Colt Frame welded?

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BigBlue 94

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So I was looking closer at the Colt Shooting Master 38, that I inherited from my grandpa, yesterday. On the top of the frame, in the rear sight area, are some things that dont look right to me.

First is the lack of finish, which appears to have been sanded off. Especially on the under side of the strap

Second, is the rainbow streak that looks like it was from heat. (3rd pic)

What happened here??

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There is some holster wear on the barrel, but this other area doesnt look like wear from normal usage. Its obviously been shot a lot. Ive never shot it in the 15 years ive had it.
 
In your first provided picture, slightly in front of the forcing cone and where the barrel shoulder begins, it looks like, from this chair, that the barrels rear edge has been rounded over from burning some severely HOT .38 Special loads.
If that's the case, then pressure may have been the culprit that caused that weak area in the top of the frame to give up and the fix involved welding. If that were my pistol, I'd relegate it ONLY for light .38 Special target loads, like wad-cutters so that revolver spends the rest of its life helping the owner to enjoy it.
 
In your first provided picture, slightly in front of the forcing cone and where the barrel shoulder begins, it looks like, from this chair, that the barrels rear edge has been rounded over from burning some severely HOT .38 Special loads.
If that's the case, then pressure may have been the culprit that caused that weak area in the top of the frame to give up and the fix involved welding. If that were my pistol, I'd relegate it ONLY for light .38 Special target loads, like wad-cutters so that revolver spends the rest of its life helping the owner to enjoy it.

Are you referring to the leading edge of the bore being rounded? I do see what you mean if so. And I DO have a number of 38 spl Bullseye rounds from my gramps that are real light. Flush loaded WCs and all.

I cant really see any actual weld lines, and whatever repair looks great, other than the finish.
 
Has it been welded? Kinda looks like it. The rainbowing certainly suggests a lot of heat. Metal looks odd in you last pic when the top strap meets the recoil shield.
 
Do old Colts have the serial# on the cylinder? If so does it match? If the cylinder gave up and bulged the top strap then that would explain a lot and what you see would be evidence of the repairs.

What I see though is a rear sight that is too wide for the frame and the rainbow coloration seems to be centered around that point. Perhaps that dovetail slot was ground out and the heat of that operation discolored the bluing. I seriously doubt that in its heyday Colt would have let that rear sight leave its factory like that.
 
Looks more like poor storage and poor cleaning process. IMO.

Poor storage? I dont think so. Been in a safe with dehumidifier for as long as its been in my family, with over 100 other firearms that are not like this.

Poor cleaning process wouldn't remove the finish like that or create heat patterns as seen. Yes it does appear to be dirty inside the action. But thats beside the point.
 
Do old Colts have the serial# on the cylinder? If so does it match? If the cylinder gave up and bulged the top strap then that would explain a lot and what you see would be evidence of the repairs.

What I see though is a rear sight that is too wide for the frame and the rainbow coloration seems to be centered around that point. Perhaps that dovetail slot was ground out and the heat of that operation discolored the bluing. I seriously doubt that in its heyday Colt would have let that rear sight leave its factory like that.

I do not know about the sn on the cylinder. I can check though, as that makes good sense.

I hadn't thought about the sight, short of wondering if it was added after manufacture. Its windage adjustable, but certainly looks to be wider than i would think colt would install for a dovetailed sight.

Ill throw a straight edge against the top strap to see how un-straight it really is.
 
Could it be something as simple as someone inappropriately applying heat to free up the rear sight?

All of the heat coloring is centered around the rear sight. Obviously, with a top strap failure repair it would be in that location as well, but in my mind it seems like someone was trying to free up something with heat based on what I can see.

There just doesn't seem to be any signs of fracture.
 
If that's been welded on, whomever did it covered their tracks very well other than the heat coloring.

My thoughts exactly. As i said, I cant see a line that has any resemblance to a weld. But why go through the process of fixing it that well and not refinishing it?

Fyi, the frame is the factory phosphate type finish, but the barrel is blued. And some of the roll stamping on it is slightly filled in. Its not sharp.

