The rivalry between my SIG Sauer and Heckler & Koch.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Miami_JBT

Member
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
1,236
Location
Big Bend of FL, originally from Miami.
SIG Sauer and Heckler & Koch; both are know for they aggressive marketing where they constantly referred to elite units around the world using their products and both are known for their catchy 90s tag lines embroidered on their swag.

s-l400.jpg

s-l400.jpg

Now, back then I was all about GLOCK and Beretta (and I still am). But I do happen to some of the goods that both SIG and HK have released and I find the USP Compact and SP2022 to be excellent competitors.

skztH2a.jpg

I find the USP to be an excellent pistol and while it has been updated with the P2000 line, the USP Compact is still just as capable today as it was then. Yeah, the accessory rail might be a tad outdated. But other than that, there isn't a single thing wrong with this gun as a modern and capable DA/SA hammer fired polymer framed pistol. Especially with it being chambered in .40 S&W since it was designed from the ground up for it.

cszIjS4.jpg

The SP2022 is in my opinion, SIG Sauer's final original product. It is the ultimate iteration of the P22x line. It took everything that was successful with the P220, P226, and P229 and adapted it to a polymer frame and from there it was further refined in the Sig Pro line until we got to the SP2022. Again, being chambered from the ground up .40 S&W, this gun has no issues with the cartridge. It is SIG's best DA/SA gun out there.

WVjn27w.jpg

While both are different designs, they're both made with superb ergonomic and mechanical layouts. The control levers on the USP Compact and the SP2022 are easily useable for most shooters. Both share the same capacity of 12rds when chambered in .40 S&W and both can shoot .357 Sig with nothing more than a barrel swap.

Their mags are well made and since both are marketed as "compact" guns. The frames while slightly shorter are still comfortable since both magazines have a small finger rest on their magazines.

IBiVaLm.jpg

They both shoot well, have little to no recoil, are easy and light to carry, are simple to take apart and work on, and are both in my opinion excellent guns of their era. Prior to the insanity of the 2020 panic, you can get a SP2022 for under $400 new and a USP Compact for around $450 used. That is the only major difference between the two. It was the ungodly price for a new USP Compact, which I would never pay out of pocket for. The massive amounts of police trade in guns chambered in .40 S&W meant that there were great deals out there for a USP Compact. But alas... those deals have since dried up.

Both HK and SIG have dipped their toes into the striker fired market and neither of them are going to abandon said market. The P320 is making huge inroads and the VP9 is also doing well. While HK's legacy guns like the USP Compact are selling well, I eventually see them canceling their production soon enough. SIG has already started to slowly close shop on their DA/SA guns and the SP2022 is being treated like the redheaded stepchild and soon enough, I see them shuttering that line too. Eventually, both will go all in with their striker fired guns and stop producing DA/SA guns.

ZDXbjOqh.jpg

5CPbukq.jpg

I'm simply grateful that I was able to snag both of these guns for a great price before the insanity happened.
 

Attachments

  • s-l400.jpg
    s-l400.jpg
    19.7 KB · Views: 3
  • s-l400.jpg
    s-l400.jpg
    22.3 KB · Views: 3
  • skztH2a.jpg
    skztH2a.jpg
    117.4 KB · Views: 3
  • WVjn27w.jpg
    WVjn27w.jpg
    107.9 KB · Views: 1
  • IBiVaLm.jpg
    IBiVaLm.jpg
    66 KB · Views: 1
  • ZDXbjOqh.jpg
    ZDXbjOqh.jpg
    133.5 KB · Views: 1
  • 5CPbukq.jpg
    5CPbukq.jpg
    83.5 KB · Views: 1
I still somewhat regret not picking up a used P30 (in .40) and a 2022 for great prices, both used and in great shape, before all the madness kicked off.

Just didn't have any gun money left at the time, had just bought my Wilson Combat.
 
The P30 never caught my interest.

The USP has always called to me, maybe it's growing up as a kid in the 80's and 90's and the various video game (Rainbow six comes to mind) but they never really felt/feel good in my hand, just something about them and their triggers i never "got" in real life. The P30, however, always felt pretty good in the hand and the trigger was OK, especially the LEM.

The shop I'm thinking of had a few .40 cal p30s for $400 ish, with a soft case and two boxes of ammo. Screaming deal with ammo prices now but pretty good back in February.
 
The best shooting pistols Sig ever made were the original X5/6 models, maybe too big to carry daily but my X6 is by far the most accurate pistol I have shot, excepting the Benelli SP32 I had.
 
I had a USP40 and I wish I still had it, one of the best shooting forties I’ve ever owned. My P30 and P2000 in 9mm are among my best and favorite guns. My P228, P239, P6, and M11-A1 are also among my best and favorites. When I tried out the SP2022 I thought it felt a bit out of proportion compared to my other SIGs, but it is a good pistol on its own merits.
 
I like the SP2022, very soft shooter, nice SA and smooth DA trigger. In my case the slide never stays opened after the last round fired.
I must say, however, that the accuracy has not impressed me and I have certainly experienced being inferior to that of my P226 AL SO.
I'd love to have a USP Compact in my collection.
 
