Remington Finished

Roundhill Group LLC, is first in line for failing at trying to bring Remington firearms back. They bought Remington's Ilion facility in October but not the name (Vista Outdoors owns the Remington name and the ammunition plants). All indications are a third bankruptcy is highly probably before we see Ilion NY made firearms again.

I think some "true" modern Remington made guns may eventually become collector items but given the relatively high production rates on most currently Remington models it's going to be many MANY years before any of them take on true collector values.

Or a Winchester made in Japan a Winchester.


Kevin

Remington was circling the drain back in the 1970's. They have been slow to innovate and were late to incorporate new technology. They were the last gun company to use interchangeable choke tubes on their shotguns. They introduced new rifle chamberings and then didn't support them by producing ammo or rifles for them.

The 700 was always a budget gun that took advantage of manufacturing shortcuts to meet a price point. Even with that the 700 did deserve the reputation they earned for accuracy. But there are already several 700 clones being made that address the 700's shortcomings and are a better rifle. I don't see anyone making an exact copy of the 700 when there are already better clones being made.

IMO the 870 is the best designed gun Remington makes and the one that I hope someone continues to produce. Hopefully with better QC.

As far as collector value, just like any other gun anything made in low numbers and odd chamberings will bring more down the road. But common guns in common cartridges won't. Some guns like the 870 and 1100 Special Field guns that were made in small numbers only for a year or 2 are already highly sought after.

army_eod said:

Remington firearms business was not doing well for many reasons.

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Primarily because Cerebus began trying to divest themselves of Remington/Freedom Group immediately after Sandy Hook. In the meantime they mismanaged the company.
It wasn't the guns, material or employees but a business policy that didn't care about its product because they weren't going to own it long term.

Since it looks as if they are no longer in business would certain models be considered valuable because they will become rare?

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Of course. Value is in the eye of the beholder.
Surest way to encourage "collectability" is to stop production or have a significant change to prior models.
West German Sigs>German Sigs>American made Sigs
FN/Browning Hi Powers> FN/Browning Hi Powers marked with "Assembled in Portugal" (and they are the exact same gun)
Pre 1970 Colt Government Models >'70 series> '80 series
Pre 64 Winchesters>post '64 Winchesters> Miroku Winchesters
Gen 1 Glocks>Gen 2, 3, 4, 5 believe it or not.

I know that someone will probably try to resurrect the name but that is like calling a motorcycle made by Polaris an Indian.

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Your average gun buyer doesn't give a hoot if the name is resurrected or if the company has new ownership.

I've already met folks who collect 870 Wingmaster shotguns. And I know guys who will pay a premium for 600 series rifles.
Personally, I've been thinking about looking for 552 Speedmaster 22 rifles. I had 2 of those years ago and really liked them.
Now is not a good time to be looking for anything. Local stores are sold out of most nice used stuff.

Its been out of production for a bit but my Remington 7615 has tripled in value from the 450 I bought it at last year. I dont really care though. Im still getting it converted to 450 BM.

H&R/NEF rifles have only gone up slightly since discontinuation. There were so many out there that when the hype of them being discontinued died down, they ended up nearly where they already were.

I think the same will happen with the hyper common Remington items and items that already had a small collector following will skyrocket a bit like my 7615. I know 7600P 308 rifles are blasting up there.

If the current owners do not make it, we will never see Remington firearms made in NY again. Even if they do make it, the days of Remington in NY is nearing an end. The days of the 870 and 700 are not over, they are too popular to go away, someone will take up the mantle if current owners fail.

Also with everything I have read, Remington was not mismanaged everything they did was purposeful and intentional. The company was kept operational only long enough to strip it of cash and take out the full value of the company in loans, a lot of money was made off Remington.

Odds are you won't be seeing Remington firearms made again, ever. It's one thing to want out pf NY. an old factory, high taxes, high union labor and a Governor who hates guns; but they also walked away from their new facility in Alabama.

Gun companies are bought and sold all the time. How many haven't? I am not doom and gloom. Glad Ruger bought Marlin. American gun company, and doesn't compete with their other models.

Unfortunately all the H&RS I see come up for sale are in weird "good if you reload" wiz bang cartridges of yester year

Berserker said:

Gun companies are bought and sold all the time. How many haven't? I am not doom and gloom. Glad Ruger bought Marlin. American gun company, and doesn't compete with their other models.

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Do a little research into who bought Remington firearms. If you like Remington firearms you will be worried about Remington firearms. Marlin is in good hands, Remington firearms is not.

While a couple of my favorite 22s were made by Remington the only modern Remington that I found interesting enough to buy is their RM380 pistol. So I would more than likely just keep renewing my older Remingtons and enjoying the two RM380s I have regardless of what happens with the brand.

While Remington has made a lot of mistakes over the years, their current bankruptcy was caused by financial pirates. See post #84:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-bankruptcy-no-2.870725/page-4#post-11554236

It remains to be seen what will happen with Remington's remains.

natman said:

While Remington has made a lot of mistakes over the years, their current bankruptcy was caused by financial pirates. See post #84:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-bankruptcy-no-2.870725/page-4#post-11554236

It remains to be seen what will happen with Remington's remains.

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The first bankruptcy (2018) was caused, as you state, by financial pirates, Cerberus in particular. The second bankruptcy (2020) was cause by inept leadership of Remington Outdoor Company. Remington emerged from the 2018 bankruptcy no longer attached to Cerberus, and with considerable less debt and in a good position to make a strong recovery, but the leadership put in place by the new owners (the banks, JP Morgan Chase & Franklin Tempelton) decided to go full fudd and squandered the second chance they had been given. And now that same leadership, that bankrupted Remington the second time, has used a front company to buy Remington's facility at pennies on the dollar and will continue to fudd what is left of Remington Firearms into the ground.

