JCooperfan1911
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Does anyone one the KelTec sub 2000?
does it really offer any accuracy benefit over a Glock?
does it really offer any accuracy benefit over a Glock?
Sub 2000 help
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ECVMatt
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Just my guess...by looking at the type of weapons that you seem to admire and your lack of enthusiasm for the Ruger PC Carbine, I don't think that you will like the KelTec. If you can appreciate it for what it is, then they are great guns. They are LCD type of weapon, but one that works. I do think that most PCC have an accuracy advantage over my Glock 17.
wiscoaster
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If you're looking for accuracy in a 9 mm PC carbine, the Beretta CX-4 is the one to go with.
If you're looking for range tacticool, go with the Kel-Tec.
If you're looking for a middle of the road approach to get a little of both, get a Hi-Point and stick it in a High Tower bullpup chassis:
If you're looking for range tacticool, go with the Kel-Tec.
If you're looking for a middle of the road approach to get a little of both, get a Hi-Point and stick it in a High Tower bullpup chassis:
Mosin Bubba
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I've got one. It's impossible to fairly compare it to a Glock, but the Keltec is much more accurate.
I bought mine over a Ruger PCC mostly because of the weight. The Keltec is nearly half as much, and it is stripped to the bone while some parts of the Ruger just seem like overkill. A heavy barrel on a 9mm, are you kidding me...
The Sub 2K is admittedly not the most refined as a range shooter, it has a stiff trigger that feels like you're trying to pull it on safety and the folding feature makes mounting optics a challenge. But the foldy-barrel really does work and never stops being cool, and the whole thing makes for a cheap and cheerful 50 yard shooter. I think of it as a +$100 Hi Point upgrade that loses a lot of pot metal and adds a bunch of cool factor.
I bought mine over a Ruger PCC mostly because of the weight. The Keltec is nearly half as much, and it is stripped to the bone while some parts of the Ruger just seem like overkill. A heavy barrel on a 9mm, are you kidding me...
The Sub 2K is admittedly not the most refined as a range shooter, it has a stiff trigger that feels like you're trying to pull it on safety and the folding feature makes mounting optics a challenge. But the foldy-barrel really does work and never stops being cool, and the whole thing makes for a cheap and cheerful 50 yard shooter. I think of it as a +$100 Hi Point upgrade that loses a lot of pot metal and adds a bunch of cool factor.
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armedwalleye
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I’ve got one, a Gen 2 with the multimag option, and installed the S&W 5900 mag release so it would share mags with my Third Gen S&W pistols. Got some 30 round stick mags, and it’s a hoot to shoot. I’ve opened up the rear peep sight a bit, and have plans for a laser for it. Had a red dot, but really didn’t like giving up the folding ability. Tried it on a 45 degree offset on the left side, but as a left handed shooter found a general dislike for hot brass down my shirt sleeve. I do like the shared magazine capability, and have no problem even with steel cased Tula and Wolf ammo.
As to carbine vs a pistol, I do think it’s hard to compare one to the other; I prefer to think they each have strengths that complement one another.
As to carbine vs a pistol, I do think it’s hard to compare one to the other; I prefer to think they each have strengths that complement one another.
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Txhillbilly
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I have a Sub 2k Gen 2 as well as a Ruger PCC in 40 S&W. Both guns are very accurate. I have upgraded the Sub 2k with most of the MCARBO parts, and also installed the Volquartsen trigger assemble in the Ruger PCC.
Each gun serves a different purpose for me. I carry the Kel-Tec in a custom made carry case that looks like a laptop case. It's very concealable, and can be deployed in a few seconds when needed. The Ruger, even though it takes down is a pretty bulky carbine. It takes a decent sized backpack to conceal it, and then it takes longer to assemble and load a round into the chamber over the Kel-Tec.