Last edited:
The ergos on the USP and USP Compact fit me fine. I didn't see the need to buy a P30 when they came out since I was fine with what I had. The P30 isn't a bad gun, but it doesn't call me.
I think it's a personal taste. If I have to choose, I'd go for the P2000. As I said, very very similar pistols.
The P30 doesn't let down as far as reliability and accuracy goes.
 
The real rivalry is between Sig and S&W, at least in their advertising.

Sig refers to the 40S&W as ".40 Auto"
Smith & Wesson refers to the .357Sig as ".357 Auto"

Neither of them produce anything for .45GAP...
 
The real rivalry is between Sig and S&W, at least in their advertising.

Sig refers to the 40S&W as ".40 Auto"
Smith & Wesson refers to the .357Sig as ".357 Auto"

Neither of them produce anything for .45GAP...
GLOCK refers to .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .45 ACP as .40 Auto, .357, and .45 Auto.

S&W also calls the .45 ACP as .45 Auto on their semi-automatics.
 
The current rivalry in my collection is between a Glock and Walther. The PPQ M2 models I have are winning me over with their base triggers versus the enhanced triggers on my G43x and G32.
 
Always wanted a 2022 in .40 to convert to both 357 and 9mm.

Sadly, SIG is terrible about keeping their products in inventory even before the panic.

One day, maybe
 
There's no rivalry in my mind. Most guys I know who got into HKs first ended up delving into the SIG world, and vice versa. Just like German motorcars, like one brand, you'll probably like another.

The USP Compact is arguably a better and slightly more ergonomic pistol than the USP (I worked for an employer that issued both for years -- and I still loathe the full-size USP). Given the weight to capacity ration, the Compact make more sense, and for some strange reason feels better in the hand (to me). HK's later pistols though, are much more ergonomic and well-thought out. The P30, HK45 and VP9 are all worthy guns in my opinion, and I like them all. But, I also like all my classic P-series SIG pistols just as much.

The SP 2022 has actually been the issue pistol for a few law enforcement agencies in this country, and several in Europe (maybe the more budget-conscious ones?). I've shot the SIGPro extensively, don't currently own one, but don't think it's a bad pistol ... it just doesn't call to me the way the old P-series do (and yes, even the 320, post-debacle).

Then comments such as this:
I do not own a single Sig or HK product. Very little of what either company makes interests me.
add absolutely zero to a discussion about SIGs and HKs. Ah, well (padding the post count?)

365 is the only thing that brought me back. And I still despise the mushy trigger
Funny, none of my three have "mushy" triggers. Just one man's thoughts, but the "M17 debacle" doesn't seem to be any reason to swear off one manufacturer's entire line of products (unless one requires an excuse to disdain -- and publicly disparage -- any brand; pretty much every gun-maker out there has put forth its share of turkeys, but I've bought, shot and enjoyed other models from many of those companies).
 
You know what they say: "Go SIG or go home!"

re: Special operators, Sig has gone to extra lengths to make a few models water resistant. Afaik H&K has not done so.

index.php


index.php
 
Last edited:
There's no rivalry in my mind. Most guys I know who got into HKs first ended up delving into the SIG world, and vice versa. Just like German motorcars, like one brand, you'll probably like another.

The USP Compact is arguably a better and slightly more ergonomic pistol than the USP (I worked for an employer that issued both for years -- and I still loathe the full-size USP). Given the weight to capacity ration, the Compact make more sense, and for some strange reason feels better in the hand (to me). HK's later pistols though, are much more ergonomic and well-thought out. The P30, HK45 and VP9 are all worthy guns in my opinion, and I like them all. But, I also like all my classic P-series SIG pistols just as much.

The SP 2022 has actually been the issue pistol for a few law enforcement agencies in this country, and several in Europe (maybe the more budget-conscious ones?). I've shot the SIGPro extensively, don't currently own one, but don't think it's a bad pistol ... it just doesn't call to me the way the old P-series do (and yes, even the 320, post-debacle).

Then comments such as this:
add absolutely zero to a discussion about SIGs and HKs. Ah, well (padding the post count?)

Funny, none of my three have "mushy" triggers. Just one man's thoughts, but the "M17 debacle" doesn't seem to be any reason to swear off one manufacturer's entire line of products (unless one requires an excuse to disdain -- and publicly disparage -- any brand; pretty much every gun-maker out there has put forth its share of turkeys, but I've bought, shot and enjoyed other models from many of those companies).
I had a West German P220 that choked on everything. The classic P22x Series guns never won me over. The trigger was "meh". A Beretta 92FS is much smoothers and has a far better reset. Now, my P239 with the SRT is a better gun than the classic P22x line and the P230/232 is a different creature altogether that smokes my Walther PP and PPK. The SP2022 was the largest post war order for handguns. It has served very well with a number of agencies. The largest is the Police Nationale of France. They looked at the SP line (the SP2340 and SP2009) and had SIG design it with more modern features and officially adopted it in 2002. The name SP2022 is from the contract. That SIG must build a gun that will survive 20 years of duty use by the Police Nationale. A number of agencies in the US have issued the SP2022 and its prior incarnations.

I have a USP and a USP Compact. I enjoy both and find the USP to be an excellent duty pistol in .40 S&W. Its magazine capacity is better than its period rivals (the 4006, P226, and 96FS) and it weighs less than them.

HK's later guns are fine. They just don't interest me enough to buy them. The juice for me isn't worth the squeeze in additional price.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top