.380 FMJ For Self-Defense?

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Look at the Lucky Gunner tests. I use Hornady American Gunner rounds with xtps in my Ruger LCP Custom. My magazines in winter also have a few fmj rounds included just in case. I like your idea of using flat nose rounds over pointy fmj. I use the 380 sometimes with pants w/o belts and elastic or draw strings because they are lighter but I much prefer a snub revolver because it seems to come to hand much more readily than the shape of a small auto. Even with a short .38 or .44 special, expansion is still a bit iffy and you can go one step beyond a flat nose with full flat wadcutters.
 
380 with the best hollow points is marginal for self defense.
380 with FMJ - Nope, get one of the best hollow points.
The goal of SD is ASAP incapacitation, larger holes have more ASAP potential.
Lucky Gunner testing hows a couple of 380 loads that penetrate at least 12'' and consistently expand.
If I had to carry 380 (thank God I don't) I would obtain HP ammo that meets at least 12'' penetration and consistently expands.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
 
LookAtYou said:
What do you think of .380 FMJ, not Hollow Points, for Self-Defense? Do you think it has good enough ballistic properties? More than enough? Not enough? I plan carrying a Glock 42 with a +2 extension, for a total of 9 rounds of .380 Flat-Nose FMJ rounds.

.380 FMJ round has a .356" diameter btw.
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'Testing', yes I know, shows decent 380 may go right thru who you are shooting at..means people in the background may be at risk. 380 FMJ outta of a similar barrel length(and G42 barrel pretty long in comparison, about same length as Glock 26)'about' the same penetration as 9mm. I think there is a lot of 'noise' about using FMJ, vs 'defensive' ammo..where the chances of actually using the firearm is really small. If you have the choice, sure, use 'defensive' ammo..but if you don't, FMJ will probably be fine.

What is keeping you from getting some carry rounds of 'defensive' ammo?
 
Armored farmer said:
We all know that choosing a. 380 as a defensive round is a compromise. That is given. Some of us live and work in extremely low crime environments.
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A handgun is a compromise. PLUS many 'low crime' environments are also fairly 'wealthy' environments..that can attract 'bad guys'...

Many, many reasons to carry a good 380(I cary a G42 about 1/2 of the time), instead of something else. There is NO way I could carry a full sized 40, 45 or 10mm.
No way I could comfortably shoot any of those or any small 9mm.

Not a 'given' at all. I have seen tests(yes, I know)..where a Lehigh Xtreme defender in 380 outperforms a 9mm JHP out of a short barreled handgun. 380 Much better wound channel, better penetration and much better thru barriers, cloth, denim, etc...

YMMV and all that.
 
FMJ for me. I've had four different .380 subcompact pistols and there has been no compatibility in JHP reliability. They all seem to like something different. I had settled on Fiocchi xtp but now it seems less than 100% in my Beretta Pico so I'm back to FMJ. Make sure you really like and trust a gun before wasting time finding the perfect self defense ammo, I'm tired of the hunt. With ammo prices being what they are it's going to be FMJ for years to come.

For the record, I had a Taurus TCP that ate anything but was stolen. I replaced it with another TCP that broke on the first magazine. Then I tried a Ruger LCP that didn't even work with FMJ and was objectionable to shoot, which is how I ended up with a Pico.
 
My .380 of choice is the Glock 42. I shoot it in GSSF competition and practice with it a couple times a month. Mine functions flawlessly and I feel confident within 12 yards. I'm not looking for a gunfight and will avoid one if I can. I could make headshots at 10 yards if the target is not shooting back. Otherwise, it's 6 shots center mass. Hope my skills are never challenged. Inside my house I have a variety of heavier duty weapons, but my 42 goes with me where ever I go.
 
Carry what makes you feel comfortable.
For me I think the loads with XTPs offer a good balance of penetration with some expansion.
If they don't expand then its just like a FMJ.
.380 is on the low end of what is enough, but any gun you have with you would be better than no gun at all.

