunting in daylight so a scope that works even in near-complete darkness is an advantage. Think overcast sky, December, no snow, at 1am, in rural countryside for a measure.

I've shot quite a few deer late at night over the years. Once your eyes have adjusted and you have a GOOD scope, it's more than doable. You can't necessarily see if the deer has antlers or not but using its silhouette against whatever minimal amount of light there is, you can place the shot surprisingly easily. At 6-7mm (depending on your age, I'm probably closer to 6mm by now) exit pupil you see much better than with naked eye.
 
I assume you’re talking about some type of passive night vision scope. I’m only familiar with the ones I had in the Army. I have no experience with any of the commercial products that are out there.

You’re also talking about dawn and dusk, which leads me to believe you’re hunting critters that have legal shooting hours imposed. You don’t need NV to operate within those limits. You just need a traditional scope of quality and design to maximize your visibility.

As with any of these “worth” discussions it’s important to know your budget. My suggestion will assume you don’t have one and aren’t afraid of the consequences when your wife sees the bill ;)

This is a through-the-scope cell phone pic of my Swaro Z6i 3-18X50 taken at 5:30pm CST. It give you an idea of the light gathering ability on the higher end of optics

TCz6zfP.jpg
 
I assume you’re talking about some type of passive night vision scope. I’m only familiar with the ones I had in the Army. I have no experience with any of the commercial products that are out there.

You’re also talking about dawn and dusk, which leads me to believe you’re hunting critters that have legal shooting hours imposed. You don’t need NV to operate within those limits. You just need a traditional scope of quality and design to maximize your visibility.View attachment 957619
I apologize for not clarifying, I plan to hunt yotes early in the morning (6:00 AM) and at dusk.
 
I don't have one of those yet, I hear they fetch a pretty penny and you never stop paying for em.;)
Mine pays for herself, and sometimes me, so just make sure you get the right one......



So i was messing with all of my rifles yesterday right at dusk. It's winter here so the weather's been rainy and gray all week, including yesterday.
PXL_20201123_035557162.MP.jpg

In those conditions I could see well enough to have made a shot anywhere in the "open" areas till after legal shooting hours (1/2hr after sunset) with my least impressive scopes, a Leupold VX-F 2-7x33, or Bushnell uhd 3-9x40.

There's also a hole in the trees at about 200yds, where the best scopes could pick out a tree limb back in the shadow. I'll try grab a picture of it tomorrow.


I'm not gonna try list or explain how well each scope did, but my general suggestions are a large objective wide range variable.

My 4-20x50 Athlon Argos HMR, 2.5-15x50 Midas BTR and my 4.5-27x50 Bushnell Forge would have allowed me more time than even my 3-15x42 Zeiss Conquest.

With all three I would have been comfortable shooting at a dark animal back in that hole I was looking at as well. Where as the other scopes would have only been useful at edge of the woods or open field at last shooting light.
 
Objective size/diameter is crucial. It's all about effective surface area of the lens, π r². The difference between 42mm and 50mm may sound fairly insignificant but in terms of area it's +41.7%. Move on up to 56mm and the difference is +77.8%, and 42mm is by no means small to start with. The smallest low light scopes I have are 50mm and proprietary lens coatings of certain manufacturers make a major difference on top of that.

IME, Meopta and Docter/Noblex reign supreme in budget (<$1000) low light scopes and if you stretch past $2000 it's more or less a coin toss between the holy trinity of Zeiss, Swarovski and Schmidt & Bender. Possibly Leica Magnus and Kahles Helia series too, their glass is fantastic but lens coatings have been just a tad below Zeiss Victory HT, Swarovski 6i and S&B Polar. M.S.W. Wetzlar used to be great but they've been out of business for decades now.

Hensoldt -branded tactical scopes are manufactured by Zeiss so if money is no object, they're obviously right up there too.
 
I have a scope that i used for night hunting coyotes. I will find out what it is, I bought it 15 years ago so I forgot what it is. The reticle is reflective and picks up ambient light. Top that with a weapon light, I have no issues out to 200 yards. It was not a high end scope either when I bought it.
 
Have an old leupold that was really dim in the hours of indirect light. I sent it in for free service and it came back able to see a tick on a mouse at 300 yds under a full moon. Ok not really, but it added 30 minutes to my hunting time because it "gathered light" and seemed brighter through the scope than by naked eye. Took my second deer with that scope with just a wisp of light left.
 
Have an old leupold that was really dim in the hours of indirect light. I sent it in for free service and it came back able to see a tick on a mouse at 300 yds under a full moon. Ok not really, but it added 30 minutes to my hunting time because it "gathered light" and seemed brighter through the scope than by naked eye. Took my second deer with that scope with just a wisp of light left.
A good cleaning can work wonders. They might have replaced the lenses if it was a style of scope they still produced, or at least had parts that fit.
 
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They might have replaced the lenses
If the service makes a major difference in clarity, that's most likely the case. Lens coatings keep improving all the time and fresh factory replacement lenses are commonly much better than an older scope has to start with.

Some today's mid-priced scopes are more or less on par with 1980's and early 90's Zeiss Victory Diavari 3-12x56*, which in turn is comparable to 2000's Conquest 3-12x56. Current models are a few steps ahead of either.

Vintage matters. This is something to consider when purchasing second hand optics. I usually don't unless it's a smoking deal for just a few year old higher end scope.
 
