Can a Charter be fitzed?

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WestKentucky said:
Short answer... probably not.

Long answer... the charter grip frames are detachable units that are attached to the main frame of the revolver by 2 pins and a screw. There is one pin that attaches up near the crane pivot point, a pin in the area of the rear of the trigger guard, and the screw at the rear of the frame. The trigger guard is what bridges the front of the grip frame and the rear of the grip frame. Without the trigger guard the front piece would not be very secure, and the gun would have leverage to work against the 2 remaining parts that would take all of the recoil. With the trigger guard installed it eats up some of the recoil energy and has leverage to keep the recoil energy from shooting all the other bits loose. Removing the trigger guard would be a bad idea on this particular design.
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That’s what it seemed like, just from looking at how it’s designed.

Thank you. Sometimes you need someone to tell you what you already sort of knew.
 
KevininPa said:
Personally I wouldn't do it, but if the shoe fitz.........

min here all week


Made me chuckle. Preacher on radio tonight told a joke. Man goes into a restaurant, orders a bowl of soup. Eating away and enjoying it and sees a fly in the soup. Calls the waiter. “Waiter there’s a fly in my soup!!” “What is it doing in there???” “Looks like it’s doing the backstroke!!!” Lol. Sorry about the off topic :)
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pairof44sp said:
Well, I lost another gunfight this morning, when my dang finger got hung up on the trigger guard again. I’ve had it with these safety gizmos. They’ve got to go.

Q: since Charters have that special trigger guard/ grip assembly, and it’s made of (cast?) aluminum, can the trigger guard still be fitzed?
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They can’t be Fitzed - wrong design - they have to be Spragued. Also known as being de Camped.
 
The worst case I ever saw (pictured) was a pair (2!) S&W Outdoorsman (6" large frame .38s) with the trigger guards cut away.

The first scalloped trigger guard I ever saw was Bill Jordan's, he had great big hands.
S&W even incorporated it on the Texas Ranger commemoratives.
 
Fitz-ing a Charter?
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I wouldn't. For starters, the aluminum grip frame on the Charter Arms isn't going to be as strong as the steel on the Colts from back in the day.

For another, you should read this piece from Darryl Bolke: Why the Fitz. The Fitz modification made sense in light of police carry practice in a particular time and place. Most parts of the Fitz mod (bobbed hammer, short barrel) are still valid, but the cut away trigger guard that folks obsess about, not so much.

Let's see...

The most noticeable modification – and the one that that causes the most hysteria today – was the removal of the front of the trigger guards on Fitz’s modified guns. Again, we look at the era. These guns had heavy double action triggers. They were being advocated to be shot at close ranges that we describe to day with fancy acronyms and initials. Essentially, the Fitz was meant to be deployed while entangled with an opponent during an attack or robbery.

It was an era when men wore much different attire. Heavy, organic-fiber overcoats before our fancy synthetics and modern lightweight materials. Gloves were also made from thicker and stiffer materials, and were not like the thin material types we can make today. These guns were designed to be grasped in the pockets with possibly a gloved hand, lifted out by the triggers that had weights in excess of the gun and fired immediately upon clearing the pockets or the garment. Because of the cut triggers they could also be fired inside the pocket even with gloves. This is not like doing this with a modern striker trigger system. John Fitzgerald had leather holsters sewn in his coat pockets for these guns.
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And,

The era also was very well before we understood about things like startle, overflow and postular disturbance causing unconscious constriction of the hand resulting in a negligent discharge.
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If you really, really want to do it, do it to one of the inexpensive Rock Island Armory Colt clones. And I still think it would be a bad idea. Retro-tacticool.

as always, standard disclaimers apply: IMHO & YMMV.

(BTW, some Charters at one time at least had steel grip frames. I have one the steel grip frames, that I picked up with a small bundle of Charter parts from an online auction. I tried putting it on my Bulldog. It didn't quite fit, and I couldn't get it to seat to the point I could insert the frame pins to hold it in place.)
 
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Good points from the article linked to above...

"So, instead of trying to apply modern doctrine to bad mouth those who set the cornerstones of modern handgun combatives, maybe we should appreciate the work of guys like John Fitzgerald, Charles Askins, Lone Wolf Gonzaullas, Bob Nichols, Rex Applegate and many others who basically wrote the book on the deployment and use of snub revolvers 8-10 decades ago."
 
Elmer Keith described Fitzgerald as doing the town with his wife who liked jewelry.
Roomy pockets of the day let him carry a bigger gun than we now consider usable.
Keith said he usually had a sawn revolver in each front pants pocket and one hand in a pocket at all times.

I am more modern with a smaller gun in a pocket holster.
My only interest in a "Fitz" would be the collector value of a real one, done at Colt while Fitzgerald was there. It is possible to tell a factory job from gunsmith... unless maybe the gunsmith knows the difference and sets out to defraud.
 
