300win mag for grizzly/brown bears

I think we all should listen to #Caribou, apparently a person of experience, and, if going on such an expedition, spend all that extra dough on Ammo and practice shot placement. For myself I’ll just stay out of places where Mr or Mrs Grizz hang out.

whughett said:

I think we all should listen to #Caribou, apparently a person of experience, and, if going on such an expedition, spend all that extra dough on Ammo and practice shot placement. For myself I’ll just stay out of places where Mr or Mrs Grizz hang out.

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Well, that ain't no fun .

That pretty much eliminates Alaska and Montana and a few other places for hiking, camping, not even hunting?

Ugly Sauce said:

Speaking of close range, that's the last place I'd want a Nosler magic bullet. I'd much prefer a heavy for caliber round-nose bullet, something like an old 200 grain Remington "Core-Lockt" that's not going to blow up at close range.

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You obviously have not used both on bigger big game!!

Especially at 300 mag. velocities!

DM

3Crows said:

Well, that ain't no fun .

That pretty much eliminates Alaska and Montana and a few other places for hiking, camping, not even hunting?

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My heart goes out to those that must, last I heard no Grizz east of the Mississippi.

DM~ said:

You obviously have not used both on bigger big game!!

Especially at 300 mag. velocities!

DM

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I believe we need to send Ugly Sauce a copy of "Game Loads And Practical Ballistics For The American Hunter" by Bob Hagel.

Hookeye said:

Id look at a 35 whelen, 338 winmag or 375 H&H if going after grizzly.

But if elk hunting in grizz country, a
300 wm sounds decent

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I've had a 338 Win Mag for many years. But if I was elk hunting in "grizz country" (which I was actually doing just a little over a month ago) I would choose my 308 Norma Mag (identical ballistics to a 300 Win Mag) any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Why? Because I'm better with my 308 Norma than I am with my 338 Win Mag. Therefore I trust myself to put a bullet where it needs to go more with my 30 caliber magnum than I do with my 33 caliber magnum.
Besides, you're talking what - about .03" difference in bullet diameter and possibly 30grs difference in bullet weight? I would (and do) choose what I shoot best for hunting elk in grizzly country. And if that happens to be a 30 caliber magnum, or even my old 30-06, so be it.
On the other hand, if I was purposely going after a big grizzly, like maybe a brown bear in Alaska, I'm pretty sure I could convince myself I need a 375 H&H. I've been looking for an excuse to buy myself a 375 H&H for a while now anyway.

whughett said:

I think we all should listen to #Caribou, apparently a person of experience, and, if going on such an expedition, spend all that extra dough on Ammo and practice shot placement. For myself I’ll just stay out of places where Mr or Mrs Grizz hang out.

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While I highly regard his input & experience, and have known other Alaska folks who successfully downed bears with such rounds as .222 rem, .243 and other smaller cartridges, I would not be comfortable doing so when other options exist. Howard Hill killed elephants with a long bow; doesn't mean I want to face a PO'd 5+ ton animal who would stomp me into a pancake with something that might get the job done with a perfect shot by a very experienced hunter.

whughett said:

My heart goes out to those that must, last I heard no Grizz east of the Mississippi.

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"Those who have packed far up into grizzly country know that the presence of even one grizzly on the land elevates the mountains, deepens the canyons, chills the winds, brightens the stars, darkens the forest, and quickens the pulse of all who enter it."

John Murray

I had the opportunity to pull a 90 lbs Louis Armbruster made Zebra longbow named SunGod in my teen years. I cannot imagine wanting to hunt elephants with such an implement. If I recall Mr. Hill was using 2-blade broad heads for deeper penetration and long 35” or 40” arrows compared to my 30 1/2”.

I cannot rightly give a caliber recommendation for any such hunt as my mind quickens toward bigger is safer. .404 Jeffery might be a nice multi-continent partner but if .300 fits why not load every other with heavies JIC. Better still, find a heavy that shoots well in your rifle and use it. If I didn’t own a .300 already then 8mm Mauser.

