25 yard zero?

25 yard zero works great on .22lr’s for small game hunting and varmint control out to 75 yards, which is a long poke on a small varmint with a .22lr, so suitable for my uses. Trajectory stays within ~1.75” (+/-) 0-75 yards.

The .30 caliber Russian Short is known to have been zeroed at 25 meters in the Kalishnikov rifles.

Then again, the Russians were not after accuracy as it was designed a pray and spray type weapon so for hunting or modern usage I would not zero an arm at 25.

I zero my 7.62x39 at 35 yards. Works well for me out to 200 yards.

5.56 is a 50 yard zero

I also confirm they are good at 100. I honestly don’t know exactly where they are hitting at 200 and 300 yards, they ring the steel plates out at those distances at my local range, so I’m good.

If I used them to hunt, I’d be more concerned with specific POI’s, but that’s not my world these days.

The Russian Short is a 200 yards proposition at best so should work well there. The cartridge drops like a bowling ball past that range and making a hit past 200 is more luck than skill especially since most of the Kalishnikovs are only meant to hit a man sized silhouette at 100 meters.

I usually start at 50 yards to get initially in the ballpark for a 100 yard zero.

I think running a trajectory table for each is a good idea and then base your initial ballpark zero on that.

The traditional rules of thumb are only ballpark anyway because for any one caliber there's a whole range of bullet weights and loads (well... in "normal" times anyway).

The 25 yard zero is okay for .22. But, maybe even .45-70, lol. Thing is, it is not until you get out to 50 or 100 yards at least that you can really start judging your group size. I can get a good group with a slingshot at 25 yards but not at 100.

WestKentucky said:

But where did the 25 yard zero myth come from?

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It's a good question. And may be hard to pin down.

As a guess, a WAG at that, it goes back to the beforetimes, when "gun information" was more fractured, less concentrated. Where most learned bay asking around the barbershop, or the iron stove at the gun or hardware store. Or, from Cousin Eddie.

Since much of that was lore, or things glanced over in a gun magazine, repeatability was not always a certain thing. Which is also where serious myths would be born--like bullets generate "lift" and "fly" above their trajectories. And similar "imaginative" ideas and notions.

Some of which was from misunderstandings about ballistics, about what PBR actually "is" and how to apply it.

Add in that collimators were not common (and not the sort of thing you could get drop shipped after a quick internet search). So, you pretty much had to start zero at 25. And then adjust the zero when you got out to 100. Or you you "doped" the 25 zero to "be on" at 100. Which might work for cartridge A but not cartridge B.

CapnMac said:

...about what PBR actually "is"...

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For any readers wondering, PBR = "point blank range" and for an explanation, multiple C&Rsenal YouTube videos explain it well.

PS: it isn't what it "sounds like"

But where did the 25 yard zero myth come from?

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It's not a "myth," and it does have a clear rationale. Just where you "zero" at 25 plays against how far you want Point-Blank effectiveness.

All [rifle] bullets having a sight line above the bore -- and "zero'd" at 25 yards -- are still rising at that point.

EXAMPLE:
30-06, 150SPBT doing 2900 at the muzzle.
Scope Center/Line of Sight 1.5" above bore.
Zero'd at 25yds


You are POINT BLANK +/- 3" from muzzle to 290yds -- minute of Elk Heart/Lung


DITTO where military Battle Sight Zero is concerned
https://i2.wp.com/primaryandsecondary.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Capture28.jpg?ssl=1

BOTTOM LINE: If you only have 25 yards to sight in, you still have enough info to stay alive on a battlefield -- or bring home dinner.

With a modern rifle cartridge going 2,500 to 3,000fps from the muzzle, assuming a scope or other optic mounted around 1.5" above the barrel, a 25 yard zero will drop back down and hit POA again at 200-250yards. Which makes for a good zero distance on a practical rifle, where targets will be at unknown distances and shots past 300 yards uncommon.

This is obviously a generalization. But try putting a 25 yard zero into a ballistic calculator with a few of your favorite rifle/cartridge combos and see what you come up with.