I was kidnapped and shot with a .380 using FMJs. Bullet passed between my femur and my femoral artery. (lucky it missed the artery or I might not be typing this)
The results might have been different if a hollow point of a larger caliber was used....
 
Dudedog said:
Carry what makes you feel comfortable.
For me I think the loads with XTPs offer a good balance of penetration with some expansion.
If they don't expand then its just like a FMJ.
.380 is on the low end of what is enough, but any gun you have with you would be better than no gun at all.

I was kidnapped and shot with a .380 using FMJs. Bullet passed between my femur and my femoral artery. (lucky it missed the artery or I might not be typing this)
The results might have been different if a hollow point of a larger caliber was used....
Click to expand...

you can't just drop the "I was kidnapped and shot" bomb and not tell us the story.
 
Armored farmer said:
Some of my scientific "tests" of .380 performance:
View attachment 964924 Circa 2016
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-funny, we definitely get zukes in Illinois.
My wife's family (near matoon) joke that you know your cars been broken into if there's a pile of zukes left on the seat.- I guess that's a long running funny thing they do to each other .
 
Dudedog said:
Carry what makes you feel comfortable.
For me I think the loads with XTPs offer a good balance of penetration with some expansion.
If they don't expand then its just like a FMJ.
.380 is on the low end of what is enough, but any gun you have with you would be better than no gun at all.

I was kidnapped and shot with a .380 using FMJs. Bullet passed between my femur and my femoral artery. (lucky it missed the artery or I might not be typing this)
The results might have been different if a hollow point of a larger caliber was used....
Click to expand...
Thanks. Also, your exact example is probably the main relevant reason, besides increased blood loss, of why larger calibers can be better (Ex. Doctor telling a patient a .380 bullet was just 0.5 inches away from your heart). A larger caliber could potentially give that little extra expansion for a completely different outcome. Also the same for penetration, a bullet could have penetrated 1 inch less than needed to hit a vital, for example.

My thing is tho, this comes down to shot placement, and "effective" vs "more effective". Yes, a .40 JHP to both lungs would be very effective, more effective than a .380 FMJ, but my thing is would .380 to both lungs still not be effective? .40 can do more damage than 9, but 9 is still enough. 9 can do more than .380, but .380 is still enough. My main concern would be, is there a point of "This caliber most often doesn't work". I'm ok with a larger caliber expanding more as long as my current caliber is still effective, ya' know? I'm ok with 9mm being more effective than .380, as long as .380 is still effective.

Like what's the bare minimum caliber, there wouldn't be a caliber wars if all calibers worked the vast majority of the time, right? Like are there statistics of like "Ok, anything below X caliber and success rate severely drops"?
 
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I sometimes carry my Beretta 84F, loaded with hot Underwood XTP loads. I feel pretty well armed with the combination. The Beretta carries well, and points like a finger for me. It has proven very accurate at extended ranges, even.
Mine is Israeli surplus, and I bought as more of a bargain priced whim. After I shot it, I changed my tune, it just fit my hand perfectly, and worked. To think that some guy probably patrolled Jerusalem or Tel Aviv with it, but I should be afraid in Cleveland seems laughable.
 
Practice with it. The .380 you have on you will work a lot better than the gun chambered for something starting with a "4" left at home. As far as FMJs go, again practice. I've noticed .380s seem to be a little more picky about ammunition. See what your gun likes best.

FWIW, I frequently carry a Glock 29. The other gun is chambered for .357. If I had a .380 I'd carry it. Not every day, but for running around town I think it would be fine.
 
LookAtYou said:
Thanks. Also, your exact example is probably the main relevant reason, besides increased blood loss, of why larger calibers can be better (Ex. Doctor telling a patient a .380 bullet was just 0.5 inches away from your heart). A larger caliber could potentially give that little extra expansion for a completely different outcome. Also the same for penetration, a bullet could have penetrated 1 inch less than needed to hit a vital, for example.