A good cleaning can work wonders. They might have replaced the lenses if it was a style of scope they still produced, or at least had parts that fit.

It was nearly 20 years ago so i dont have a clue. I was maybe 15. The rifle it was on was a used 1979 Rem 700. Dunno if it was "original" or not. I do know it was a night and day (pun definitely intended) difference. Before service, looking through the scope was darker than the naked eye, even at noon.

I have only one scope made after 2005... And the best ive looked through is a leupold. I'd love to see through one of them $1500 34mm jobs! But that is out of my zone.
 
I'm biased - but low light shooting has one leader in the industry. ZEISS.
If it was the 80's or 90's I couldn't agree more with you. Diavaris were THE scopes to have. 56mm wasn't even the upper limit for lens diameter and there were strange but fantastic special editions like the 150th anniversary edition 2.5-10x48 octagonal tube scope. I have a bunch of Zeiss scopes on my rifles, some of the from 2010's, so they're still very much in the game.

Just not the only game in town anymore. I'm currently contemplating when to butcher my piggy bank for a Schmidt & Bender Polar T96 and not the Zeiss Victory HT I've been drooling after for years.

Just shot a deer in almost total darkness earlier this evening. Approximately 3-4" high from where I thought I aimed, still got the lungs and it fell over after 30 yards but I couldn't help wondering whether the 50mm Meopta was slightly too little glass for the situation. My LGS operates like a crack dealer, they're happy to lend me samples of the nicest gear they have and only after I return them I realize how badly I want them.
:cuss:
 
I don't have one of those yet, I hear they fetch a pretty penny and you never stop paying for em.;)
Or they keep paying for you...
Mine just bought me a Sightmark Wraith for "Christmas".
On the scope. I've been able to shoot with the moonlight using a 3-9x50 scope if there is snow on the ground.
Like several others said. Glass clarity is critical.
My NV scope is truly like watching a high definition movie. With the included illuminator, I can see about 250 yards.
 
How well do light collecting scopes illuminate game during late day / early night light conditions ?
Are they worth purchasing or are regular scopes sufficient ?

I would say it also depends on how well you can see in low light conditions, regardless of the scope. Not all eyes are equal.

At 50 years old, I started hunting one year ago. I learned quickly that I needed to invest in a better “low light” scope. In SC legal hunting time for deer is the time between one hour before official sunrise until one hour after official sunset. It would be nice to take full advantage of this timeframe, and see clearly enough to know I am taking a good shot.

For my price range, a friend highly recommended the Trijicon AccuPoint TR22-1G, 2.5–10x56mm ($650). I ended up getting this scope. With a clear sky, the best I can get after official sunset is 30 minutes until I cannot see clearly. And in the morning, maybe 35 minutes before official sunrise. This is from about 80 yds away. I later found out that my friend can see a full hour with the Trijicon, and his son even longer. And they can see as far as 150+ yds.

Doing additional research and based on many positive reviews, I recently bought a Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x56mm CDS-ZL2 which has the illuminated FireDot 4 reticle ($1,300). This scope touts the Twilight Max HD Light Management system. With this scope I can get an additional 5 minutes beyond the Trijicon. Needless to say, I am very disappointed that I cannot get a full hour in both the morning and evening with clarity. I am also disappointed to spend $1,300 for only 5 more minutes.

When researching different low light hunting scopes, keep in mind that someone else’s experience may be different than yours. I would consider my ability to see in low light conditions less than the average person. Maybe all these years of staring at a computer screen/laptop has affected my rods. For the average person, I would say the Trijicon mentioned above will easily cover 30+ minutes of low light viewing with good clarity. And the Leupold will gain another 5+ minutes, but at twice the cost. Perhaps you will be like my neighbor and his son, and get a full hour or more with a good quality scope.
 
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And the Leupold will gain another 5+ minutes, but at twice the cost.
Nordic hunting magazines conduct scope tests in low light every few years. As great daytime scopes as Leupolds are, they unfortunately have a recurring habit of getting their behinds handed to them when light starts to wane. As an example: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...topics/3395048/Re_2008_Finnish_Low_Light_Scop

The 50mm Leupold VX-L scored below a 50mm Bushnell and a 44mm Burris, just above a 56mm Shirstone, second to last. The top five scopes, Zeiss (x2), Swarovski, Schmidt & Bender and Meopta were very evenly matched and the cheapest of them was the Meopta Meostar R1 3-12x56 at around $1000.

I love Leupolds, I really do and I have a few, but I wouldn't pick any of them for early morning / late evening hunts.
 
I apologize for not clarifying, I plan to hunt yotes early in the morning (6:00 AM) and at dusk.

"...In this era of coffee-mug objectives, you might think a 40mm front lens limits light transmission.
It doesn’t — at least not until you dial to 8x or higher and conditions are so dim that your eye fully dilates!
Truly, pupil dilation reaches 7mm only in total darkness; figure 5 or 6mm in the forest at last legal light, less if you’re old enough to remember Nixon as VP.

Calculate the scope’s exit pupil diameter by dividing objective diameter by power.

For example, a 3-9×40 scope at 5x has an exit pupil of 40/5 = 8mm, a bigger shaft of light than your eye can use at night!
In daylight, as your eye’s pupil shrinks, even the 5mm shaft of light from a 3-9×40 scope at 8x is generous..."​

GR
 
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