Your pick, hammer or hammer less?

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Palladan44 said:
OP- The more links to the chain of which you might have to operate under extreme stress, the more that might go wrong.
Striker fired guns for combat for me.
Single actions for target shooting, and hunting.
Ive been stuck on the Sig P228 for a long time, but my instincts tell me to carry the Glock 17 or 19 over it .... under pressure the absolute simpler the better..
However, if youve trained a long time on SA/DA such as in the military with an M9, then go with it or something like it. Its all about what youre aquainted with better...what do you have more time on?
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Well I went through USMC boot camp back in the early 70's when 1911's were still the standard side arm. And the 1911 was the first pistol I ever fired. The first two side arms I ever owned were 1911 clones, so I have always prefured that type of side arm though I do own 2 striker type pistols as well. And I have 2 more 1911's on the way right now. I was just curious what others prefured.
 
Brutuskend said:
Well I went through USMC boot camp back in the early 70's when 1911's were still the standard side arm. And the 1911 was the first pistol I ever fired. The first two side arms I ever owned were 1911 clones, so I have always prefured that type of side arm though I do own 2 striker type pistols as well. And I have 2 more 1911's on the way right now. I was just curious what others prefured.
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Striker fire for me.
 
The 12ga and .22LR have a shrouded "hammer", what I've bought in pistols are DA/SA or SA with exposed hammers.

Then there is this and a hammer is useful for driving nails. :p
hart-ca-framer-December 27, 2020-8807-2.jpg hart-ca-framer-December 30, 2020-8810.jpg
 
Well, I can continually monitor the condition of a hammer, while re-holstering, while keeping my eyes on a suspect/perp/attacker, which I had to do, countless times, while working big-city street patrol, for 33+ years. I used hammer-fired duty handguns for all but about four or five of those years, when I carried Glock duty pistols. The one I used the longest was a P229R DAK, 2004 to 2015. (Nobody made me use DAK; it was my choice. DA/SA with de-cocker was the norm, for our duty SIGs, at the time.)

It is a peace-of-mind thing, but I am OK with my Glocks. I just feel a bit less at ease, if I cannot touch the hammer, while re-holstering.
 
AK103K said:
I really dont see that one is any safer or less safe than another. It all falls to the handler to understand what they have in their hands, how it works, and to be safe with it.
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My statement had nothing to do with the safety aspect,,,
I only stated what my personal preference is.

I prefer DA/SA action with an external hammer and a safety/de-cocker,,,
'Nuff said?

Aarond

.
 
With this current ammo shortage I’m probably going to shoot one of my Glocks if I can only get aluminum or steel/cased ammo.
 
aarondhgraham said:
My statement had nothing to do with the safety aspect,,,
I only stated what my personal preference is.

I prefer DA/SA action with an external hammer and a safety/de-cocker,,,
'Nuff said?

Aarond

.
Click to expand...
Hey, thats fine, we all have our preferences. You offered up what I was getting at in your reply, and I just quoted the whole thing. Perhaps I should have just quoted that line and left your name off.

I was just addressing the part of that that "usually" goes on to say that safety is an issue, which seems to have come up a couple of times here already, at least as far as the striker guns go.

My point is, if people would get some experience and education with more than just what they have, they would have a better idea as to what was what, and we would have less of the "less than accurate" info you often hear.

By all means, choose what you like. The only way I see to actually find out what that might be is, is to give as many as you possibly can a good try, and make an informed decision based on actual, realistic experience with them.

Its amazing how many people seem to be afraid of things they really have no knowledge about, and simply based on nothing other than rumors they hear on the internet, gun shops, etc. Its even more annoying, when they contiue to perptuate them. :thumbup:
 
AK103K said:
I really dont see that one is any safer or less safe than another. It all falls to the handler to understand what they have in their hands, how it works, and to be safe with it.

It also sounds like there are quite a few people who dont seem to understand the mechanics of different things, and how the different types of guns/actions work. Perhaps some need to get better educated and broaden their horizons. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I understand the mechanics perfectly. I just don't like striker -fired pistols, for the reasons stated. As to "safe handling", seems like there are a few "highly trained professionals", having NDs, on video, with striker fired pistols.
 
