New RIA XT 22 mag- not too happy with it right now

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NorthBorder

NorthBorder

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20201224_122313.jpg Bought a Christmas present for myself today- a new RIA 22 mag in FDE.
20201224_123445(1).jpg
It caught my eye at the LGS the other day so today I spent my paycheck on it. It is a nice moderately heavy 1911 style (lighter than my RIA 10mm). So this was my "what the hell" purchase. I certainly don't need it except that there was a small space in my vault to fill. Anyway, I like 1911s and this makes my 4th RIA. I really like my other 3. So I gave it a home, took it apart and cleaned and lubricated it. The XT 22 is a fixed barrel ( well, sort of) but otherwise all the controls are much like a regular 1911.
So I went to the range with some CCI 40 gr maxi mag HV and 30 gr TNT, and some Hornady 30 gr
V-Max. I loaded up 10 40 gr and hit paper at about 10 yds. It shot POA pretty well and rounds cycled perfectly.
Things went downhill from there. In all I shot about 100 rds and had about 40-50 % FTE. Somewhere I read that the gun can be finicky with 30 grain so I kinda expected that.
. 20201224_122359.jpg

But 50% ? C'mon!
Clearing them was simple. Just drop the mag and let the slide shut on the spent cartridge, then rack the slide and it ejects.
Reading the gun rags leads one to believe the gun runs flawlessly. Reading other forum threads shows problems with others experiences while many say theirs has run flawlessly. Anecdotally, if it requires a 500 round break-in as I have also read, then I just have another 400 rounds and $120 to go. Whew!
On the plus side, it is a very nice looking gun. Fitment looks very good and I really like the FDE finish.The rails are smooth and not full of burrs or nicks that would slow it down. Feeding does not seem to be an issue. There were maybe 2 FTFs. The front sight is a Hi-Vis and easily acquirable for my old eyes. The trigger has a little creep and take-up. About 1/8th inch and breaks cleanly at what I would estimate to be 4-4.5 lbs. with zero over-travel. Recoil is almost negligible. And it fits in my other 1911 holsters.
I really want to like this pistol.
(Can't seem to get the pics in their right order)
 
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Rimfire guns can be very picky about what they will function with---if it runs CCi 40 grain ammo perfectly---that's what you shoot! Of course, maybe it's just new and needs "break-in" time... I have a VERY expensive Swiss Sig P210-2 9mm pistol along with a VERY expensive factory 22 long rifle conversion unit---it will only function with CCI Mini Mags or Blazer, so that's what I shoot in that gun! Good luck!
 
It's a .22 Mag semi auto, what did you expect? It to run like a Glock?

Clean your chamber, use different ammo, and go from there.
 
Well, they do require a 500 round break-in, from what you said, so I would buy the rounds it functioned with and break it in and then perhaps you can run ammo with lighter bullets.

I wouldn’t beat myself up too bad over it. You now know it functions with a specific type of ammo. If in the end it only functions with that then run it with that. Simple. :)

It’s really no different than finding out that a gun is really accurate with a certain weight and velocity cartridge and has poor accuracy with all others. You run what works.

By the way, that is a cool looking shooter. :cool:
 
TTv2 said:
It's a .22 Mag semi auto, what did you expect?
Click to expand...
A functioning pistol is really too much?

I doubt the chamber is dirty from ten rounds before extraction problems.

I’m sorry your Christmas gift is less then perfect. I would suspect chamber finish problems, over accumulated debris.
If it was dirty, they wouldn’t come right out with a simple cycling, especially after the extractor slipped off the first time.
It’s a blowback, it’s trying to remove the brass while still under pressure. If the chamber is too rough, that won’t happen. It will slip the extractor and try to feed the next one. When the pressures is down, it slides right out.
While a different ammunition may have a faster impulse, I don’t find as much variety in 22Mag as Long Rifle and would make moves to correct the issue.
I would check and maybe polish the chamber with some 40x.

