Economics of casting?

I refuse to figure what I've spent in 65 years of casting. Seventy moulds, two bottom pour pots, three cast iron dip pots, five lube-sizers....
But, I can cast for everything I shoot from .222/223 on through 444, 45-70 and 50 and 58 cal ml. Have a couple hundred pounds of old wheelweights, a hundred pounds of refined lead and fifty of soft lead. At my age my kids will inherit most of it. Someone will hit the jackpot at the estate sale.

I've talked about this dozens of times. 99% of what I shoot is cast bullets but casting them yourself has to be a labor of love. I never could get into it as I don't see it as something I would enjoy. My time is limited and it's not something I want to spend it doing. I don't enjoy handloading but do it because it's necessary. I can justify it because it's so much cheaper than buying ammo and I can shoot what I want, not what the factories think will sell. Casting, not so much. To save money casting, free lead is almost a requirement and those sources have mostly dried up. I can buy whatever cast bullets I want to shoot and I don't have to spend hours scrounging and processing scrap lead, then casting, sizing and lubing bullets. No thanks.

WestKentucky said:

Already looking at the FreeChex products myself.

This is gonna be expensive.

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Or make your own.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?200965-Easy-to-build-gas-checkmaker

So you guys figuring labor into a hobby how do you justify shooting? Wouldn't your time be better spent working as all your doing when shooting is blowing money down range.
What's with a hobby taking time away from the family being so bad, do you have to spend every non working moment with the family? I would bet the kids and wife are doing there own thing most evenings and you all aren't setting around the house talking or holding hands.
If you want to get right down to it reloading in general is a waste of time and money, for the cost of all the equipment and components a guy can purchase a bunch of ammo and spend all his free time pestering his family but then again playing with firearms is a big waste of time and money, if you didn't do anything at all just think of all the money saved, extra time to work and time to spend with the family.

CraigC said:

I've talked about this dozens of times. 99% of what I shoot is cast bullets but casting them yourself has to be a labor of love. I never could get into it as I don't see it as something I would enjoy. My time is limited and it's not something I want to spend it doing. I don't enjoy handloading but do it because it's necessary. I can justify it because it's so much cheaper than buying ammo and I can shoot what I want, not what the factories think will sell. Casting, not so much. To save money casting, free lead is almost a requirement and those sources have mostly dried up. I can buy whatever cast bullets I want to shoot and I don't have to spend hours scrounging and processing scrap lead, then casting, sizing and lubing bullets. No thanks.

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I consider bullet casting as work and not something I enjoy. It has been work that I did to shoot cheaply but I'm about out of free lead. After browsing what is available to purchase for casting and shipping expenses I'm hanging up my molds when the last of my lead supply is gone. I'm retired and have time to cast but prefer to just open a box of bullets, especially when they are as cheap as I can make my own. I also look at handloading as work but work I'm willing to do to be able to shoot more and to to have more accurate ammo than I can buy. It's not difficult work as my loading bench is set up where I am comfortable. I just put my my phone on Pandora or a S/XM channel or fire up my mp-3 player on shuffle and work away with music in the background..

If I figured the cost of my hobbies I'm probably paying $60/lb for walleye.

doubleh said:

I consider bullet casting as work and not something I enjoy.

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That is very rationale reasoning. If I didn’t enjoy casting I would do the exact same thing. I have reloading buddy's that get a kick out of me for casting when they can buy their bullets for ultimately less expense and much less time than I have in casting.
As already mentioned, it is a labor of love not financial or time saving that’s for sure.

Muddydogs said:

So you guys figuring labor into a hobby how do you justify shooting? Wouldn't your time be better spent working as all your doing when shooting is blowing money down range.
What's with a hobby taking time away from the family being so bad, do you have to spend every non working moment with the family? I would bet the kids and wife are doing there own thing most evenings and you all aren't setting around the house talking or holding hands.
If you want to get right down to it reloading in general is a waste of time and money, for the cost of all the equipment and components a guy can purchase a bunch of ammo and spend all his free time pestering his family but then again playing with firearms is a big waste of time and money, if you didn't do anything at all just think of all the money saved, extra time to work and time to spend with the family.

