rbernie
Contributing Member
If I can't have an AR for HD/SD, I'm not using a rifle at all - a Benelli M2 with Federal FliteControl ammo is my backup.
Best non-semi automatic defense rifle
- Thread starter Balrog
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HngMnHnryDvdsn
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- Oct 18, 2020
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- 31
Like many who posted, If my AR is off the table, I'd grab my Henry Big Boy X in .44 magnum. Wouldn't mind adding a Mossberg 590a1 to the table once prices (hopefully) go back to "Normal".
P5 Guy
Member
I am confused?
You guys really think ANY repeating firearm is safe?
A brace of Thompson Contenders and a double barrel to shoot off the balcony are enough
You guys really think ANY repeating firearm is safe?
A brace of Thompson Contenders and a double barrel to shoot off the balcony are enough
FFGColorado
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- Mar 2, 2020
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That's really interesting and I don't doubt you but after seeing a 223/556 break the 'ear' off a AR500 3/8inch plate at 50 yards or so..I find it hard to believe it wouldn't go thru some wall board and insulation. Yup, a 9mm would too but.....
No, don't give up hope, but do appreciate the challenges we will likely face. Now is not the time for complacency.
35 Whelen
Member
I guess no one remembers there, the Timber Wolf by IMI available in .357 and .44 Magnum.
Too bad they don't make them anymore.
I've always thought an AR in 5.56 would be a bit much inside a dwelling.
35W
Too bad they don't make them anymore.
I've always thought an AR in 5.56 would be a bit much inside a dwelling.
35W
Risky buisness
Member
I'm going to have to think in terms of ' home ' defence, as a long gun used indoors.
While a good choice, the 357, 44, 45s offer a great deal of potential either in lever or pump, but to be the devils advocate, my choice would be the Remington. 223 pump rifle, or a Browning BLR, also in .223 for the simple reason of bullet performance.
The current 55 grn loadings in fmj have a great record of limiting over penetration. I have no idea of the OPs location or circumstances but still think that preservation of the bullet inside the walls of the home is superior to having to worry about next door neighbors or family members down the hall.
While a good choice, the 357, 44, 45s offer a great deal of potential either in lever or pump, but to be the devils advocate, my choice would be the Remington. 223 pump rifle, or a Browning BLR, also in .223 for the simple reason of bullet performance.
The current 55 grn loadings in fmj have a great record of limiting over penetration. I have no idea of the OPs location or circumstances but still think that preservation of the bullet inside the walls of the home is superior to having to worry about next door neighbors or family members down the hall.
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Correct. There is a rather stout steel rod attaching the shortened bolt carrier to the slide. The bolt itself is a basic AR15 part minus the gas rings -- I have a spare bolt that swaps and functions just fine in my gun. The cam pin is also standard AR (I installed a POF roller cam), but the firing pin is longer than a normal AR's and does not interchange.
This photo is evidently of different generation PAR than mine -- there is no spring present in at the rear of my rifle's bolt.
There is no buffer spring -- you pump both ways like a shotgun. BTW, the lack of a buffer makes a folding stock a factory option. I usually transport mine folded in a mandolin soft case.
The action has a mechanical lock that is either released by the hammer during firing or disconnected manually using a plunger at front of the triggerguard.
Field stripping first requires the use of a punch from the top to depress a spring release that firmly connects the op rod to the slide.
No, it is longer and will not fit. Perhaps this was deliberate to avoid potential hassles from ATFE.
Speedo66
Member
I see BLR's mentioned a few times. As much as I liked mine, who could find, and afford, extra mags, especially for the early Belgium editions? lol
For what it's worth, I think my original '73 holds 15 rounds, a veritable assault rifle.
For what it's worth, I think my original '73 holds 15 rounds, a veritable assault rifle.
Just coming into this to say that if you get a lever action, you'd better practice with it intensively. I've seen folks try to run them in carbine matches and totally screw up cranking the lever and jamming the gun without an easy clear.
Here's a link discussing lever action guns for such uses:
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/are-lever-action-rifles-reliable/
Saw a guy run a bolt gun the carbine match. Glacially slow by AR standards but he was deadly accurate. He had the first set of rounds and you are out time constraint. Basically one shot per target as compared to the usual double taps.