I carry Glocks, because I need/want their grip angle and prefer a consistent trigger pull from first shot to last, but I also value hammer-fired guns because they're easier to tune for specific recoil characteristics. For me, the perfect handgun would be a light DAO hammer-fired Glock. :)
 
Dibbs said:
I understand the mechanics perfectly. I just don't like striker -fired pistols, for the reasons stated. As to "safe handling", seems like there are a few "highly trained professionals", having NDs, on video, with striker fired pistols.
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I got the impression by what you said here earlier, you didnt seem to have a clear understanding. I can tell one of my Glocks is "cocked", just as easily as I can tell one of my 1911's, or other hammer fired guns are.

And as far as the "safe handling" thing, I think if you get to looking, youll see all sorts of people have all sorts of problems with pretty much everything. Its not just the striker-fired guns. And its not just the nimrods either. "Well trained" is kind of a misnomer too. Some of the scariest gun handling Ive seen has been by those who were supposedly, "well trained". Just because someone wears a uniform and/or carries a badge, doesnt mean they know what they are doing.

Over the decades, Ive seen enough sloppy handling with pretty much everything to know its not usually the guns fault when something goes wrong. :thumbup:
 
AK103K said:
And as far as the "safe handling" thing, I think if you get to looking, youll see all sorts of people have all sorts of problems with pretty much everything. Its not just the striker-fired guns. And its not just the nimrods either. "Well trained" is kind of a misnomer too. Some of the scariest gun handling Ive seen has been by those who were supposedly, "well trained". Just because someone wears a uniform and/or carries a badge, doesnt mean they know what they are doing.

Over the decades, Ive seen enough sloppy handling with pretty much everything to know its not usually the guns fault when something goes wrong.
Click to expand...

Hit the nail right on the head, there.


Safety is a habit of mind, not a mechanical doohickey. Or a certificate.
 
AK103K said:
I got the impression by what you said here earlier, you didnt seem to have a clear understanding. I can tell one of my Glocks is "cocked", just as easily as I can tell one of my 1911's, or other hammer fired guns are
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Well, I would certainly hope so! When a glock, or a copy, of same, is loaded, it's cocked. Not a lot of mystery, there.

And you're absolutely right, usually it isn't the gun's fault. You want to blame the user, go ahead. IMO, the fault lies with the designer.
 
Dibbs said:
Well, I would certainly hope so! When a glock, or a copy, of same, is loaded, it's cocked. Not a lot of mystery, there.
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We've been through this before, and it appears there is still some mystery, on your part anyway. :thumbup:

They are not "cocked" when loaded. They have a partial load on the striker, but they are not "cocked".

And even then, there are still three safeties in between, that wont allow the gun to fire, unless the trigger is fully pulled. Pulling the trigger, to what some call "the wall", is the final cocking of the gun. Beyond that, it fires. Very much, by feel anyway, like a two-stage trigger on something like an M1.

The way you know the Glock is ready, is the trigger is "forward and set". You can see and feel that. You also have a visual and tactile indicator its actually loaded, with the extractor.
 
AK103K said:
We've been through this before, and it appears there is still some mystery, on your part anyway. :thumbup:

They are not "cocked" when loaded. They have a partial load on the striker, but they are not "cocked".
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They are cocked. You can tell us how far the striker is cocked, but it is cocked.

When your door is only partially opened, it is still open, it isn't closed.

There is enough energy stored in the partially cocked Glock striker to ignite primers.
 
JTQ said:
They are cocked. You can tell us how far the striker is cocked, but it is cocked.

When your door is only partially opened, it is still open, it isn't closed.

There is enough energy stored in the partially cocked Glock striker to ignite primers.
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It is not fully cocked, and even then, its still protected by a drop safety, and a firing pin safety. You would also have to disable or bypass three safeties to get the gun to fire.

The only way I know to do that, is to load it with the trigger to the rear, and even then, its only not drop safe. At that point though, it is fully "uncocked".
 
AK103K said:
It is not fully cocked, and even then, its still protected by a drop safety, and a firing pin safety. You would also have to disable or bypass three safeties to get the gun to fire.
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Nobody is debating the firing pin safeties.

You keep belittling Dibbs in this discussion about whether the striker is cocked or not. That is the issue. The striker is cocked. That's all he's saying and prior to post #91, you were telling him it wasn't cocked.
 
JTQ said:
Nobody is debating the firing pin safeties.