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It's real simple. You either do it because you enjoy it or you do it to save money. If you do it for enjoyment, then you naturally would not factor in your time/labor and no further justification is necessary. If you do it to save money, then you would absolutely factor in your time/labor and it can be difficult to justify the investment of time.

I don't have to spend every non-working moment with my family, "pestering" them. I would just rather spend what free time I do have shooting, doing leatherwork, working on knives or muzzleloaders, or some other shooting/hunting related project, working on my old truck, smoking a cigar, reading, etc., etc., than casting bullets.

It depends solely on the individual. For some people, handloading and casting IS a hobby. There are some of those who even enjoy casting and handloading more than shooting. Which is fine, I've always been jealous of those folks. For others, myself included, it is a chore to feed a hobby. My "hobby" (I detest that word) is firearms, hunting and shooting. Handloading is a chore necessary for hunting and shooting. Casting bullets is one I choose not to do and buy them instead. We all make choices about how to spend whatever time we have. Most of us who are not retired have a lot less time, so we must choose carefully. I simply choose to spend my extra time doing something other than casting, because I see no enjoyment or profit in it. So what would be the point?

WestKentucky said:

...I don’t like being at the mercy of panic buyers.

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A more honest assessment is being at the mercy of your own planning, or lack of planning. How many times have we all read that a two, three or even four year supply of ammo/components in the basement is prudent to ride-out these panic events? But it often takes experience on the short end of the stick to fully appreciate the impact and take appropriate action. Live and learn. All you newcomers to firearms, pay heed.

Targa said:

That is very rationale reasoning. If I didn’t enjoy casting I would do the exact same thing. I have reloading buddy's that get a kick out of me for casting when they can buy their bullets for ultimately less expense and much less time than I have in casting.
As already mentioned, it is a labor of love not financial or time saving that’s for sure.

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I have posted before that I like to make things. I usually have one or more projects in the works or am busy dreaming up something. Bullets are something I have no interest in making except for the cost saving. I'm kind of looking forward to when my free lead is gone.

mdi said:

I am sooooooo glad I quit counting pennies for my hobbies. Now if I were a CPA and like to figger out cost per steps/distance shoes would wear out, maybe I'd attach $$$ to my casting/reloading hobby. If I purchased new alloy, I might be able to predict a cost per bullet, but what to do when I blend alloy? Some alloy components I've had for 40 years and don't know what they cost. I have scrounged free WW, some old scuba weights and have found sinkers. How do I add that to cost? If I lubed my cast bullets I could add the cost of lube if I bought it new. Home made lubes from who knows what items (some stolen from Ma's kitchen) and blended at home would be more involved than I care to try. Gas checks? I made some out of soda cans so how co I figger the cost there? I forgot about costing out alloy; do you count the cost as purchased or do you weigh the alloy after cleaning/smelting and determine cost from there? Has anyone thought about utilities cost for running an electric casting pot, or propane for a turkey fryer?

Yeah, sometimes I get frustrated seeing someone want to assign a money values to reloading/casting. but actually I really don't care. If you want to compute cost every time you pull the trigger, well fine. I also just want a newer reloader/caster to see the other side of the story...

I cast bullets because it's fun, very satisfying, and I like to.
I reload because it's fun, greatly satisfying (especially when I use my cast bullets) and is a great pass time. And I like to.

I think I'm just going to go have a fish sandwich that cost about .$2.75. ($.17 per slice of bread. Mayo $.15. Slice of cheese, $.22. To get the fish; Bait, $.50 per hook. Gas to get to fishing hole $2.00. Fishing license $30.00. Price if fish at the market, $6.00 per lb.. Someone else figger this out, I'm just gonna eat it and enjoy)

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Amen Brother

This thread reminds me, I need to fire up the pot and cast some more bullets.

I began casting to load an odd ball that wasn't widely available. When I was able to scrounge more range scrap than I used, money that would have gone to Missouri Bullets went to mold makers and I haven't looked back. Every mold I've purchased has paid for itself and other reloading tools many times over.