The extractor could very well need attention, unable to hold the case rim while under pressure. But being brand new, and barring any obvious damage or defect, I don’t suspect it from your explanation.

Beyond that, I would have to send it back.:(

Mysteries are fun. It’ll work out.
Have a Merry rest of your Christmas, @NorthBorder.:thumbup:
 
I can understand guns feeling smoother with a long break in, but I do expect them to work while that's going on. We should not be the final finisher.

Sorry about your Christmas present.
 
I cleaned and lubed it thoroughly today and took it out again. Using CCI maxi mag 40 gr. only 2 hiccups in the 1st 20 rounds. The next 30 began to show problems about 30% of the time. Then I tried CCI 30 gr v-max and the trouble just continued. So I sent Armscor a polite message asking for assistance. Hopefully, they will remedy the problem.
Thing is, I still like this gun.
 
I have had some guns run fine out of the box, some were not as happy until they had some rounds thru them.
When brand new my Kahr P380 would not function of any of my reloads at start charges and on up the ladder until I got to the ones with close to/MAX charges.
A couple 100 rounds later it was less picky.
Hopefully once you get some more rounds on it it will get "happy"

I have a friend who has a Walter .22 semi auto pistol, basically won't work with any .22 ammo other than CCI Mini Mags. (of course he hasn't tried everything but a couple of flavors were no joy,all of which worked fine in my S+W SW22)
It may just be that it is ammo picky.
 
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Sorry, but that pistol will never run well with 30 gr - simply insufficient recoil energy to cycle the action. Speaking from experience. Clean it well, clean it often, but be very sparing with the lube, and keep your extractor dry!!
 
Oh, and whatever you do, DON'T disassemble it hoping you can tweak it somehow to make it function better, lest yours ends up like mine:

View attachment 965237

This gun has more teeny tiny little parts than anything else I've ever disassembled, and heaven forbid you lose something like the blowback delay plunger and spring, which I can hardly even see, even with my reading glasses!!
 
The .22 magnum cartridge in a selfloading blowback firearm has had troubles, trying to get the perfict balance of recoil spring strength, bolt weight and particular cartridge strength, so the selfloading .22 magnum has a reputation of being finicky.
If the handgun was a delayed blowback system the reliability might just be a non-issue?
Of it should have a locked breech system?
 
I have several males, models over the years of 22 mag autoloaders
In discussing “near 100%” reliably and no ammo “sensitivity” I am left with my brno 611s (rifles)

Everything else I have had requires diligence in cleaning, ammo choice, hold choice etc.



(don’t get me going on wmr accuracy at 100y, something I still chase)
 
Demi-human said:
So, not a pure blow back? Interesting.

You know that makes me want one more, right?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's delayed blowback. There's a little plunger and spring in the fixed barrel sleeve that I believe is there to introduce a recoil delay between the internal barrel and the external sleeve upon ignition. Here's a pic I stole off DuckDuckGo with added crude arrow pointing to the plunger:

View attachment 965330
 
Is it normal that the extractor pin protrudes so much from the top of the slide?
From your second range trip report, it seems the chamber gets dirty very quickly and from that point problems increase. As been said before it could be a rough chamber. I'd also check the extractor tension. Have you tried to manually cicle the rounds from the magazine to see what happens?
 
22 pistols always suprise me when they DO work well out of the box. 22mag even more so. Break down what design features makes a semiauto pistol work... short cases with a bit of taper, almost exclusively rimless. Even at that a lot of times the bullet slaps chamber and guides it’s way in. A 22 is long, straight, and rimmed. The heeled bullet will turn in the case if it slaps the chamber walls. They are finicky for a number of reasons, and a 22 mag just amplifies all of the features that make it finicky. There are however several designs that just flat out seem to work in 22lr but nobody has ever truly had a reliable 22mag pistol. Keltec’s recent offering seems to be among the more reliable, but still it’s not nearly as reliable as just about anything else.
 