You keep belittling Dibbs in this discussion about whether the striker is cocked or not. That is the issue. The striker is cocked. That's all he's saying and prior to post #91, you were telling him it wasn't cocked.
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How am I belittling him? We had been over the exact same thing before in another thread and he insists that the gun is cocked. Its not. :thumbup:

And I'll agrue with you, or anyone else too, it is not "cocked". Some of you act like its the equivalent of a hammer-fired gun being cocked with the safety off, and its not. You finish that process on pulling the trigger to the rear.

And its not even equivalent to half cock on those hammer equipped guns that have it, as half cock isnt really a reliable safety, nor is it a safe way to carry the gun.
 
AK103K said:
We've been through this before, and it appears there is still some mystery, on your part anyway. :thumbup:

They are not "cocked" when loaded. They have a partial load on the striker, but they are not "cocked".

And even then, there are still three safeties in between, that wont allow the gun to fire, unless the trigger is fully pulled. Pulling the trigger, to what some call "the wall", is the final cocking of the gun. Beyond that, it fires. Very much, by feel anyway, like a two-stage trigger on something like an M1.

The way you know the Glock is ready, is the trigger is "forward and set". You can see and feel that. You also have a visual and tactile indicator its actually loaded, with the extractor.
Click to expand...

You know, for all this AMAZING "glock safety" you would think people WOULDN'T be shooting themselves, in the balls, on a regular basis.
Have all the guys, that police chief, who shot himself on camera, at the gun store, did HE know about how "safe" glocks are?
How about Mr. "I'm the only person in this room, who's qualified to carry a glock 40 " was HE aware of all those "glock safeties" ?
Why are you telling ME this? You know, somebody should have told those other guys, because they surely missed the boat. Maybe if you had been there, yourself, to tell THEM how "safe" glocks are, they wouldn't still be picking pieces of themselves out of the floor...
... and I have to say, for a gun that's NOT cocked, they sure go off in people's pants on a regular basis, as if they ARE cocked. Do regular firearms physics stop, at Gaston Glock's front door?
I'll say it again, calling five gallons of grease, smeared on a slippery precipice, a "safety rail" doesn't make it a safety rail.
You should think long, and hard, about the fact that you are advocating noobs getting glocks, which empiric evidence shows don't have the best safety record, in the hands of trained professionals, let alone some poor guy, who just bought his first gun, may or may not ever get a holster, and hell, these guys can't pony up the dough for NRA membership(or GOA or SAF, doesn't matter), so pigs are gonna fly, before they get professional firearms safety training. And all you guys are all out there parroting "get a glock! get a glock!"
I cringe, it's sort of like watching somebody fall, and bust open their kneecap. Don't you ever wonder how many noobs have bought, and ND'ed a glock, based on your advice?
 
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Rexster said:
Well, I can continually monitor the condition of a hammer, while re-holstering, while keeping my eyes on a suspect/perp/attacker, which I had to do, countless times, while working big-city street patrol, for 33+ years. I used hammer-fired duty handguns for all but about four or five of those years, when I carried Glock duty pistols. The one I used the longest was a P229R DAK, 2004 to 2015. (Nobody made me use DAK; it was my choice. DA/SA with de-cocker was the norm, for our duty SIGs, at the time.)

It is a peace-of-mind thing, but I am OK with my Glocks. I just feel a bit less at ease, if I cannot touch the hammer, while re-holstering.
Click to expand...

I feel exactly the same way, for exactly the same reasons.
 
Dibbs said:
You know, for all this AMAZING "glock safety" you would think people WOULDN'T be shooting themselves, in the balls, on a regular basis.
Have all the guys, that police chief, who shot himself on camera, at the gun store, did HE know about how "safe" glocks are?
How about Mr. "I'm the only person in this room, who's qualified to carry a glock 40 " was HE aware of all those "glock safeties" ?
Why are you telling ME this? You know, somebody should have told those other guys, because they surely missed the boat. Maybe if you had been there, yourself, to tell THEM how "safe" glocks are, they wouldn't still be picking pieces of themselves out of the floor...
... and I have to say, for a gun that's NOT cocked, they sure go off in people's pants on a regular basis, as if they ARE cocked. Do regular firearms physics stop, at Gaston Glock's front door?
I'll say it again, calling five gallons of grease, smeared on a slippery precipice, a "safety rail" doesn't make it a safety rail.
You should think long, and hard, about the fact that you are advocating noobs getting glocks, which empiric evidence shows don't have the best safety record, in the hands of trained professionals, let alone some poor guy, who just bought his first gun, may or may not ever get a holster, and hell, these guys can't pony up the dough for NRA membership(or GOA or SAF, doesn't matter), so pigs are gonna fly, before they get professional firearms safety training. And all you guys are all out there parroting "get a glock! get a glock!"
I cringe, it's sort of like watching somebody fall, and bust open their kneecap. Don't you ever wonder how many noobs have bought, and ND'ed a glock, based on your advice?
Click to expand...