Im not ready to hang it on the wall yet... Its in better shape than my New Navy. The shooting master locks up great, just looks suspect.

I think this is gonna require some more in depth investigating.
 
Xray would tell the tale. It isn't that far fetched.
There are plenty of non destructive testing facilities out there. if there are natural gas wells in your area, pipe shops are xraying pipe welds.
 
The area around the firing pin inside the frame should be a pressed-in bushing that's crimped in place with a special round punch with a concave end.
It's so discolored I can't see if in fact there is a separate bushing there.

The frame has been refinished, which can be detected by the flat ends of the hammer and trigger pins. These should be rounded.

There is ejector ratchet impact marks on the breech face, and an imprint of a cartridge case on the bottom of the frame face.
How deep the ratchet impression actually is may indicate the revolver was shot with some HOT loads.
You will see a "ghost" imprint of the ejector ratchet in a Colt fired much at all, but if it's actual indents, it's a sign of hot loads or a revolver with a bad cylinder end shake problem.
The imprint of the cartridge case would be a possible indication of hot loads.

This is one of those mystery gun problems that may never be solved. The damage "looks" like heat damage from welding, but there's no clear indication of polishing or removal of welding marks.
Possibly it was bulged and re-formed using heat, but that's not obvious from the pictures.

In the Colt civilian model double actions there's no serial on the cylinder.
The serial will be stamped on the frame under the barrel, on the crane opposite the frame number seen with the cylinder open, and inside the side plate.
 
The area around the firing pin inside the frame should be a pressed-in bushing that's crimped in place with a special round punch with a concave end.
It's so discolored I can't see if in fact there is a separate bushing there.

I was not sure about them but someone might have brazed the bushing in place after it dislodged and bound up the cylinder.

A similar problem to the first S&W L frame revolvers, they were recalled and once fixed had a M stamp added.
 
As undisturbed as it looks from the outside and the file/sand marks in the 10:00-4:00 and 11:30-5:30 direction inside, that’s the extent of the work done but if you wanted to have it x-rayed, one of these might not be too far from you.

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It almost looks like someone brazed it to reface the face of the frame. That would be my guess, or there was one really stuck sight they had to heat with in an inch of its life to remove.
 
Are you referring to the leading edge of the bore being rounded? I do see what you mean if so. And I DO have a number of 38 spl Bullseye rounds from my gramps that are real light. Flush loaded WCs and all.

I cant really see any actual weld lines, and whatever repair looks great, other than the finish.

If the welding job was indeed, well done, it may have been blended very well to the point of being obscure. The discoloration around that area does cause some wonder as to how it got there.
I've included a picture of an "elderly" Colt .22 Official Police revolver cylinder, if only to see that there is no caliber or serial number designation on the back face.

The "red arrow" points to where headspace actually is, and involved with the cylinder and not the rear end of the barrel:
SORY9Vzl.jpg

Personally, I would not be afraid to shoot .38 Special wadcutter ammunition in that revolver. Those are very low pressure rounds with a fairly soft lead bullet that the cylinder will handle just fine.
 
Thanks for all the insight. Im gonna clean it to try and get a better view of things.

Im leaning towards basically 357 loads being used in it. Maybe ol Elmer got a hold of this one and hotrodded it. Wouldnt that be neat lol, though extremely highly unlikely.
 
...Personally, I would not be afraid to shoot .38 Special wadcutter ammunition in that revolver. Those are very low pressure rounds with a fairly soft lead bullet that the cylinder will handle just fine.

...Im leaning towards basically 357 loads being used in it. Maybe ol Elmer got a hold of this one and hotrodded it...

So you are going counter to well reasoned expert advice? It is chambered in 38 Special. It is built with less than modern steel. Its history is suspect. And you are going to shoot hotter than design spec rounds? Your call, but please tell everyone around you to give them a chance to exit the area before you light 'er off.

Ya know, Ol' Elmer blew his fair share of guns while hot rodding.

Edit - Re-read your post. I guess you are saying that someone else loaded 357 level loads in it. Be safe and enjoy.
 
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