I guess I'm screwed on break-in if it's turns out to be required. I bought one of these Monday. Monday and Tuesday weren't very nice weather wise and I had the cataract removed from my dominant eye Wednesday so I haven't shot mine yet because my vision has to become a little bit clearer and then I have to find the proper cheater for front sight distance at arm's length. I only have 200 rounds of ammo and there is none to be had that I can find. Things should be going my way vision wise by the middle of next week and I'll see if I have a problem child or not then.
 
Plastikosmd said:
I have several males, models over the years of 22 mag autoloaders
In discussing “near 100%” reliably and no ammo “sensitivity” I am left with my brno 611s (rifles)

Everything else I have had requires diligence in cleaning, ammo choice, hold choice etc.

(don’t get me going on wmr accuracy at 100y, something I still chase)
Click to expand...

Actually the best .22 magnum accuracy from a rifle so far I tried was a Taurus 73 carbine.
I think its their Taurus muzzle crown method.

As to .22 mag self loaders, i knew of 2 in town, one a Grendel P-30 that was ammo senseative provided you loaded the magazine properly, same with one my co-workers that had a AMT Automag II, the Grendle guy had it as a plinker, the AMT guy took his hunting in a shoulder holster (snowmobiling) the AMT would jam sometimes but the guy seems OK with that.
 
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wiscoaster said:
Yes, it's delayed blowback. There's a little plunger and spring in the fixed barrel sleeve that I believe is there to introduce a recoil delay between the internal barrel and the external sleeve upon ignition
Click to expand...

I don't believe the plunger and spring have much to do in delaying blowback. The way they are installed seems if anything to shorten the delay caused by the interaction between barrel and barrel shroud as the slide is reciprocating.

The " delay" is just the extra mass of the barrel and slide moving back together until the barrel and barrel shroud separate, then the much lighter slide moves back alone.

The spring and buffer seems to soften the blow between the barrel and barrel shroud as the slide returns to battery.

22 magnum unfortunately has never been known for either dependability or accuracy

The manufacturer recommends nickle plated brass.
 
Bwana John said:
...The way they are installed seems if anything to shorten the delay caused by the interaction between barrel and barrel shroud as the slide is reciprocating...
Click to expand...
Maybe the term "delaying blowback" is inappropriate. Maybe the term delayed blowback "timing control" is more appropriate. It's there for a reason. It's a delayed blowback action. It has something to do with that. Whether it's there to slow it down or speed it up. Slowing it down makes more sense wrt the purpose of delaying blowback in the first place. It's definitely intriguing, no doubt. Maybe Demi-Human will get one and figure it out and let us know. ;)
 
wiscoaster said:
Maybe the term "delaying blowback" is inappropriate.
Click to expand...
Absolutely appropriate, though it’s effectiveness my be in question.:)


After reviewing a schematic and finally finding a decent article on the pistol, I am even more interested in this pistol. Specifically, I want one made in 32auto.
Scratch that. New cartridge for a new pistol, the 32 Super!:D

American Rifleman suggests this to be a return to battery buffer. It is not.
The plunger and spring are akin the the bolt spring in a piston operated AR. It keeps the breech shut while the barrel and slide move together, waiting for pressure to subside, then the barrel stops and the slide continues the rearward cycle. Hopefully removing the spent case in the process.

(In an op-rod AR the bolt spring keeps the bolt shut while the carrier movers rearward to engage cam slot, unlocking the bolt with the carrier and positively relocking it upon return to battery. These forces are accomplished by the gas’s rings in an impingement AR.)

Now, @NorthBorder, I’d like to check that the plunger is of the correct length and that is operates smoothly, to prevent early unlocking, resulting in extraction failure from trying to remove the case while under high pressure.
And also ensure that the barrel moves freely inside the shroud. Be sure that the muzzle area is smooth and clean, since the sooty combustion gas will be collecting between the barrel and shroud.

And then cross your fingers, we’re pulling for you!:thumbup:
 
Thanks!! That was kind of my theory of operation, though I don't have the command of the technical details to express it as well as you did. :thumbup:
 
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