Silencers

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film495

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I thought silencers were an NFA and required a license, then I was reading some stuff about NH and VT making it leagal under some hunters hearing protection act. It is hard to tell what is real and not on the internet, and what decade it was pubished in, so - looking for links to anything official on current silencers ownership. NFA required, you can just have one someplaces, but not others?
 
Suppressors are NFA, nationwide. Some states have state laws prohibiting them. Some states have hunting laws that permit or prohibit their use.

Be advised that even if a State has a law permitting ownership or possession of a suppressor without NFA formalities one still violates federal law (the NFA) if he possesses a suppressor without the proper NFA tax stamp. He won't be prosecuted by the State, but he can be arrested by federal agents, tried in federal court, and sent to federal prison.

See the Constitution of the United States, Article VI, Clause 2:
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
 
The above posters have set it out correctly: (1) Federal law requires a federal tax stamp for all NFA items, including suppressors; and (2) State law may allow suppressors, but you still have to have the tax stamp to comply with federal law.
 
OK - thanks. I think I got confused when I was seeing some articles that stated it was Legal, but did not specificaly say with an NFA tax stamp, or you skim articles online and they don't say what year the were published so, it is hard to figure out was is accurate and current.
 
You might want to remember what Mark Twain is supposed to have said... "If you don't read a newspaper - you're un-informed... if you do read a newspaper - you're mis-informed". From my point of view, nothing has changed in that regard - about news items in any format. You're wise to do a bit of research to find out whether something you've read or heard is valid, misleading, or an out and out lie...
 
A wholly and completely useless website and always has been. It was always data submitted by end users.
1. "Average Time To Stamp Received (Rolling 12 Months)"..........False, because that chart hasn't been updated in years.
2. "F4 Individual- EFile".......False, because eFile hasn't been available for Form 4's for over six years.
3. Same with "F4 LLC/Corp-Efile"
 
A wholly and completely useless website and always has been. It was always data submitted by end users.
1. "Average Time To Stamp Received (Rolling 12 Months)"..........False, because that chart hasn't been updated in years.
2. "F4 Individual- EFile".......False, because eFile hasn't been available for Form 4's for over six years.
3. Same with "F4 LLC/Corp-Efile"
“Wholly and completely useless” is a bit harsh IMO. Just because the data is outdated doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate, at least in the case of the efile Form 4. Historically that may very well how long they took when they were still available.

Yes, it’s end user reported but that also doesn’t mean it isn’t useful as a rough guide. Data is a collection of individual reports and there’s no reason to assume the individual reporting pages aren’t a decent sampling of the current state of approvals. You can go to the last 30 days listing and look at individual entries that are currently up to the end of December.

Is there a better source somewhere?
 
“Wholly and completely useless” is a bit harsh IMO. Just because the data is outdated doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate, at least in the case of the efile Form 4. Historically that may very well how long they took when they were still available.
When the chart claims to show a "Rolling 12 months" and doesn't it's not just outdated but the textbook definition of "inaccurate".

Yes, it’s end user reported but that also doesn’t mean it isn’t useful as a rough guide.
Well, asking any SOT on this forum about current processing times is a far more accurate rough guide than NFA Tracker. Hell, I could say "ten months" and I'm already more up to date than NFA Tracker.....and processing for my paper F4's was ten months a year ago. Now its an average of six months.



Data is a collection of individual reports and there’s no reason to assume the individual reporting pages aren’t a decent sampling of the current state of approvals.
Except that there is no reason to assume it IS a representative sample. For Form 4's......who is submitting the data to NFA Tracker? The buyer or his FFL/SOT?
How does the buyer know when the stamp was received by his dealer?
How does the buyer know when the check was cashed?

For F1's its easier, but for F4's accurate data isn't going to be provided by the buyer because its likely his dealer doesn't track check cashed/approved/mailed.....For one silencer it would be easy. But when you have two hundred silencers pending, no.



You can go to the last 30 days listing and look at individual entries that are currently up to the end of December.
Or I can look at the date I signed a Form 4 and the date it was approved by an ATF examiner. ;)



Is there a better source somewhere?
Always. ATF NFA Branch issues these every ninety days:
Paper::https://www.atf.gov/file/109676/download
eForms: https://www.atf.gov/file/130416/download
 
I don't understand the eForms. Don't they also require a finger print card?
Went through Silencer Central, they seem to have their ducks in a row however I imagine they do a large volume of applications.
 
Always. ATF NFA Branch issues these every ninety days:
Paper::https://www.atf.gov/file/109676/download
eForms: https://www.atf.gov/file/130416/download

I didn’t know those existed. Thanks.

Or I can look at the date I signed a Form 4 and the date it was approved by an ATF examiner. ;)
I meant the generic “you”


I don't understand the eForms. Don't they also require a finger print card?
Went through Silencer Central, they seem to have their ducks in a row however I imagine they do a large volume of applications.
You still have to submit a photo and prints. When you file the form you upload a photo. The system emails you a document with a barcode that you print and mail to ATF with your finger print cards.
 
Silencershop.com also has average ATF approval times on their site. I think it just applies to paperwork issued through them.