Each gun serves a different purpose for me. I carry the Kel-Tec in a custom made carry case that looks like a laptop case. It's very concealable, and can be deployed in a few seconds when needed. The Ruger, even though it takes down is a pretty bulky carbine. It takes a decent sized backpack to conceal it, and then it takes longer to assemble and load a round into the chamber over the Kel-Tec.
halfmoonclip
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The Sub 2000's biggest advantage is its really small size and light weight....if you want something to stash in the trunk, for some kind of upheaval on the road. Everything (mag capacity excepted) should be legal almost anywhere.
For something you want to enjoy on the range, the KelTec is an ergonomic disaster; it's really hard to get down on the sights, but you can hit things with it.
MCarbo makes some parts that actually improve this gun; I have the heavyweight charging handle, which is easier to grasp and eliminates some of the cheek slap.
Still debating parting with mine.
Moon
For something you want to enjoy on the range, the KelTec is an ergonomic disaster; it's really hard to get down on the sights, but you can hit things with it.
MCarbo makes some parts that actually improve this gun; I have the heavyweight charging handle, which is easier to grasp and eliminates some of the cheek slap.
Still debating parting with mine.
Moon
entropy
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Yeah, I couldn't hit consistently in 6" at 100 yards with a Glock, but it was easy with my SUB2000. I sold it after several KaBooms involving steel cased ammo. I bought it as a excrement hitting oscillating blades gun, but if it won't reliably work with steel cased ammo, it was out. Hopefully the new ones are better.
Mosin Bubba
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Worth mentioning too that the charging handle on the Sub 2K is surprisingly stiff; it can be worked easily, but it takes a little practice.
Your first instinct is to give it the all-arm motion like a lawnmower starter pull that works for an AK and like 90% of autoloader rifles, but the heavy spring and one-finger grip attached to the Kel Tec bolt makes that approach a lot more difficult than usual. It works better if you grip the forestock tightly and push forward on it with your support hand while you pull the bolt backwards your firing hand. Basically, you use 2 arms to work the bolt instead of 1. Try it a few times and you'll get it down.
Your first instinct is to give it the all-arm motion like a lawnmower starter pull that works for an AK and like 90% of autoloader rifles, but the heavy spring and one-finger grip attached to the Kel Tec bolt makes that approach a lot more difficult than usual. It works better if you grip the forestock tightly and push forward on it with your support hand while you pull the bolt backwards your firing hand. Basically, you use 2 arms to work the bolt instead of 1. Try it a few times and you'll get it down.
Alex Clayton
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The S2K is FAR from something for everyone but, there is a reason they have never been able to make them fast enough to keep up with demand. I had 2, .40 &9mm. Kept the 9 and if I ever manage to wear it out will buy another. + side, VERY damn short and light, shockingly so. I have for years used mine to carry in a laptop bag and or briefcase. The rifle fits in there with the laptop and no one knows it's there. One rides now at all times with me as a "just in case". Cheap (mine was $300) even now days. One model is made to use several different mags, the other only works with Glock. Once you get one rocking they just work.
- The triggers suck, sights suck, but for what you pay for these you can only expect so much. The Gen 2 has improved the sights a lot. The after market has of course now got a lot of things to make them better for those who want to. They are so light they have a shocking amount of recoil. The .40 I had for years would leave me with a sore shoulder for a day or so after each range session. I had for a while toyed with fitting some kind of recoil pad to it. Of course that light weight is nice for carry though.
These are not really made to be "fun" or target shooting guns. They shine as a gun to pack with you in case something breaks out you can't get away from.
- The triggers suck, sights suck, but for what you pay for these you can only expect so much. The Gen 2 has improved the sights a lot. The after market has of course now got a lot of things to make them better for those who want to. They are so light they have a shocking amount of recoil. The .40 I had for years would leave me with a sore shoulder for a day or so after each range session. I had for a while toyed with fitting some kind of recoil pad to it. Of course that light weight is nice for carry though.