The_shooter said:

I’ve thought of getting a 338wm then switching it to 358norma but I’m really thinking of stepping up to 375

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African PH's and Big Game writers have discovered the 9.3x62mm - and never looked back.

It just works.




GR

Garandimal said:

African PH's and Big Game writers have discovered the 9.3x62mm - and never looked back.

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Basically a Euro version of the .375 Whelen.

Here in the US, one would do better to select .375 H&H. A bit more potent, but more due to availability of rifles, ammo and brass. I'd bet just about any store which carries ammo in AK has .375 H&H mag.

Let’s see, People who actually live in Alaska seem to be saying .300 WM is fine for brown bear. The people who say go bigger don’t. I see a pattern.

I'm going to take a guess and say the folks recommending cartridges "more powerful" than .300 Win mag also believe .223 is "too weak" for deer, but have never shot either of those animals with the cartridges they critique.

cdb1 said:

Let’s see, People who actually live in Alaska seem to be saying .300 WM is fine for brown bear. The people who say go bigger don’t. I see a pattern.

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Yup, after living and hunting 25 years in Alaska, I learned a 30-06 loaded with 200NP's or a bigger cartridge, was all that was needed for brown bears.

Then again I don't believe in shooting at big bears hundreds of yards away either!! And, NO ONE, hunting with me ever did either...

DM

Hog huntin Harry said:

I believe we need to send Ugly Sauce a copy of "Game Loads And Practical Ballistics For The American Hunter" by Bob Hagel.

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I used to have that! Don't know what happened to it. Loved that book. Yes! Please send me a copy. PM me for my address.

The thing about velocity is, the more velocity, the harder it is for any bullet to work properly. However, if I were to use a Nosler magic bullet in a .300mag, I'd get the heaviest one they made, and then throttle the velocity back a bit.

And perhaps the Nosler has improved over the years. ? That I don't know. I just remember that the front portion of them used to blow up badly, leaving a short light unexpanded shank of the bullet to "carry on". Even so, I sure would not spend the big bucks on them when a round nose core-lockt will perform just as well. I believe the high price, and the high hype, just convinces people that the Nosler has some kind of magic power.

Ugly Sauce said:

I used to have that! Don't know what happened to it. Loved that book. Yes! Please send me a copy. PM me for my address.

The thing about velocity is, the more velocity, the harder it is for any bullet to work properly. However, if I were to use a Nosler magic bullet in a .300mag, I'd get the heaviest one they made, and then throttle the velocity back a bit.

And perhaps the Nosler has improved over the years. ? That I don't know. I just remember that the front portion of them used to blow up badly, leaving a short light unexpanded shank of the bullet to "carry on". Even so, I sure would not spend the big bucks on them when a round nose core-lockt will perform just as well. I believe the high price, and the high hype, just convinces people that the Nosler has some kind of magic power.

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You obviously don't understand how an NP works, but I will tell you how one of those 200RN worked for me out of a 300 Win. Mag...

A bull caribou was facing me slightly up hill, at about 140 yards, I put one in it's center chest, that bullet blew up on the chest bone and blew a big hole to the outside. Of course I got the caribou, but I'm sure glad It wasn't a Brown Bear that I was trying to break down!!!

NOW, a 200 NP would have went in, blew the nose off making for a lot of tissue damage, and then the rest of the shank, would of "easily" penetrated DEEP into the bear, breaking everything in it's path!!!

How do I know that? Because I've done that too!

DM

If you drive a bullet faster than what it's designed for, it will blow up. I'd say that (the caribou) was more a case of "pilot error" rather than the bullet failing. I had a Speer 400 grain, .458" JSP blow up badly on a deer, out of my Marlin 45-70. Having succumbed to "magnumtitus", I was driving it way over what it was made for. But I really didn't think a big chunk of lead like that, going under 2000fps, (I think I had it loaded to 1700fps, but I forget) could blow up. !! That was my fault, not the bullet's.

