Cowhide Cliff
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,089
Good news. I prefer real black powder but if I had to use a substitute APP is my choice. It's the best of all the subs I've tried.
American Pioneer Powder is Back in Business & Available
- Thread starter arcticap
- Start date
- Status
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
I noticed that APP has started making .50 round pellets instead of only the square powder sticks.
That must mean that Hodgdon's patent on round pellets has expired.
It was that patent infringement that led to the original Clean Shot Powder company going bankrupt which led to the new name of American Pioneer Powder.
I wonder if they will make revolver pellets next?
https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Product/Details/5737725?fs=1
That must mean that Hodgdon's patent on round pellets has expired.
It was that patent infringement that led to the original Clean Shot Powder company going bankrupt which led to the new name of American Pioneer Powder.
I wonder if they will make revolver pellets next?
https://www.lg-outdoors.com/Product/Details/5737725?fs=1
What is the shelf life of American Pioneer Powder FFFG?
I shot a little through my 50 cal. Knight Disc muzzleloaders.
I am about ready to get those guns out again.
I am guessing the opened and unopened containers are at least 10 years old.
Is this stuff safe to use?
I've used smokeless powders older than this.
I haven't been shooting much for a long time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
I shot a little through my 50 cal. Knight Disc muzzleloaders.
I am about ready to get those guns out again.
I am guessing the opened and unopened containers are at least 10 years old.
Is this stuff safe to use?
I've used smokeless powders older than this.
I haven't been shooting much for a long time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
TheOutlawKid
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2018
- Messages
- 1,480
Square powder sticks? Wow...never heard of those. Hmm i would have imagined that to get around the round pellet patent the other companies could have used an octagonal shaped pellet or maybe even a decagon (10 sided) or dodecagon (12 sided) pellet. Im thinking some 15 or 20 grain sized pellets would be great. Or even 25 grains. This would also help out the inline group that only has the choice of creating a load in 50 grain increments. Theyd be able to fine tune their loads.
Jackrabbit1957
Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,865
The zip gun crowd can work up loads with loose powder, if they take the time to do it. I used to advertise in a black powder magazine published by Knight, I never saw a single article about loading with loose powder. Always was load 3 50 grain pellets and then whine about accuracy, or accept the results without doing any further load development.
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
It should last a lifetime as long as the lid is sealed tight.
Only take out as much as you need, or put pre-measured charges into pill bottles at home to keep it away from moisture.
It can always be remeasured at the range or in the field.
That way if you put it back into the bottle at least it has been kept sealed.
It cleans up a lot easier than Pyrodex.
It's velocity is related to how much that it's compressed when loaded.
Ram the bullet down firmly.
alsaqr
Member
i've used all the APP manufactured powders; APP, Jim Shockey's Gold, Pinnacle 2F and 3F and Black MZ . Prior to the lawsuit i used the Clean Shot powder.
I don't do black powder hand guns or black powder shotguns. My extensive experience with those powders is with conventional muzzleloaders using patched round balls and with inline muzzleloaders.
All the APP powders require heavy compression and a tight fitting ball or sabot for consistent velocity. Most wooden ramrods will break before adequate compression is applied. Confusion sat in after someone at APP decided that heavy compression of the powder could lead to catastrophe and the loading instructions for JSG were changed:
"Seat the projectile so that it is firmly against the powder. No further compression is required or recommended. Standard caps will work just fine. When using a sabot load, pick one that is somewhat tight in your bore when loading."
Then along came Black MZ and this: " Black MZ functions best when heavily compressed by the seated sabot."
Velocity wise Black MZ is very close to Pyrodex RS. My standard deviations for velocity are in the teens to mid 30 fps.
i'm happy to see the return of Black MZ.
I don't do black powder hand guns or black powder shotguns. My extensive experience with those powders is with conventional muzzleloaders using patched round balls and with inline muzzleloaders.
All the APP powders require heavy compression and a tight fitting ball or sabot for consistent velocity. Most wooden ramrods will break before adequate compression is applied. Confusion sat in after someone at APP decided that heavy compression of the powder could lead to catastrophe and the loading instructions for JSG were changed:
"Seat the projectile so that it is firmly against the powder. No further compression is required or recommended. Standard caps will work just fine. When using a sabot load, pick one that is somewhat tight in your bore when loading."
Then along came Black MZ and this: " Black MZ functions best when heavily compressed by the seated sabot."
Velocity wise Black MZ is very close to Pyrodex RS. My standard deviations for velocity are in the teens to mid 30 fps.
i'm happy to see the return of Black MZ.
TheOutlawKid
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2018
- Messages
- 1,480
The return of black mz? It has returned?! Where?!
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
Capt. George Baylor [a.k.a. Curt Rich] posted on the SASS: --->>> https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/225436-american-pioneer-powder-premium-grade-special/
"Jim Shockey's Gold has the fines removed..."
I hadn't heard that before.
alsaqr
Member
Neither had i.
The second longest muzzleloader shot i've made was a 150 pound sow shot at 206 lasered yards. The rifle was a CVA Magnum Hunter loaded with 100 grains of Jim Shockey's Gold powder and a .452 250 grain SST bullet in a tight fitting sabot. Bang flop.
Sorry about that, i meant APP powder.
Jackrabbit1957
Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2018
- Messages
- 2,865
Thanks for correcting that, was about to put on my white pants
TheOutlawKid
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2018
- Messages
- 1,480
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
The American Pioneer .50 pellets are also sold by Graf's under the Shooters World label as The Hunter Pellets.
--->>> https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/83680
Shooters World The Hunter Pellets
--->>> https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/83680
Shooters World The Hunter Pellets
TheOutlawKid
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2018
- Messages
- 1,480
I dont use pellets...but its nice to see a large bulk jar of pellets. 100 count eh? Thats pretty awesome. Thanks for sharing mr.articap
archeryrob
Member
I use the loose FFF in paper cartridges for the 58's. I like the non-coorosive properties of it and I don't have to thoroughly break down the revolver and all the time. Its affordable and I can buy it locally were most places won;t carry BP any more. Also the bottle is the same top and thread as the hodgdon bottles and screws on to my Lee Perfect powder measure which makes charging the cartridges twice as easy.
Their packaging says it burns cleaner, I don't see that at all and is just as dirty. It just doesn't have to be cleaned up as much and as good and won't rust if you don't.
Their packaging says it burns cleaner, I don't see that at all and is just as dirty. It just doesn't have to be cleaned up as much and as good and won't rust if you don't.
OP
OP
arcticap
Member
It's easier to clean but it can cause rust if the residue absorbs humidity.
Make sure to clean the residue and to lube with something like mineral oil or Ballistol.
- Status