Does any one know who bought the knife making division. ? I have bought my son a bullet knife every year since 1982. I found this years model on E Bay. Hope it won't be the last one.

Buckhunter 62 said:

Does any one know who bought the knife making division. ? I have bought my son a bullet knife every year since 1982. I found this years model on E Bay. Hope it won't be the last one.

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Vista Outdoors will have the naming rights to that, but Remington has not made the knives in years. It has always been a license deal. I believe for the past two or three years Buck was making those licensed bullet knives but I am not sure who it was before that.

mcb said:

The first bankruptcy (2018) was caused, as you state, by financial pirates, Cerberus in particular. The second bankruptcy (2020) was cause by inept leadership of Remington Outdoor Company. Remington emerged from the 2018 bankruptcy no longer attached to Cerberus, and with considerable less debt and in a good position to make a strong recovery, but the leadership put in place by the new owners (the banks, JP Morgan Chase & Franklin Tempelton) decided to go full fudd and squandered the second chance they had been given. And now that same leadership, that bankrupted Remington the second time, has used a front company to buy Remington's facility at pennies on the dollar and will continue to fudd what is left of Remington Firearms into the ground.

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I've often said that Remington's marketing department couldn't figure out how to package a bucket of water to a man whose pants were on fire. It seems that there's always something off with Remington's products; the twist is too slow, the bullet weight is too heavy, something that makes the end result not quite right for its intended use.

I have few complaints about Remington’s end products. I don’t look for hyper specialized stuff either just hunting guns, which is sure is part of Remingtons problem. They doubled down on fudd and it hurt them among other reasons.

Also, my favorite guns of Remington are items that are either not popular in the market or discontinued. I have and love:

597 Magnum- discontinued
7615P- discontinued
7600 carbine- small market segment
572- small market segment
552- small market segment

I have none of their hot items because I generally don’t like bolt actions, prefer the Browning BPS in every situation, already had 1911s covered, there are nearly universally better choices for ARs, and the small handguns were too spotty.

mcb said:

Do a little research into who bought Remington firearms. If you like Remington firearms you will be worried about Remington firearms. Marlin is in good hands, Remington firearms is not.

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Sad.

I think the Remington 870 is the greatest pump shotgun ever made and continues to be made this day. I can't think of any other Remington product I care for though.

I’ve only got a few Remington firearms. A 700 BDL heavy barrel Varminter 7-08, a 600 in 308, a 521-T, and a pre choke tube, 1979, 870 Wingmaster. Good enough guns but I wouldn’t trade my Ruger 77s or Winchester 70s for any of them. I guess the 870 is OK but It doesn’t hold a candle to any one of my fleet of Model 12 Winchesters. The 521-T is kind of in a league of it’s own, I’m a bit disappointed in the one I have now. It doesn’t shoot nearly as well as I remember the one I had when I was a kid did. Maybe my eyesight was better then and my memory a but cloudy now. It was my first gun, paid for two-bits at a time for each jack rabbit we sold to the mink ranch. They skinned them, sold the skins, and ground the rest up for feed. Took quite a few rabbits that one winter even though it was a heck of a buy at $25 brand new! That was over 60 years ago though. The one I have now was considerably more money. Hate to see Remington bite the dust, but honestly, it wouldn’t make that much difference to me anyway. None of mine are favorites anyhow.

army_eod said:

Remington firearms business was not doing well for many reasons.
Since it looks as if they are no longer in business would certain models be considered valuable because they will become rare?
I know that someone will probably try to resurrect the name but that is like calling a motorcycle made by Polaris an Indian.

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Only the older stuff, IMHO. Model 8. Model 81. That kind of stuff. The newest junk is exactly that, junk. I hate what they did to Marlin too. Anyway, I have a 511 Scoremaster 22 that is a family heirloom and is a great gun. Super accurate. Also, I have a Model 600 Mohawk 243. The prices on those keep going up. The 722 is a pretty good rifle for a plain jane beast. Have one out in the safe, but not in a rare caliber. The new 597 I bought isn't worth a crap and won't be. I think anything prior to say 1975 would be a good bet for quality, but as far as rare goes, who knows? Some models they made millions of....

I can't defend Remington and yet I can't say I won't miss them, in fact I am going to miss Remington more than I probably should. I own several Remington rifles, shotguns and handguns and more Bushmasters, DPMS and AAC stuff too. The best group I have ever shot with any gun was with a Remington 700 made in the past two years.


I have shared this target before but that is a .38 MOA 5-shot group at 200 yards using a Remington factory barreled action and Barnes (formerly owned by Remington now owned by Vista) factory ammo. Even at the end when Remington did it right they did it right. To bad they couldn't figure out how to do it right more often.

mcb said:

I can't defend Remington and yet I can't say I won't miss them, in fact I am going to miss Remington more than I probably should. I own several Remington rifles, shotguns and handguns and more Bushmasters, DPMS and AAC stuff too. The best group I have ever shot with any gun was with a Remington 700 made in the past two years.

I have shared this target before but that is a .38 MOA 5-shot group at 200 yards using a Remington factory barreled action and Barnes (formerly owned by Remington now owned by Vista) factory ammo. Even at the end when Remington did it right they did it right. To bad they couldn't figure out how to do it right more often.

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I loved the story I read about the guy who brought his new Remington home, looked down the barrel and discovered it wasn't rifled. There is a local custom gunsmith near me that is a Remington action specialist. He would buy those cheapo plastic stock model 700 rifles by the bunch and rob the actions. I imagine he ain't real happy.