I also used to load my 7.7 Arisaka carbine, 16" barrel, real hot. (with bullets designed for the 7.7/.303/7.65) From the short barrel they worked pretty good. Then I picked up another Arisaka with the full length barrel. From the long barrel, those bullets blew up badly on deer and coyotes.

I think any bullet will work well, if it's loaded intelligently, and at velocities the bullet was intended for. Even the Nosler Magic Bullet. "NPMB"

But I'm really not trying to pick an argument with anyone over the .300WinMag. I just thought it was more exciting to pick a caliber with a little more "cool factor" than a .300 mag. Never suggested or implied that one needed a bigger cartridge, and I'm not really seeing where others have. I think there has been some confusion between "hunting grizz" and "hunting in Grizz territory" (I frequently hunt in a Grizzley Recovery Area) (with a flintlock)(GMU113 in North Eastern Washington state)

I still think the Nosler is not a magic bullet, and absolutely grossly over priced. However, since I've never lived in Alaska, that opinion is..."canceled"?? And, I'm not sure how my dislike of the NP makes it obvious that I don't know how it works. (oh wise one...!! ) Believe it or not, one can understand how it's supposed to work, and still wonder why people spend mega-bucks on them. But, just a poor ignoramus am I. As Festus once said, the things I don't understand would fill a good sized barn.

Anyone who thinks Nosler Partitions or Accubonds are all expensive hype and imaginary "magic power" obviously hasn't shot much game with them. I have been using them (and experimenting occasionally with others) for over 45 years. There are other bullets that deserve respect too, but Nosler has been the standard of performance on game for many years, and high velocity is exactly where the advantages become worthwhile. As for being expensive, the cost of hunting bullets is SO FAR down my list of hunting expenses, that worrying about it is absurd.

Wow...I seem to be making a lot of friends on this thread, for thought-crimes. Sorry to have offended anyone's quasi religious beliefs concerning the magic bullets. I will cease and desist, and shut up. Chill out people.

Ugly Sauce said:

Wow...I seem to be making a lot of friends on this thread, for thought-crimes. Sorry to have offended anyone's quasi religious beliefs concerning the magic bullets. I will cease and desist, and shut up. Chill out people.

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Well, that's one way to refuse to learn something from those that have plenty of experience with what you call a magic bullet...

Compared to what YOU recommended, it is magic!!

DM

Some years before the 300Wm existed, my old dad was taking bears in Alaska with the oft overlooked 3006, in the following years as I quizzed him regarding why the 06, not really my favorite by the way, he allowed that while larger rifles existed, he appreciated the low recoil, in comparison to the hot rod cartridges especially, as a previous poster alluded to, shoot twice. 300 sounds good to me, but if I get the chance I will take my old Dads customed up 03,

Nope, not taking the bait. Not gonna do it. I will never, ever, disrespect, speak harshly of, make fun of, or challenge the magic of the Holy Nozzler. I will seek to learn from my superiors, my masters, my betters, no matter what obviously evil thoughts pop into my tiny brain. Not gonna do it. Try your best! The Nosler is the best bullet ever, and no price is too high to pay. No bullet except the Nosler will ever pass through the bores of my rifles. I believe. I accept. Have mercy on me. I surrender. I give. I am defeated. And no recommendation will I ever put forth again. I will leave that to my betters. The Nosler IS magic, I agree.

I would bring whatever rifle you shoot best. Obviously stay bear aware but you are much much more likely to be taken out via helicopter due to broken leg or bad falls. Or cuts or burns. Carry a lighter rifle and a bigger med kit.

Really. My chances of getting ate by Mr.Grizz pale in comparison to my chances of getting killed on the highway, going to and from my hunting grounds. I'm perfectly fine with a flintlock, and leaving my .350Remington Magnum at home. Of course my flintlock is .62 caliber, but that....is another story.

Ugly Sauce said:

I will cease and desist, and shut up. .

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Apparently, you won't.