I have not used Silencer Central. Silencer Shop has kiosks around where you can get your fingerprints scanned electronically. Once you do that, upload a photo, and fill in all your information, there is very little to do when you order the suppressor. They will also send finger print cards to you if you are buying outside their system.

My local police department will do fingerprint cards for $10.
 
So. Here’s how government works in the US. The Feds can make a law right? And then states can make law? See? They don’t necessarily have to be the same (see marijuana legislation) but they often are.

Many times, but not always, when the feds make something illegal the states make it illegal also OR put EXTRA restrictions on the thing the feds said.

Such is the case with suppressors. Feds say, “U can haz suppressor with this paperwork and stamp.” States then say “u no can haz suppressor period.”
 
So. Here’s how government works in the US. The Feds can make a law right? And then states can make law? See? They don’t necessarily have to be the same (see marijuana legislation) but they often are.....

I'll add the detail.

  1. The Constitution established the United States as a sovereign nation-state recognized as such by the community of nations. And at the time of the founding or our Republic each colony/State was a sovereign, political entity. (At the time of the founding of our nation each State effectively ceded some measure of sovereignty to join with the others to become the United States. How much sovereignty each would cede was a central issue in hashing out the Constitution.)

    • Thus the United States, and each State, has an attribute known as sovereignty. Sovereignty is --

      • https://thelawdictionary.org/sovereignty/:
        The possession of sovereign power; supreme political authority; paramount control of the constitution and frame of government and Its administration ; the self-sufficient source of political power, from which all specific political powers are derived; the international independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign dictation; also a political society, or state, which is sovereign and independent. See Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 455, 1 L. Ed. 440: Union Bank v. Hill, 3 Cold. (Tenn.) 325; Moore v. Shaw, 17 Cal. 218,...

      • https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/sovereignty:
        ...is a political concept that refers to dominant power or supreme authority. In a monarchy, supreme power resides in the "sovereign", or king. In modern democracies, sovereign power rests with the people and is exercised through representative bodies such as Congress or Parliament. The Sovereign is the one who exercises power without limitation. Sovereignty is essentially the power to make laws, even as Blackstone defined it. The term also carries implications of autonomy; to have sovereign power is to be beyond the power of others to interfere...

    • An attribute of sovereignty is "police power." "Police power" means --

      • https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Police+Power:
        ...the basic right of governments to make laws and regulations for the benefit of their communities. Under the system of government in the United States, only states have the right to make laws based on their police power. The lawmaking power of the federal government is limited to the specific grants of power found in the Constitution....

      • https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/police%20power:
        ...the inherent power of a government to exercise reasonable control over persons and property within its jurisdiction in the interest of the general security, health, safety, morals, and welfare except where legally prohibited....

        So inherent in the sovereignty possessed by the United States (and each State comprising it) is the power to enact laws and hold all persons subject to its jurisdiction accountable for complying with those laws. And an attribute of sovereignty is that the sovereign entity incurs no liability for properly exercising that power, including, when necessary, resorting to the use of force.

      • The federal government doesn't have general, broad police power. Congress may enact laws only to the extent that the power to do so has been specifically delegated to it under Article I of the Constitution (e. g., regulation of interstate commerce, define crimes on the high seas, provide for the punishment of counterfeiting, etc.). On the other hand, as acknowledged in the Tenth Amendment, each State has broad police power, constrained by its constitution and certain provisions of the United States Constitution, e. g., the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

  2. See Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 419, 2 Dall. 419, 1 L.Ed. 440 (1793):

    • at 423:
      ...I acknowledge, and shall always contend, that the States are sovereignties. ...The States are in fact assemblages of these individuals who are liable to process. The limitations, which the Federal Government is admitted to impose upon their powers, are diminutions of sovereignty, ....

    • at 435:
      ...Every State in the Union in every instance where its sovereignty has not been delegated to the United States, I consider to be as completely sovereign, as the United States are in respect to the powers surrendered. The United States are sovereign as to all the powers of Government actually surrendered: Each State in the Union is sovereign as to all the powers reserved....

    • at 436:
      ....So far as States under the Constitution can be made legally liable to this authority, so far to be sure they are subordinate to the authority of the United States, and their individual sovereignty is in this respect limited.....

  3. See also, Bond v. United States, 131 S. Ct. 2355, 180 L.Ed.2d 269, 564 U.S. 211 (2011):

    • at 2364:
      ...The allocation of powers in our federal system preserves the integrity,

      dignity, and residual sovereignty of the States....

    • at 2366:
      ...The principles of limited national powers and state sovereignty are intertwined…..
 
You might want to remember what Mark Twain is supposed to have said... "If you don't read a newspaper - you're un-informed... if you do read a newspaper - you're mis-informed". From my point of view, nothing has changed in that regard - about news items in any format. You're wise to do a bit of research to find out whether something you've read or heard is valid, misleading, or an out and out lie...

Or as I often say. I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I read!!
 
Suppressors are NFA everywhere. Some states allow them. I'm sad to say mine doesn't. I envy anyone that doesn't live in Illinois except for maybe New York, New Jersey, California, Oregon or Washington and a few others. At least we are a shall issue state for CCW after you have got your FOID, jumped through a dozen hoops, got 16 hours training, yada, yada.
 
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