These are not really made to be "fun" or target shooting guns. They shine as a gun to pack with you in case something breaks out you can't get away from.
greyling22
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I have had an ar9, cmmg banshee, cz scorpion, sig mpx, and a sub2000. The folding aspect of the keltec is cool, but otherwise it come up short in every way. Horrible ergos and trigger, rough action, feels like it should sell for $100. Detailed disassembly is a nightmare.
Of the above, in a month, all I'm going to have is the banshee upper. The others all went away in favor of a platform that was better for my needs.
Of the above, in a month, all I'm going to have is the banshee upper. The others all went away in favor of a platform that was better for my needs.
entropy
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Or replace it with the M-Carbo setup. I had a Blue Force charging handle on mine soon after I bought it, worth every penny.
Speedo66
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Tacticool Products also make some accessories for the S2K, including a neoprene receiver cover so you're not putting your face on cold steel.
They also sell a buffer to reduce recoil.
Here's a link: http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/
They also sell a buffer to reduce recoil.
Here's a link: http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/
mondocomputerman
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Here is my gen 1 at 50 yds. Firing the Winchester RA9TA 127 grain +p+.
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Alex Clayton
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Does not surprise me at all someone came up with one for these little rifles. The .40 version boots hell out of you when you run a couple hundred rounds though one. Which is easy to do with them.
Mosin Bubba
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I shot the 40 version of the Sub 2K years ago, one that a friend had. I ran 1 mag through it and handed it back to him, because the bolt tube was just slapping the hell out of me. Had no desire to keep shooting that thing.
Curiosity crept in over the years, "I wonder if the 9mm version is any better", and when I found a Sub 2K 9mm at Sportsman's Warehouse for a good price this summer I decided to pull the trigger. Glad I did. The kick on the 9mm is stronger than you'd expect but it's not objectionable, and this one doesn't slap at all
Curiosity crept in over the years, "I wonder if the 9mm version is any better", and when I found a Sub 2K 9mm at Sportsman's Warehouse for a good price this summer I decided to pull the trigger. Glad I did. The kick on the 9mm is stronger than you'd expect but it's not objectionable, and this one doesn't slap at all
Speedo66
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Looks like that recoil pad is for Gen 2, only.
I still have my one Sub2000 because it folds up and conceals well. I kept the one in 40. IMO, the 9mm recoils more than 9mm ought to. However, most blowback actions do recoil more than say a 5.56 AR.
IMO, you are not going to get anything much better without spending a lot more money. The multiple aftermarket modifications make it something you can work on later.
IMO, you are not going to get anything much better without spending a lot more money. The multiple aftermarket modifications make it something you can work on later.
Robbins290
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I have one, and the accuracy is not even comapraible to a handgun. Rifle VS handgun. But I have used the crap out of the keltec. I prefer the PC9 over the keltec. As the factory sights are cocking handle on the keltec are horrible.
Yes it does and you can find tons of neat accessories for it.
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MySuomi
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I have one in 40 cal. It is an original version. I have upgraded most everything on it (Red Lion precision and MCarbo) and love it. I think everybody made good points on the pros and cons of it. But, I disagree with the Steel ammo problem. I have never had any issues with Steel even before the upgrades.
It also holds its zero after folding and unfolding. The Red Lion upgrade made all the difference in the world on the original version of the Sub2k. Without that rail upgrade it is a lot less fun to shoot.
I like the weapon for what it is. Uses glock mags and have never had any operational trouble. Well I guess that is not exactly true. I have broken two charging handles. It is also a pain to take down. That is the number one negative for me. Makes me only clean it thoroughly when I do an upgrade.
It also holds its zero after folding and unfolding. The Red Lion upgrade made all the difference in the world on the original version of the Sub2k. Without that rail upgrade it is a lot less fun to shoot.
I like the weapon for what it is. Uses glock mags and have never had any operational trouble. Well I guess that is not exactly true. I have broken two charging handles. It is also a pain to take down. That is the number one negative for me. Makes me only clean it thoroughly when I do an upgrade.
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