I love threads like this, when each opinion is valid from the perspective of the viewer. I started casting about 2 years ago because I was going through 300 rounds a week for weekly competitions, all FMJ 9mm. I started casting and powder coating so I didn't have to practice with the good stuff. Turned out the cast was just as accurate as the name brand bullets I was reloading. Then... the beer crisis... All the clubs and comps I was shooting are shutdown due to the ... beer crisis. Ok... been expanding my casting setup and now do 9, 10/40, 45, 223 and 12 gauge slugs. I retired during this ... beer crisis... because: to hell with it. Time no longer an issue.
When I was in my 20's, I really wanted a custom built jazz guitar built by Bob Benedetto. He wanted 5 grand, much more than my total net worth at the time. Fast forward quite a few years, I bought his book on how to build those instruments, got some wood and a few tools and banged one out in a few months. It was a little crude, but it played and sounded great. Encouraged, I spent many thousands on tools and built many fine instruments since, all for my own amusement and pleasure, never thinking of selling any. I guess when you spend that kind of time on something, parting is really hard. But the upshot is, I learned how to do it, learned fine woodworking and instrument theory and building. If I had taken the money I spent on the tools, I could have commissioned anything I wanted from any builder... but it would never have been the same as sitting down with an instrument that I built from scratch, exactly to my specifications and hands.
If it was only about money, I'd only shoot 22lr. If it was only about time, I'd never have considered reloading 35 years ago at all. For me, it's about what makes that tick and can I make it tick better. I guess that's what I've always been paid to do, why not do it for myself?

About 10 years ago, you could buy lead ingots for the same price as an equal weight of cast bullets—and the cast bullets often came with free shipping. Can’t get range lead, can’t get enough lead wheel weights, and have no energy to scrounge any more.

Casting bullets is just that casting bullets to most people. Others like myself consider casting bullets an art that can and will pay for itself. The true value of casting is in the knowledge a caster acquires/learns as they progress. When I started casting for myself in the 80's there was no internet or large groups of people to ask questions. I read, ask what local talent there was, hit gun shows and would talk for hours with other casters.

Quality molds were hard to come by and if I saw a cramer, H&G, old/obsolete/unusual molds or mold catalogs I bought them.

When I started casting I didn't have much time (worked 2 jobs/70+ hours a week with drive time) and no extra $$$. My 2nd son was born the year I started casting, 2 boys in 3 years. I couldn't afford to shoot factory 38spl wc's & decided to find a way to make it happen.

If you don't have the time or don't like casting then don't do it.

If $$$ is keeping you from casting you're not putting enough thought into it.

Someone in an earlier post mentioned "From Ingot to Target" I believe.
Here is the link, a must read;
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

It all starts with lead/alloys and finding them. Ya, the days of ww's are either gone or almost gone. But what ever happened to go big or go home??? Heck in the past (7 years ago) I've driven 200+ miles to buy a sailboat keel. Turns out the guy I bought it off of had 4 more and I bought them all. Last year I found a company that had 1900# of mono-type.

Lead is a commodity & that commodity is what makes casting bullets, reloading, firearms pay for itself.

The guy that had the keels was a hoarder that had a bunch of lead and was moving. He could carry the pile of ingots he had but didn't want to move the keels. Ended up buying them (5 keels/3000#) for $250. Didn't need the lead but it took 2 day to cut them up and turn them into ingots That I sold for $.50 a #, $1500. By the time I got done with the gas, propane and 3 days of my time I ended up with $1000 in my hands.

The 1900# of mono-type was a lot easier to deal with. It was +/- 60 miles away and they loaded it for me. Took a day to unload and put it in 25# boxes. Called every local gun club in my area and let them know had in original forum (not turned into ingots) mono-type for sale for $1.50 a #. Took less them a week to sell. Bought it for $1 a # and made $950 minus a tank of gas for the truck ($50).