I agree. Glocks are good guns, but not for new shooters. I’ve always found it disturbing that striker gun companies brag about less training required to master their product. Less training for a deadly weapon?

Before Glock came around, millions of people carried hammer guns and nobody seemed to have a problem with it.
 
AK103K said:
Its amazing how many people seem to be afraid of things they really have no knowledge about, and simply based on nothing other than rumors they hear on the internet, gun shops, etc. Its even more annoying, when they contiue to perptuate them
Click to expand...

I am blessed enough to have a wide range of firearm experience. I am perfectly comfortable with pretty much anything so when I say I prefer hammer fired actions I don’t do so because of rumors or here say. Every firearm has its pros, cons and idiosyncrasies and it is the shooters job to know them. All firearms are dangerous.....that’s kinda their point.

All that said I will say that Glocks safe action is fine but I do personally think “single action” strikers like the PPQ, while a fantastic trigger, are too light and short for me personally and I would never carry them. Hell I’ve shot bad 1911 triggers that were more stout feeling. Again personal preference you do you.

Homerboy said:
Before Glock came around, millions of people carried hammer guns and nobody seemed to have a problem with it.
Click to expand...

Folks have been shooting themselves for as long as they have been carrying guns. Plenty of folks have forgotten to decock, plenty of folks have capped rounds off on the draw. Don’t have the illusion that this is “suddenly” a striker fired or Glock problem.

Also keep in mind, the Glock handgun in all its iterations is one of the most globally prolific arms to ever come to be. BIG USER BASE......MORE MISTAKES, IDJITS AND UNTRAINED USERS just statistically speaking.

Again I am a hammer fired dude at heart. It’s what I cut me teeth on and I do believe they CAN offer a different margin of safety but have no illusions that they are cut and dry safer then X, Y or Z.

Besides you striker “But DA/SA is sooooo hard to learn!!!” Folks are so whiny. :p. :). I keeeed. I keeeed.
 
Dibbs said:
You know, for all this AMAZING "glock safety" you would think people WOULDN'T be shooting themselves, in the balls, on a regular basis.
Have all the guys, that police chief, who shot himself on camera, at the gun store, did HE know about how "safe" glocks are?
How about Mr. "I'm the only person in this room, who's qualified to carry a glock 40 " was HE aware of all those "glock safeties" ?
Why are you telling ME this? You know, somebody should have told those other guys, because they surely missed the boat. Maybe if you had been there, yourself, to tell THEM how "safe" glocks are, they wouldn't still be picking pieces of themselves out of the floor...
... and I have to say, for a gun that's NOT cocked, they sure go off in people's pants on a regular basis, as if they ARE cocked. Do regular firearms physics stop, at Gaston Glock's front door?
I'll say it again, calling five gallons of grease, smeared on a slippery precipice, a "safety rail" doesn't make it a safety rail.
You should think long, and hard, about the fact that you are advocating noobs getting glocks, which empiric evidence shows don't have the best safety record, in the hands of trained professionals, let alone some poor guy, who just bought his first gun, may or may not ever get a holster, and hell, these guys can't pony up the dough for NRA membership(or GOA or SAF, doesn't matter), so pigs are gonna fly, before they get professional firearms safety training. And all you guys are all out there parroting "get a glock! get a glock!"
I cringe, it's sort of like watching somebody fall, and bust open their kneecap. Don't you ever wonder how many noobs have bought, and ND'ed a glock, based on your advice?
Click to expand...

Every single one of whom had to violate more than one of the four rules....


All the gizmos and certificates one year of experience 30 times over can't make people employ safe practices.
 
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Dibbs said:
I understand the mechanics perfectly. I just don't like striker -fired pistols, for the reasons stated. As to "safe handling", seems like there are a few "highly trained professionals", having NDs, on video, with striker fired pistols.
Click to expand...
Lots of videos of people shooting themselves with a variety of gun types.


 
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