You can nail down your elevation with a 25 yd zero, but I like to check windage at 100

I was always under the impression the 25 yard zero was just to get on paper and sorta fine tune while zeroing and then you should be pretty close at 100, with most things anyway. 30-06, 308, etc are usually pretty close, but no matter what zero distance you use, you need to verify and fine-tune things out to any distances you expect to shoot.

You just dont zero at 25, 50, whatever, and call it good.

With a milsurp, the whole question of where to zero your rifle's sights is moot. The rifles come zeroed. Usually 300 meters for WW I era rifles. You don't zero the sights, rather you learn where to hold.

mshootnit said:

You can nail down your elevation with a 25 yd zero, but I like to check windage at 100

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Good addition. I check my drops when zeroing at 25. And windage at a longer distance is a good thing to verify.

I’ve no idea what the “myth” means. But a 25 yard zero comes from old school 30-30 hunters shooting 170 grain bullets using irons or peep sights. Smart new school 30-30 hunters use it as well - hard to fault 100 years of precedence.

Shoot the head off a grouse or rabbit when you see one. Perfect for deer at woods ranges. Top of the back, in the brown hold at 200y.

25 yard zero on the way up, 100 yard zero on the way back down for 30-30 is the short answer.

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IMO a 25 yard zero is OK only if you're really limited to that distance and want to get on paper at longer ranges. I even zero 22 RF at 50 yards and then verify at 100. If you zero at 25 you can calculate pretty close to where you should be farther down range. But very minor errors at 25 yards that may not be noticed that will leave you several inches from where you want to hit at even 100 yards. I usually start at 50 yards with everything. And even with rounds that I know I'll never shoot past 50-100 yards will still zero at 100 yards. Even my 22's

25 yards zero = ~3” high at 100 yards and ~3” low at 300 yards with most rifle rounds, good enough for combat or hunting if you dont have the option to zero at 100 yards.

On rifles that I am not able to bore sight I use it to get on paper at 100. And it is useful for some of the older rounds. In the military we used 40 meters with the 7.62 NATO back in the 60's. In a pinch it will give you point blank range to around 250 yards depending on scope height and velocity.

The 1903 Springfields battle sights. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3vgQuY3vA0FMlVOcmE3NS1Lbkk/edit?pli=1. Loved these sights for shooting cast bullets out to 300 yards.

Sighting in at 25 yards was a military thing. Years ago the reserves came to our range with M14s. They fired/sighted in at 25 yards on the 100 yard range. (I got all their brass & some Gi ammo)

For iron sights only. A scope is a lot higher above the bore & changes bullet trajectory.

243winxb said:

For iron sights only. A scope is a lot higher above the bore & changes bullet trajectory.

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See Post#10. 1.5" bolt-action scope and/or 2.5" AR scope.. . . 25-yard zero (or under for the AR) is very useful for practical point-blank purposes

1000 inch was used for M1 Garands.

25 meters is used for M16/M4

Works pretty good for the first POA=POI for a lot of other rifle/sight/cartridge combos.

AK-47 using the 25 meter zero setting

A really long time ago. I read an article from Jack O'Conner, the 270 guy, where in he describes various distances that common cartridges of the day would be zeroed, like 19 yards for a 222 and so forth, I have since lost track of that but vividly recall many of the old guys using the listed ranges to very good effect. I believe it's an adaptation of the point blank formulas that can be found in the older Lyman reloading manuals.

Risky buisness said:

.... I believe it's an adaptation of the point blank formulas that can be found in the older Lyman reloading manuals.

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I'm not a reloader so I'm not familiar with the Lyman manuals, but yes ... I think you've hit on it there. A bullet's muzzle to point of impact trajectory passes through its straight sight-line zero elevation offset twice, so from any reference that gives you those two ranges you should be able to take the first distance as your first ballpark zero for the rifle-scope-ammo combo. Or using a computed trajectory table like posted above at the first crossover from minus to plus. Gotta love those companies that put those online. The one Vortex makes available is my favorite: https://lrbc.vortexoptics.com/#!/