Duty to Inform Experience

RETG said:

I fully understand, if asked, I would have to inform that's rather obvious. And I understand it is different from state-to-state. I was just curious about your at home (inside or outside in the drive, etc., and LE comes to your home to ask you a question; example might be did you witness a disturbance last night...whatever, would it ever be required to say....hey, I have a gun on me...or something to that affect? It never would to me; no more than I would ever allow them to search my house without a warrant.

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Again, read the applicable statutes for your jurisdiction.

While some states are not as clear as they could be, some are.

SC is pretty explicit, while NC is a bit more vague.

South Carolina:

23-31-215. Issuance of Permits.

(K) A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer.

(1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and

(2) requests identification or a driver’s license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty five dollars.

SO...in SC the LEO must identify himself as a LEO AND request ID or a driver's license, whereupon you must inform the LEO you are a permit holder and present the permit. It never says you have to explicitly tell the officer you are carrying a firearm: that is implicit.

North Carolina:

§ 14-415.11. Permit to Carry Concealed Handgun; Scope of Permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.

SO...in NC whenever you are approached by any LEO OR addressed by any LEO you must INFORM the officer you have a permit and PRODUCE it if asked. It also explicitly states that you must inform that you are carrying a concealed weapon.

Virginia:

§ 18.2-308.01. Carrying a Concealed Handgun with a Permit.

(H) …. The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the U.S. Department of Defense or U.S. State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. A person to whom a nonresident permit is issued shall have such permit on his person at all times when he is carrying a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth and shall display the permit on demand by a law-enforcement officer….

SO...in VA if you are specifically ASKED by LEO you must produce your permit if you are carrying concealed. It never says you have to explicitly tell the officer you are carrying a firearm: that is implicit.


THE ABOVE EXAMPLES are two states which are considered "must inform officer immediately upon contact" (SC and NC) and one state in which you do not have to inform immediately upon contact (VA).

In SC, the officer is essentially making an official contact with the individual by identifying as a LEO and asking for some kind of identification. This triggers the "must inform" and you must produce the permit.

In NC, the officer simply approaching you or addressing you triggers the "must inform". You produce the permit when asked. It does not make it explicit that it's for "official contact", but the words "when approached" are not meant to imply "casually walking in your direction".

In VA, the officer must specifically ask you to produce it.


HOW DO YOU INTERPRET VAGUE STATUTES?

In general, by first following what the statute actually says. Keep in mind that officers are human, too, and many will have differing interpretations among themselves. NC says any officer approaching you (not written in the casual sense of just walking in your direction, but approaching you with a purpose) OR the officer is speaking with you. So meet the letter of the law, don't ty to read more into what is written, and inform/produce.

Craig_VA said:

I have read posts on THR of members who carry printed copies of the relevant carry laws to show LEOs if needed.

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I've read those posts too and I don't see the point.

I do not believe that any cop would or really even should acknowledge some quote of the statute that was printed off the internet

Trunk Monkey said:

Well maybe I read more into your post than was there but if you're implying that your friend was driving all over Hooterville County Texas out running all the cops I think you might be stretching the blanket just a little bit.

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Wow, Monkey, you do read a lot between the lines, don’Y you?

OneFreeTexan said:

Wow, Monkey, you do read a lot between the lines, don’Y you?

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I said I might have read more into it than was there.

Craig_VA said:

A number of years ago, a driver from NC was in Fairfax County VA in the DC area, about 2 miles south of the I-495 Capitol Beltway. He slow-rolled a stop sign near the Krispy Kreme onto US 1, and a FCPD officer pulled him over. He thought VA had the same duty to inform as NC, so he did so. The cop, his supervisor, and the duty desk cop ALL did not understand that VA recognized his NC carry permit, so they arrested him for illegal possession.
It took time in court and a lawyer to have a judge 'splain to the FCPD that he was perfectly legal.

Lesson: read the carry laws for where you are and where you will be. I have read posts on THR of members who carry printed copies of the relevant carry laws to show LEOs if needed.

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I've heard of the odd encounter like this. Usually it's in one of the more unfriendly states with respect to gun laws...like Maryland, for example, where you can find instances where people have had firearms legally being transported through the state in accordance with federal law being confiscated. Or a vehicle being searched for firearms because it came up that the out of state driver had a carry permit.

Unfortunately, we can't escape the fact that even among the best in law enforcement, some will not be aware of the laws on such matters.

One would think, however, that the instance you cited above would have been sorted out at any number of levels before it reached the court. Like at the superisore level, the duty desk cop, and certainly at the DA level, where they're supposed to actually know and understand the laws for any case they're intending to prosecute.

Best I can say, in addition to knowing the laws when you travel, is use your best judgement based on the circumstances at hand and know when it's time to shut up and lawyer up. What else can we do?

I was pulled over recently and informed the officer I was carrying while showing my DL and CCL, all he ask was to not show him mine and he wouldn't show his, after the verbal warning he ask what I was carrying and I told him a Shield45 and I also had my wifes 9mm in the floorboard, when he saw 2 50cal cans and I showed him they were full of ammo, he smiled and asked if I reloaded, good thing I wasn't in a hurry, I've seen him a couple of times since and now he reloads his rifle and revolver rounds.

As has been said, Arkansas requires that you inform the officer. But as a courtesy I'll inform any other officer in any other state. I learned at an early age that the drivers attitude pretty much dictates the officers attitude and I try to be as polite as possible. Not that I get stopped that much. The few times that I have been stopped I have noticed that having a CCL has caused the officer to noticeably become more relaxed.

I’ll usually ask if it’s anything interesting for conversation sake then thank them for carrying.

wickedsprint said:

I’ll usually ask if it’s anything interesting for conversation sake then thank them for carrying.

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How do you define interesting?

Trunk Monkey said:

How do you define interesting?

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I stopped defining it a long time ago when my disposable income took a hit

Here in TX duty to inform, you can tell the imported cops,
“...here is my DL/Ins/CHP. Anything else?”
Texans “...what are you carrying?” (short discussion on caliber/etc)
Imports, “please keep your hands where I can see
them...” (runs to car with docs, back in ~5 min, “you don’t get many tickets sir? Please sign here.”) [one ticket in 50 odd years, both of these were warnings about lead foot]

two true stories from just north of Dallas.

woerm

cslinger said:

I got pulled over by Roboc......errr a TN state trooper many years ago right after the move over law went into effect. He was finishing up a stop and I didn’t move over so he caught up to me and pulled me.

As a courtesy I provided him all my ID immediately and informed him that I was indeed carrying and asked him how he wanted to proceed. In the most bored, deadpan, polite way he says......

“Sir did you plan on shooting me today?”
“No sir, of course not I said.”
“Then we should be able to speed this ticket right along then.”
“Well I wasn’t planning on it a few seconds ago.”
He cracked a very small smile ........ and wrote my ticket.

I always laugh at just how uninterested in me carrying that he was.

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I would guess that most law enforcement personnel who work in states where concealed carry is allowed know that the bad guys will attempt to run or maybe even attack law enforcement. The bad guys certainly aren't going to ask the law enforcement agent "How would you like to proceed, seeing as I'm carrying today". Thus, Law Enforcement is probably not all that concerned with someone who appears to already be cooperating with them.