This is how I paid for my 1st bottom pour pot, a lee #20 and my 1st mold, a 6-cavity H&G #50 wc mold. Back in the 80's when I wanted to start casting and didn't really have the time definitely didn't have the $$$. I knew I'd need lead to cast bullets with. I scrounged whatever I could find. Back then ww's were free and pure lead was highly sought after by the bp guys. I got enough pure lead together & sold it to pay for the pot & mold. Got more together and sold it to pay for a lyman 450 luber/sizer and dies.

I joined a gun club in 1990 and they had 2 pistol ranges and a rifle range with berms. I'm not allowed to dig up the berms looking for lead but after a hard rain it's nothing to take a rake and clean the berms of debris including buckets of recovered bullets. When smelting those bullets down into usable ingots a bi-product is copper jackets.


I also pick up brass from the ranges and either use it, sell it or scrap it. The local scrap yards buy the brass and copper jackets.


Some years are better than others


While I'm there I always look around and buy lead off of them if it looks worth while. Why buy lead when I'm getting it for free??? Simple enough, take the free $$$ from the copper jackets/brass and turn into more $$$ along with picking up materials to make specific alloys with.

Bought this with that $91.50 receipt pictured above for $.25 a # while I was there at the scrap yard.


The pure lead pipes I turned into ingots and sold for $1 a #, those 3 pigs (10# bars) were marked mono-type and a company name I sold for $2 a #. I sold the solder for $2 a #. Ended up with my $91.50 back + enough to cover the gas and the 1/2 bucket of lead was free.

Anyway been selling the copper jackets since 1990 and using the $$$ to buy molds, sizers, dies, powder, primers, etc. I also sell off the extra free lead I get every year. 150# (20 minutes work raking the berms & around the steel targets) turns into copper jackets to sell and 100# of ingots.


I typically get 300#+ of ingots a year doing this.

At the end of the day lead is $$$, couldn't even begin to tell you how much $$$ I've made over the years. But I do take that $$$ and put it back into what I do. Which is cast bullets, reload ammo, shoot firearms.

Funny that freecheck gc makers and gas checks were brought up. There's pretty good $$$ to be made with these things. I make my own out of scrap metal I have laying around. Made gas check makers for the 22cal, 30cal, 35cal & 44cal bullets. They don't look like much but the wide base flat out works.


30cal gas checks on a nose pour eagan bullet.


Nothing like free gas checks!!!

I use better material (eye candy) to make the ones I sell & typically make 8 to 10 of them a year in my spare time and sell them for $100 apiece. With the $$$ I buy coil stock to make my own gc's, any tooling/materials needed to make the gc makes. The rest goes into a play fund for firearms, reloading equipment, scope, molds, reloading supplies, etc.

IF I want gunpowder I make up a couple gc makers or take a little $$$ out of the play fund.


Wanted a new s&w 686, cranked out some gc makers.


1911 range toys 45acp & 9mm the $$$ came from selling gc makers


Just had to have it. A unused (nib) hollow based mold the hollow based version of the keith 358429


Same with the cramer #26, just had to have it. the hp version of the keith 358429


Or a unissued still in cosomoline mas 45


Anyone care to see a picture of the nib anschutz 54 x-barreled rifle I bought, still has the packing oil (turned to jelly now) on it????

Anyway, same thing let 1 thing pay for other things. Free lead and free copper jackets buys things like lathes/tooling that in turn can make things that are turned into more $$$. Which in turn ends up being turned into things that are pictured above.

I got my start in casting to supply my bp shooting addiction. The various sizes of roundball just aren't available locally.

For those that don't like casting, I do my casting in two or three sessions every year. I set up my equipment and extra ventilation on a winter day. Fire up the woodstove and spend a couple of afternoons pouring and casting balls and bullets. I estimate my needs for the upcoming year. Its a labor of love.
FYI , it doesn't have to be as difficult or complicated as some make it out to be.....but....the LEE production pot makes it easy.

I've never casted bullets but have fishing baits for 40+ years. A few years ago my supplier of special head jigs passed away so my supply chain dried up His wife and son had not made a decided to do with the business. So I ended up having to machine my own molds in order to keep a supply of my crappie jigs. I had talked to many persons in the industries and NO ONE had ever seen jigs likes these except from my 1 source. My fishing partner tried every gig he could find commercially and none stacked up to these. These specially designed heads gave the jigs a unique action that worked when nothing else would. So I have been back to casting due to necessity. I find it enjoyable to tie jigs. Like any hobby you don't count your time, it's entertainment.

