CCW ammo choice- 9mm Luger

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Has anyone performed SHORT BARREL testing in 9mm with various147 Grain hollow point bullets and found them to have unreliable or no expansion, when compared to 115s or 124s?
For some reason I tend to use the 147grain defense rounds in my full size and bigger 9s. With 4, 5 or 6" Barrels. I assume they are questionable in the approx 3 1/2" barreled Glock 19 and very questionable in anything smaller than that.
Any tests out there?
 
Not being stopped immediately by gunfire does not mean "shrugging off" being shot..

Think about it. For some time, some years ago, 9mm handgun ammunition was considered suboptimal. Today's best loads exceed performance requirements that the older loads could not meet.

The performance data are available for your perusal.

Poor shot placement is not going to stop everyone no matter the cartridge. My point was equal shot placement with different cartridges and the fact that 9mm SD ammo is going to do the job.

And yes 9mm now is better than it was just like every cartridge and thus meets the need.

Performance data is available and the people that crunch those numbers decided 9mm is acceptable. My thought was that any SD 9mm ammo sold today is acceptable and within very close margins to each other...and going to stop the threat provided proper shot placement.
 
Poor shot placement is not going to stop everyone no matter the cartridge.
That was not my point.

My point was equal shot placement with different cartridges and the fact that 9mm SD ammo is going to do the job.
Some may or may not , and some most probably will.

And yes 9mm now is better than it was just like every cartridge and thus meets the need.
Not all of today's 9MM ammo is really better than the old stuff.

Performance data is available and the people that crunch those numbers decided 9mm is acceptable.
They did not.

They concluded that specific 9mm loads with premium bonded bullets were as effective, in terms of terminal ballistics, as any service-type handgun loads available, and that, because of lower recoil and the potential for more rapid controlled fire, they were better overall than some other calibers,

My thought was that any SD 9mm ammo sold today is acceptable and within very close margins to each other...and going to stop the threat provided proper shot placement.
There are some that the experts recommend, and some that they do not. Search on THR for Dr. Roberts' list.
 
Might want to look into Federal HST 124gr, either standard or +P.

This is what I carry as well. I sometimes think about going to 147 gr or even the HST 150 gr Micro 9mm for short barrel guns. I used to carry Hydra-Shok. I do have Win. Ranger T in 147 and Gold Dot and Rem. Golden Sabre in my stash and would be happy with any of them.

The Ranger 147s are in my longer barreled guns.
 
Like either G9 or Lehigh/Underwood Xtreme Defense. Good test results(yes I know)...



I notice that Black Hills is now recommending the Lehigh bullet. I've looked into this style and understand the dynamics. What was it that made you decide on these?
 
I have a number of 9mm rounds that I carry (or would carry)...currently carrying the Winchester Ranger 127 +p.
Recently bought a bunch of 147 gr HSTs, and as soon as I can run a bunch of them through my Kahr PM9, I will carry them.
That might not happen as long as the current ammo shortages persist...I can shoot my handloads at the range and carry the Rangers with confidence...the HSTs aren't going anywhere.
And I have some Rem GS, CorBon, PBLE, and a few others in reserve.

"If you are accosted and produce a handgun, 93% of the time your assailant will flee."

I'd like to see the sourcing for this quote.
Sounds like it was pulled from thin air, or Joe Biden's a-hole.

I've been carrying HST 124 in my PM9, but I've been eyeing the HST 150 grain Micro 9mm if I could ever find any. Kinda expensive compared to the 124s, but I guess we get to pay for performance. I carry Win Ranger Ts 147 in my longer barrel home guns.
 
Has anyone performed SHORT BARREL testing in 9mm with various147 Grain hollow point bullets and found them to have unreliable or no expansion, when compared to 115s or 124s?
For some reason I tend to use the 147grain defense rounds in my full size and bigger 9s. With 4, 5 or 6" Barrels. I assume they are questionable in the approx 3 1/2" barreled Glock 19 and very questionable in anything smaller than that.
Any tests out there?

https://www.youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410 I've followed this guy for a long time. He has a website as well. He's all about short barrel guns. If I remember correctly, he decided he liked 124 over 147 because of a slight advantage in expansion. But, check him out.
 
I notice that Black Hills is now recommending the Lehigh bullet. I've looked into this style and understand the dynamics. What was it that made you decide on these?
It being blind to shooting thru layers of cloth, denim, etc..and not clog like a LHP 'may' and act like a FMJ, with corresponding possible over penetration. Good performance out of relatively short barrels too..where barrel length often determines whether or not a JHP expands like it is supposed to. Makes a real mess outta a watermelon too...:)
 
That was not my point.

Some may or may not , and some most probably will.

Not all of today's 9MM ammo is really better than the old stuff.

They did not.

They concluded that specific 9mm loads with premium bonded bullets were as effective, in terms of terminal ballistics, as any service-type handgun loads available, and that, because of lower recoil and the potential for more rapid controlled fire, they were better overall than some other calibers,

There are some that the experts recommend, and some that they do not. Search on THR for Dr. Roberts' list.

I believe we will have to agree to disagree on some of these thoughts. However I super appreciate the info.
 
It being blind to shooting thru layers of cloth, denim, etc..and not clog like a LHP 'may' and act like a FMJ, with corresponding possible over penetration. Good performance out of relatively short barrels too..where barrel length often determines whether or not a JHP expands like it is supposed to. Makes a real mess outta a watermelon too...:)

Look through this series on 9mm ammo for short barrel pistols. Lehigh is in the series.