Here's a link discussing lever action guns for such uses:
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/are-lever-action-rifles-reliable/
Saw a guy run a bolt gun the carbine match. Glacially slow by AR standards but he was deadly accurate. He had the first set of rounds and you are out time constraint. Basically one shot per target as compared to the usual double taps.
Gordon
Member
Or get a nice Scout rifle in .308 and go get your ARs back, and more, working teams . Worked for the Viet Cong, and they won! Also worked in 1776.
upptick
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- Dec 7, 2020
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[QUOTE="
My first line of defense is my dogs. They can hear my keys being quietly slid in the lock from 40 feet away in the bedroom. I know. I’ve tested it. My Catahoula will give you your first warning. The second warning will cost you dearly.[/QUOTE]
I have a Catahoula / Dalmation mix, which actually looks a lot like a yellow lab somehow. He is also an excellent watchdog, suspicious of certain noises and strangers without being overtly aggressive. With family members he is very loving and quite submissive, i.e. I can actually make him pee if I just look at him wrong. I think anyone interested in protecting their home and family would do well to have a watchdog (a canine that alerts and barks) and not necessarily a guard dog (a canine that might actually attack).
My first line of defense is my dogs. They can hear my keys being quietly slid in the lock from 40 feet away in the bedroom. I know. I’ve tested it. My Catahoula will give you your first warning. The second warning will cost you dearly.[/QUOTE]
I have a Catahoula / Dalmation mix, which actually looks a lot like a yellow lab somehow. He is also an excellent watchdog, suspicious of certain noises and strangers without being overtly aggressive. With family members he is very loving and quite submissive, i.e. I can actually make him pee if I just look at him wrong. I think anyone interested in protecting their home and family would do well to have a watchdog (a canine that alerts and barks) and not necessarily a guard dog (a canine that might actually attack).
Roknstevo
Member
If you have purchased a firearm requiring an FBI background check you have probably made the hit parade. I would imagine there are many of us on many lists. I guess we’ll see.
kevincallahan
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- Feb 4, 2006
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- 65
Back in the early 80’s, I worked as a Deputy Sheriff in rural west Texas. Almost every peace officer carried a revolver or a 45 Colt automatic. In everyone’s vehicle was a shotgun for close in work, however we did qualify yearly with slugs at 50 yards. In addition most everyone had a Winchester or Marlin 30-30 . We were taught to aim and fire and account for every round. I never felt underprepared until the late 80’s as Mac 9s and such brought in a new age. I still think a pump shotgun is a great tool for most home defense ranges with the exception of apartments or duplexes. Just my two cents
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I lucked into a 7615 with wood furniture a while ago; bought it for the novelty more than anything else. But one never knows.
BlueHeelerFl
Member
I have the Circuit Judge in 45 Colt/410. You can get some fast follow up shots with them and send a bunch of buckshot down range
BlueHeelerFl
Member
A 357 lever gun is a great choice.
The Ruger American Ranches in 556 and 7.62x39 are also another great choice. I recently got a 556 model which takes AR mags. Nice ability to have fast mag reloads.
The Ruger American Ranches in 556 and 7.62x39 are also another great choice. I recently got a 556 model which takes AR mags. Nice ability to have fast mag reloads.
BlueHeelerFl
Member
I had wanted a 7615 back in the day. I always like the idea for some reason
Oh, I do, very much, remember the IMI Timberwolf. I could not afford one, when they were available.
I liked the concept. I tried to buy one, at a Bass Pro, just before one of my wife’s birthdays, because I knew that she, too, liked the concept, but I could not seem to get anyone’s attention. (Bunch of young employees, clowning around, behind the firearms counter, a half-hour before closing.) I walked out, bought something else for my wife, and reckoned I would have my local independent dealer order a 7615, sooner or later. Well, when “later” arrived, there were none in the pipeline, to be had, and I never again saw a new one, on any rack.