My thing is tho, this comes down to shot placement, and "effective" vs "more effective". Yes, a .40 JHP to both lungs would be very effective, more effective than a .380 FMJ, but my thing is would .380 to both lungs still not be effective? .40 can do more damage than 9, but 9 is still enough. 9 can do more than .380, but .380 is still enough. My main concern would be, is there a point of "This caliber most often doesn't work". I'm ok with a larger caliber expanding more as long as my current caliber is still effective, ya' know? I'm ok with 9mm being more effective than .380, as long as .380 is still effective.

Like what's the bare minimum caliber, there wouldn't be a caliber wars if all calibers worked the vast majority of the time, right? Like are there statistics of like "Ok, anything below X caliber and success rate severely drops"?
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It's just an impossible question to answer . an elephant may be killed with a single 22lr and a racoon may take 10 rounds of 45 to be quickly killed. Too many variables , angle, clothing, exact shot placement, your targets individual anatomy, ECT. On and on. The best you can do is the best you can do. You already got your answer, yep 380 will most certainly disable an attacker. How long will it take? How longs a piece of string...
 
mokin said:
Practice with it. The .380 you have on you will work a lot better than the gun chambered for something starting with a "4" left at home. As far as FMJs go, again practice. I've noticed .380s seem to be a little more picky about ammunition. See what your gun likes best.

FWIW, I frequently carry a Glock 29. The other gun is chambered for .357. If I had a .380 I'd carry it. Not every day, but for running around town I think it would be fine.
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Thanks, my plan is to have my main carry gun be a Smith and Wesson M&P9 M2.0 Compact 3.6" (15+1),

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-m20-compact?sku=11688

and the Glock 42 for literally whenever I can't carry that. Ruger LCP 2 .380 in the pocket whenever possible as well. That way, I'll always be able to carry something, and often 2 guns at once.
 
Obturation said:
It's just an impossible question to answer . an elephant may be killed with a single 22lr and a racoon may take 10 rounds of 45 to be quickly killed. Too many variables , angle, clothing, exact shot placement, your targets individual anatomy, ECT. On and on. The best you can do is the best you can do. You already got your answer, yep 380 will most certainly disable an attacker. How long will it take? How longs a piece of string...
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Yea, I think I'm gonna try to find some one shot stop stats. I guess I'm imagining, worst case scenario, "I can only get one shot off to the vitals in the chest, what's the minimum size hole I feel confident with. But at the same time, screw what I feel comfortable with, what does real world evidence say.

I just don't wanna delude myself into the "I need a 12 gauge and anything less sucks" mentality. Like I don't subscribe to the "handguns are under powered, you need a rifle" thing. I mean I get it, but at the same time, like bruh.
 
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I like to read these "whatever bullet in whatever caliber" threads but have to wonder about one thing. Just how many responders in these posts have actual experience in seeing what any bullet in any caliber does to a human. I know I will probably get hammered on but that's really the only way to tell. Shoot gelatin, vegetables, bottle of water or soda, meat from the store, whatever, and you will get some idea of the capabilites but it isn't a living, breathing, human. which is what we are usually discussing in a self defense situation. Police and military that have stood up against bad people are excused.
 
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you can't just drop the "I was kidnapped and shot" bomb and not tell us the story.
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I will PM the short version to those who asked, don't want to sidetrack the thread with my story, but wanted to use it as an example.
 
doubleh said:
I like to read these "whatever bullet in whatever caliber" threads but have to wonder about one thing. Just how many responders in these posts have actual experience in seeing what any bullet in any caliber does to a human. I know I will probably get hammered on but that's really the only way to tell.
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True. I guess the legal way would be hearing from law enforcement lol. The other people with experience either don't wanna share their self defense experiences for whatever reason, or don't wanna get caught just yet.
 
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