I think it's hard to make a judgement on what ammo to carry (there are a bunch of good ones), but I think this gives some help. I admit to still fence-sitting. I've tried a few as well as light-and-fast rounds. I'm an advocate of speed kills. That Black Hills is now behind the bullet is a good recommendation for me.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410
 
I believe we will have to agree to disagree on some of these thoughts.

This link takes one to a list of Dr. Gary Roberts' (docGKR) list of acceptable 9mm defensive ammunition.

Dr. Roberts is widely considered the top authority on the subject.

He has tested many loads that are not on the list.

Do you have an objective basis for believing that is is a "fact" that any 9MM SD ammo will "do its job".

http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/0...munition-is-your-ammo-on-this-list-pt-3-of-3/
 
Federal HST 124 gr is what I use because it’s fed, fired, and reliably ejected in my carry gun.

But honestly, I don’t study all the in’s and out’s of the various defensive loads. My advice is to get defensive ammo from a reputable maker, ensure it works in your gun, and keep buying that.
 
Has anyone performed SHORT BARREL testing in 9mm with various147 Grain hollow point bullets and found them to have unreliable or no expansion, when compared to 115s or 124s?
For some reason I tend to use the 147grain defense rounds in my full size and bigger 9s. With 4, 5 or 6" Barrels. I assume they are questionable in the approx 3 1/2" barreled Glock 19 and very questionable in anything smaller than that.
Any tests out there?

If you go to luckygunner.com you might have to dig around a bit but they did ballistic gelatin tests using a 3 1/2" barreled 9mm. The heavier bullets did better if I recall correctly. I only own one short barreled 9mm & I got some HST Micro 150 grain ammunition for it. The lighter bullets do better in a 4" or longer barrel. At least that is my understanding.
 
This link takes one to a list of Dr. Gary Roberts' (docGKR) list of acceptable 9mm defensive ammunition.

Dr. Roberts is widely considered the top authority on the subject.

He has tested many loads that are not on the list.

Do you have an objective basis for believing that is is a "fact" that any 9MM SD ammo will "do its job".

http://preparedgunowners.com/2015/0...munition-is-your-ammo-on-this-list-pt-3-of-3/

As I said before we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for the link though.
 
You are disagreeing with the great majority of the recognized experts.

How a police gunfight led to an officer carrying 145 rounds (police1.com)

Not to make too fine of a point here, but I read all of Dr. Roberts work with great interest when it came out in April of 2015. Great and valuable work. But, there's been a lot of progress since then and I think it needs updating. But, penetration and expansion are certainly key.

BTY, tacked into the link you provided is the above-pasted article about why a cop carries 145 rounds with him.

I base all of my ammo choices on ballistic gel testing looking for penetration and expansion just like Dr. Roberts. At one time, I followed a site that reported on bullet wounds and carried photos of entrance and exit wounds as well as autopsy photos. That link appears to be gone now. Pretty gruesome it was. Anyway, one of the take-aways for me was that placement was King regardless of the ammo you carry. I think that's exactly what the cop was saying when he chose to increase his ammo loadout. I mean he hit the guy SIX times with a .45 in vital locations and he was still alive when EMS got there! I want whatever drugs that dude was on.

I love experts, I really do. It's how we get decent info on which to base decisions. Then, you make the best choice you can and keep shooting until the assailant stops. Period.
 
Anyway, one of the take-aways for me was that placement was King regardless of the ammo you carry.
Since "shot placement" involves three dimensions, the ammunition used is a determinant.
 
I've got a few boxes of random 9mm JHP ammo I picked up the last time ammo was hard to find, but normally my 9mm ammo of choice is either Speer Gold Dot 124gr or Federal HST 124gr.
 
Has anyone performed SHORT BARREL testing in 9mm with various147 Grain hollow point bullets and found them to have unreliable or no expansion, when compared to 115s or 124s?
For some reason I tend to use the 147grain defense rounds in my full size and bigger 9s. With 4, 5 or 6" Barrels. I assume they are questionable in the approx 3 1/2" barreled Glock 19 and very questionable in anything smaller than that.
Any tests out there?
Glock 19 barrel is 4.02 inches.
 
I never had defensive ammo so bought the Federal Premium Tactical HST 124 gr recently after reading bunch on 124 vs 147.
Haven't even test fired it. Stopped going to range since the pandemic.

50805572633_8a8f1bafeb_c.jpg
 
My choice in any caliber is ARX ammo for what it imparts in increased velocity and it's hydraulic effect when it comes to wound channel. In a 9mm round that would be a 65 grain cooking along at near 1700 fps out of my Sig P365XL or my HK P30SK.
 
Has anyone performed SHORT BARREL testing in 9mm with various147 Grain hollow point bullets and found them to have unreliable or no expansion, when compared to 115s or 124s?
For some reason I tend to use the 147grain defense rounds in my full size and bigger 9s. With 4, 5 or 6" Barrels. I assume they are questionable in the approx 3 1/2" barreled Glock 19 and very questionable in anything smaller than that.
Any tests out there?

They use a 3 1/2" barrel in these tests, don't know of any significant 9mm testing with anything smaller (Glock 19 has a 3.9" barrel IIRC, Glock 26 is closer to 3.5")

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
 
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