Casting bullets would be the same but the kicker to me would be the lead supply chain.

Forrest, you are the definition of "Plan your work/work your plan" Well done!

Won't even get into the $$$ I've made making/selling swaging equipment. The only reason I bring it up is that it's easier to cast the lead cores that cut them from wire.

Molds are flat out $$$, good molds not only hold their value they increase in value faster that cheap molds. Years ago (80's) when I 1st started casting for myself I would buy any steel mold that was cheap. I would buy odd/special/custom aluminum molds or brass molds on occasion. I'd sit on them and would only sell them if I got top $$$ for the common molds to turn the $$$ into more molds. Ended up with 200+ molds this way & started selling them off +/- 10years ago. Not only did I have use of those molds for 25 years+ I was getting 700% to 1000%+ on what I paid when I sold them.

I took that $$$ and did reinvest in some molds, like Mihec molds. Like his molds and ended up with 15? 20?, don't know and won't bother counting. Took a year off work and went fishing/shooting/casting bullets/ bbq/ iced down beverages/ect.

I still have a bunch of custom molds & obsolete molds/ extremely hard to find mods, that I use. Along with ability to pretty much buy any mold that I want.

Anyone that says they can't afford to cast bullets or don't have the time should sit down and take a hard look at what they want out of life. When I started casting I was flat broke, had 2 baby's (new born & 2 year old). Worked 1 full time job in a factory taking all the overtime I could get. That check got handed over for bills, I worked construction & side jobs to pay for my vehicle, ins, gas, cloths, a 6 pack of beer once a week, ect.

You give a 16 year old a car and more often then not, it ain't gonna last. A 16 year old works for years saving their $$$ for a car, their going to take care of it.

Myself I found a way & in doing so it's not only paid for my hobby's. I'm getting $$$ on the back end to this day. Next couple of years I'll be selling everything off, molds, swaging equipment, reloading equipment, firearms, bullets, brass, primers, powder, firearms, the works. Been looking at houses/property on lakes, might as well let my hobby pay for that too.

Like panfish, down right tasty like these cold water crappie (there's a 10" perch hidden down at the bottom)

Blue68f100 said:

I've never casted bullets but have fishing baits for 40+ years. A few years ago my supplier of special head jigs passed away so my supply chain dried up His wife and son had not made a decided to do with the business. So I ended up having to machine my own molds in order to keep a supply of my crappie jigs. I had talked to many persons in the industries and NO ONE had ever seen jigs likes these except from my 1 source. My fishing partner tried every gig he could find commercially and none stacked up to these. These specially designed heads gave the jigs a unique action that worked when nothing else would. So I have been back to casting due to necessity. I find it enjoyable to tie jigs. Like any hobby you don't count your time, it's entertainment.

Casting bullets would be the same but the kicker to me would be the lead supply chain.

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Cast my own jigs, split shot and sinkers as well. Don't know why but I luv panfish and catching them on ul equipment. These 1/64th oz dart headed jigs coupled with trout magnets and tipped with crappie nibbles slayed the panfish last spring. Nothing better then going out in a kayak and fishing the edges of the weed beds.


Caught those crappie's pictured in the post above using 2 of them in tandem +/- 20" apart. I only kept the crappie that were 13" or longer (fish ohio's), tossed 40/50 crappie back catching them. I get a lot of doubles with that setup


As the water gets warmer I switch over to drop shots with the splitshot I cast and go for the bluegill & perch.


The catfish are just a bonus


Sorry for the thread drift.
There's more things to cast besides bullets.

EMC45 said:

Forrest, you are the definition of "Plan your work/work your plan" Well done!

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Thank you for that, but at the end of the day I'm just a guy that wanted something he didn't have time for & could not afford. I found a way earning every $$$ and a lot of hard learned lesions.