I later reader several purported user reports, claiming some kind of functional or durability issues, which I cannot cite or verify, at this time. I lost interest, especially as auto-loading AR15 rifles were so readily available, without having to pay collectors’ prices.
Phaedrus/69
Member
Time will tell I suppose but I think you're seriously misreading the state of things. Dems still hold the House but they significantly lost ground (I think a net loss of 12 seats IIRC). The Senate went from a very slim Repub majority to a dead tie (with the tiebreaker going Dem). And the Dem president is only there because of a historically weak incumbent, and by any objective measure he's center-right. Yeah, he's perhaps more anti-gun that the previous POTUS although we lost more ground in the last four years than in the previous eight. Still there are five-right wing extremists on SCOTUS so sweeping new gun bans seem unlikely. Again, we can return to this in a few years and see who was right!
I didn't quote the second part as I figure you accidentally mistyped as semi-auto rifles are already widely available. So I'm working on the assumption that you meant "unavailable".
So we're clear I'm a gun nut! This is a gun forum so you'd expect that, right? So now that we're clear I have to say that probably a pretty small minority of homeowners/occupants rely on an AR for HD to begin with. The AR is arguable the most popular rifle in America, at least going by the oft-repeated claims in the gun rags and online forums. It's hard to say if that's true at all. My own experiences and gut feeling is that a simple majority of homes do not have a dedicated HD weapon set up at all. Of those who do have firearms set up expressly for that reason, pistols are probably the most common choice. I could be wrong but from the large commercial YouTube channels, online gun mags and discussions with my gun community friends IRL leads me to that conclusion. One reason for this is the persistent belief that a 5.56 bullet will overpenetrate more than a handgun; this myth is persistent and no amount of "box of truth" videos seems to change this belief. Plus handguns are smaller, cheaper and much more common than ARs.
But if somehow ARs and other semi-auto rifles were banned, would there be other good options? Yes and no! To some extent the rifle is only better option because of the unique virtues of the AR platform. As great as a rifle can be for HD it does pose some disadvantages. It's six times longer and four times heavier than a sidearm and requires both hands to use. The sound level is deafening compared to a sidearm, too. ARs are generally a bit shorter and lighter than some of the other long guns in the same general class (eg CZ Bren, FN SCAR, AK-47, etc). The modularity of the AR, the versatility and the light weight compared to other rifles coupled with the 30 round capacity are probably the main reasons that rifles are even as popular as they are for HD. Substitute another light rifle with a 10 round capacity and you saw one leg off the stool, and now it's pretty wobbly.
If I couldn't use a semi-auto rifle for HD I probably wouldn't go with a lever or bolt gun, I'd go with a shotgun. In fact, I already do keep my Mossberg 500 set up as the backup. My situation isn't universal but for me a shotgun would probably be better than a lever or pump-action rifle. Again, this is an issue specific to me but I'm not particularly good with a lever gun due to not really using them much growing up. If semi-autos were banned I suppose I might pick up a .44 Mag lever and start training with it, and if so then it would move up the list a bit. But if whatever ban was specific to magazine fed rifles and not to shotguns, I'd probably switch to a Beretta 1301 for HD with a sidearm to back it up.
As one of the previous posters mentioned, lever guns can be a good option but they can get tied up if they're not operated properly. This applies to a pump gun as well (although in that case a short-shuck is easier to remedy). If some hypothetical band were to become a reality I'd probably pick up a .44 Mag lever and work on skills. Probably the firearms industry would pivot to skirting restrictions much as they do now, and I could see pump action rifles being developed which could be good alternatives. Mechanically a pump would require a little less travel in the action to cycle a pistol cartridge vs a 3" shot shell although pump rifles would be about the same. I can't recall the manufacturer but I once saw a pump action AR, so the thinking is already out there.
To me a pump action rifle in .44 Mag would be pretty interesting for HD and for camping/hiking. Since I don't have a crystal ball and have no idea what "features" may be banned it's impossible to design a firearm around them right now.
Tommygunn
Member
Ewwwww....hate doing politics but cannot resist. Biden IS NOT "center right," I've never heard a center right Pol want to confiscate guns. And he wants to raise taxes and re-regulate ---[ /politics] 
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