Bennj said:
For John Fitz Gerald, worked for Colt from early 1900's. His claim to fame was shortening the barrel to 2", bobbing the hammer, removing the front of the trigger guard, etc., to allow for easier draw from concealment I believe. In my opinion, I wouldn't do that just from a safety perspective. Edited to add I need to spend more time perusing the forum, there's some more info about 'fitzing' in the revolvers subsection regarding slip guns.
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Now that right there looks like a very cool edc revolver, except... What is missing from this picture?
 
Handgunners from that era were experimenting with a lot of things. Elmer Keith spent a year experimenting with slip shooting--something that isn't even really a thing any more except perhaps for some exhibition shooters. They had some interesting ideas, some of which have lasted, some of which are humorous in a modern context. Elmer Keith proposed the idea of patrol cars with sliding windshields so an officer could slide it open and shoot at a fleeing vehicle during a car chase while driving with his other hand.

Did Fitz Specials make sense in the context of the era in which they were conceived? Well maybe, a handful of them were made and used so the arguments for them apparently resonated with a few folks. They were never popular even in that era and they certainly didn't catch on in the long term. There are reasons for that.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the selection of firearms back then was very restricted compared to what we have today. If the available options didn't fit you, your only real option was to modify something you could get your hands on. Today, we have a tremendous selection of firearms and there's far less need to make dramatic modifications.
 
Ohen Cepel said:
Many things out there that I don't think are a bright idea either but are a norm now.

.
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You nailed that. True that is but being the norm in what has become an abnormal world and state of affairs does not provide an excuse nor mean one should do what is clearly a dangerous modification. Everyone else is doing it, well, still not a good idea ;).
 
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golden said:
Considering how many "TRAINED" police officers have shot themselves in the leg when reholstering their sidearms which HAVE A TRIGGER GUARD, I think this is a bad idea.

Jim
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True, and still not saying it is a good idea. However, you can put your thumb on the back of the hammer when you re-holster a revolver to keep it from going off, and the DA is pretty heavy if you're pushing the thing through an entire cycle, plus, have to turn the cylinder with it entering the holster which makes the DA even harder as the cylinder is trying to turn against the holster wall.

Unlike, the current striker fired pistols which you are pretty much stuck if something does get in the trigger guard.
A trained person can do little with a striker fired pistol aside from double checking that nothing has entered the trigger guard.
 
I remember, back in 89 or 90 .. at a semi-local gunshop .. seeing a S&W Model 15 .. 4 inch barrel DAO , with half the trigger guard wacked off ... the gun had a unbelievable trigger and action .. absolutely beautiful finish.. mirror like ..
If the trigger guard was intact .. I would have shelled out the $200 for it ...
 
Hal said:
There is absolutely nothing unsafe about it - so long as the gun is carried in a proper holster.
The problem is it looks "scary" - it looks scary to people on a gun discussion forum that, honestly, should know better.
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I must respectfully disagree.
Saying that there is '"absolutely nothing" unsafe about an exposed , unprotected trigger does not stand up to objective analysis.

It looks scary to people who have an aversion to accidental discharge.
Actually , the Fitzed trigger guard does not look scary to me because I would decline to carry or handle such a thing. Nor would I stand in proximity to someone who was drawing one.
 
Buckeye63 said:
I remember, back in 89 or 90 .. at a semi-local gunshop .. seeing a S&W Model 15 .. 4 inch barrel DAO , with half the trigger guard wacked off ... the gun had a unbelievable trigger and action .. absolutely beautiful finish.. mirror like ..
If the trigger guard was intact .. I would have shelled out the $200 for it ...
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I'd have shelled out the $200 for it (well, $200 in 1990 is more like $400 in 2020, correct? I still might.) and fired up the TIG welder.
 
Buckeye63 said:
I was trying to remember what I made a week in 89
Maybe cleared $250- $300 ish
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In’89 I was chief of inspection for a jobbing shop pulling down $40K/annual. The next year I was back in school going for my engineering degree spending $15K on books and tuition. I sold off everything but a Colts DS .38Spl and my .35Rem Marlin 336T. :(
 
Waveski said:
I must respectfully disagree.
Saying that there is '"absolutely nothing" unsafe about an exposed , unprotected trigger does not stand up to objective analysis.
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Well then - go ahead and objectively analyze it.
Tell me how a D/A only gun in a protected holster manages to fire itself?
How does that differ from, say, a Glock? Or my LCP? or my S&W .45 acp w/no safety?
You simply learn that - in all cases - your finger stays away from the trigger until you are using it.

Like it or not - you are simply reacting to what you think is unsafe.
 
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