Savage Impulse?
- Thread starter Legionnaire
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Oldschool shooter
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As far as Savage being "gimmicky", I bet there were a lot of nay sayers back in the day, being used to Winchester and Marlin lever guns, had similar things to say when Savage came out with their model 1899 lever action with that "crazy" rotary magazine.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Yes, they rotate - but the statement that I made was:
If that's incorrect - make me smarter.
That was my first negative reaction as well, based on my experience with trunnion wear on the CETME/G3 class of rifle (and those designs use rollers specifically to spread the impulse across a relatively large area). If the locking area for the bolt is in a barrel extension or some other replaceable element - then Savage will have done a good.
OP
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Legionnaire
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I appreciate the discussion by people who know more about engineering than I do. And I appreciate Savage's work to innovate. It will take some hands-on experience to determine whether the change (innovation) represents an enhancement. I don't really sense a "need for speed" for my bolt actions, but I like some of the "personalization" represented here in varying the bolt angle or even swapping it to the off side. I have often thought about the utility of a left-handed rifle shot right handed for precision work, so the trigger hand doesn't have to break grip between shots. More a casual thought than a serious question, but still, interesting possibilities here.
A weapon like this could in small part, not in whole, but in a small part, be a hedge against the day that semi-auto weapons are illegal to own. It is a fast(er) fire bolt action rifle and it is not clear what sort of magazine it uses or at least I missed it if so. I think it would be easier and require less training and practice to remain on target with rapid fire with a straight pull bolt action than a rotating bolt. Us Freds or Frudds or Elmers or whatever they call us non-black rifle, hunters, target shooters, reloaders, gun folks, I could get into an all weather scout platform, bush length barrel (16.5 inches) rifle in a .308 or in .350 Legend that can utilize off the shelf AR type magazines.
gotboostvr
Member
I can all but guarantee it won't run on AR magazines. More likely than not, it'll run on their propriety mags, maybe AICS mags if we're lucky.
The third gen Savage Scout uses the AICS magazines but it is true that Savage likes to run proprietary mags. My second gen Scout does not (use AICS) but then it has the option of a flush bottom metal magazine, which I prefer for my purposes.
OP
OP
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
So, the videos were deleted and Savage's website got scrubbed. I hope somebody just "jumped the gun" and we'll hear more soon.
Edit. Good to see the original links are working again.
Edit. Good to see the original links are working again.
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gotboostvr
Member
I'm sure that's the case. They've already cranked out a few rifles in a couple different variations. They've already prepped a bunch of multimedia ads for it, one website already had a listing for a 30-06 version (at $1100).
They might not be out there yet, but they're in the pipeline.
Gtscotty
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That seems to be the consensus elsewhere, I don't think Savage was testing the waters or anything like that, this looks like a new full production line introduction that got flubbed and accidentally posted earlier than intended. I'm guessing we'll see the intentional rollout in the next few weeks, or maybe during the "SHOT Show On Demand" the week after.
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I'll agree to disagree on that theory. I shot a K31 in CMP Vintage Military competitions for two years thinking that would be true. I found that it wasn't.
Don't get me wrong, I love Swiss straight pulls and think they are great rifles, but you still have to remove your hand from the trigger and break your cheek weld (at least I did) while operating the bolt so it wasn't an advantage for me during rapid fire. With practice, a conventional bolt can be cycled pretty fast. Any time saved with a straight pull is going to be negligible.
rbernie
Contributing Member
My experience has been that cycling a traditional bolt requires two distinct motions (up/back, forward/down), which can be ingrained to be pretty fluid but which can be flubbed in a hurry (especially if the bolt/ammo sticks anywhere along the way). I don't think that a straight-pull is FASTER, but I do think that it's more error-proof.
Damn. Was really wanting to watch those videos. But based on what I’ve seen and read, I also have concerns about “crud” getting in the bearings and causing issues. If they were sealed bearings, I’d have more faith in the longevity and ease of maintainence.
rbernie
Contributing Member
It looks like the Savage system uses a mechanical linkage tied to the bolt handle to force the rollers out from the bolt body, meaning that the shooter will know that the gun's not in battery, just as with a traditional turnbolt, so there is that. Most bolts these days seem to have multiple holes and orifices (gas venting or other), so I dunno if the Savage will be more prone to ingesting goombah that any other design. Time will tell, I guess. They just need to get their act together and put it on the street.
Yes sir, I can shoot a conventional bolt pretty quickly myself but the straight pull is one motion aft and one foreward and a conventional bolt is two motions in each direction. We will just have to see. Your experience with one rifle might not equate to the Savage and you and I are trained on conventional bolts so to say a straight pull cannot be faster, at least for me, is unknown but possible. One persons experience, with a different rifle is just one data point, but you may be entirely right and again, we will see in due course when the Savage is actually released to the public. This rifle may be targeted to a different audience than a conventional rotating bolt design, maybe towards those AR folks when Biden takes the semi-auto rifles away from them. Just a what if, getting off topic somewhat, what if
the bolt released to the rear and ejected the spent cartridge (using gas pressure or some other means?) and the shooter only has to shove the bolt forward to load a round and lock up for the next engagement? That is not this rifle, I realize.Several of my various bolt guns do not have a lot of scope bell clearance to the bolt handle, it does not usually cause me a problem but there will be plenty of clearance with that down angled straight pull bolt
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Gtscotty
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Looks like the intentional rollout has begun.
https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=ImpulseS
Lots of videos up today, this one mentions that it uses regular 110 pattern barrels with a barrel extension:
It looks like the Impulse Predator, at least, uses AICS pattern mags. All three options are quite chunky, especially for a rifle that sports an aluminum receiver.
https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=ImpulseS
Lots of videos up today, this one mentions that it uses regular 110 pattern barrels with a barrel extension:
It looks like the Impulse Predator, at least, uses AICS pattern mags. All three options are quite chunky, especially for a rifle that sports an aluminum receiver.
rbernie
Contributing Member
No kidding - the lightest model is over eight pounds before optic or rings!
Here is a good video of the Heym system that shows in detail how the bolt locks.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/heym-sr30-straight-pull-ball-bearing-lock/
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/heym-sr30-straight-pull-ball-bearing-lock/
dranrab
Member
By the time you hang a 3 pound Nightforce on one of those it'll be quite portly.
gotboostvr
Member
I noticed that.
But, compared to other similarly featured turn bolts, the weight is pretty similar. The currently offered models all have "medium" to "heavy" barrel profiles, and the ACCU-FIT/ACCU-STOCKS aren't light either.
If they drop a model with a basic synthetic stock, sporter barrel, plain muzzle version I'm sure they could get the weight down to around >#7.5 and hopefully a street price around $750. I might be interested in that. Especially since we now know it can utilize 110 barrels.
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OP
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Legionnaire
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mgmorden
Member
The ball bearing locking isn't completely new. There have seen some European rifles (Sako maybe? EDIT: actually, another posted got it - the Heym rifle is the one) that do that in the past and apparently it works well enough.
Not sure its something I really want but I'll applaud them for actually making something outside of the norm.
Not sure its something I really want but I'll applaud them for actually making something outside of the norm.
Ignition Override
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The title led me to imagine that it's about the impulse to shoot any Savage, such as...
my single-shot .22LR, built in the 1940s or 1950s and then owned by my grandfather.
my single-shot .22LR, built in the 1940s or 1950s and then owned by my grandfather.
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