Cartridges ahead of their time

250 Ackley Improved is nearly identical to 6.5 Creedmore. One bullet is .257 and the other .264. Can't tell them apart setting on a table unless you look at the headstamp.

7.65x53 and 8x51 Mauser cartridges look "modern."
21st century powder and 60000 psi actions and they would do about anything necessary.

The 6.5x57 Mauser has more taper and shoulder than is currently fashionable but is close to the "right" volume.

.276 Pedersen, for sure and literally *ahead of its time*.


Todd.

I believe the 6.5x55 Swede was ahead of its time. Great BC and unlike some other cartridges, not a major barrel burner. It knew its limits and didn't try to push it too far. They figured that out 100 years ago without fancy equipment.

My vote is for the 280 Ross. It was so far ahead of its time. To start with, as I have mentioned in many posts, it was the first commercially loaded cartridge to exceed 3000 FPS. In 1907. The 250-3000 savage didn't come along for another three years. The original load was a 145gr bullet @ 3145 FPS. With todays powders it can nip at the heels of a 7mm Rem. Mag. The first pic shows the size difference between a 280 and an 06. Btw, the Ross round is NOT belted. The round in the pic was formed from a .300 H&H case. The second is my M-10 sporter. Then my computer started drinking. The third pic is a page from the catalog. Sideways, courtesy of my half toasted puter. Now, fully inebriated, puter served up the next pic, showing my M-10 and the catalog. The last pic is strangely upright.

The story behind the cartridge itself is an interesting one. Sir Charles Ross thought the ideal caliber for military use was the 280. We had just adopted the 30-06. Ross took one look at that, scratched his chin, said "Hmmmmmm" and necked it down to .280, thereby inventing the 280 Remington without even knowing it! He tried and tried to reach his target of 3000 FPS but couldn't with the powders of the day. So he made his own cartridge. It never saw military use but proved to be a superb long range target round. It did outstandingly well in the 1912 and 13 Bisley matches, walking away with most of the trophies. At Creedmore, it did so well that it was banned. As a long range round, it outshone the 30-06.

While Ross' military rifles gained near universal condemnation, his sporting rifles were highly praised. Jack O'Conner thought highly of the 280 Ross. It was the first 7mm "Magnum"

Captcurt said:

I would have to pick the 284.

Click to expand...

Yeah first one that came to my mind

Goosey said:

6 Lee Navy was way ahead of its era. The 280 Ross has way too much taper by modern standards but its ballistics were excellent, think 280 AI but in 1906.

But a lot of the old designs still look surprisingly modern. The 6.5 Carcano came out in 1891 and the case doesn't have any weird 19th century proportions. Put a pointy bullet in there and it would look quite current.

Click to expand...

I believe the box of 6.5 Carcano I still have has spitzer bullets in it, and think it was marked 1939. Later/interwar stuff, maybe? Or designation for the arms it was designed for, as a replacement for the older stuff? I'm not read up on that specific history.
6.5 Carcano wasn't hindered by weird 19th century proportions, it was hindered by weird Italian interpretations of measurements and design decisions. Otherwise I could have seen it sticking around a bit.

.22 Savage Hi Power.

I think it was a small game-deer round from the factory, one of the first dual purpose rounds out there.

Stay safe.

I'll add 7 x 64 (1917).

ApacheCoTodd said:

.276 Pedersen, for sure and literally *ahead of its time*.
Todd.

Click to expand...

There was also a .256 Pedersen that would be even more in tune with present fashion.

The .280 Ross, also the .22 Savage High Power, got some intrepid Bwanas eaten or stepped on because they thought velocity was king.

Anyt of the Remington BR series - 22, 6mm, 25, 6.5, 7mm were all short fat cartridges that set the benchmark for silhouette accuracy with mild recoil

Jim Watson said:

The .280 Ross, also the .22 Savage High Power, got some intrepid Bwanas eaten or stepped on because they thought velocity was king.

Click to expand...

Mr. Grey would agree with you. He got ate. But he did prove that the 280 Ross is not a good lion gun.

220 Russian. Spawned the 22 and 6mm PPC, 6mmARC, and 6.5 Grendel. But it's an offspring of the 7.62x39.

tark said:

But he did prove that the 280 Ross is not a good lion gun.

Click to expand...

Probably as the lions did not oblige by remaining 800-1100m away (Our man Ross likely felt like 300m was "danger close").

250 Ackley Improved is nearly identical to 6.5 Creedmore. One bullet is .257 and the other .264. Can't tell them apart setting on a table unless you look at the headstamp.

Click to expand...

A good BC for a 25 caliber bullet is around .480 and they top out at around 120 gr. 264 bullets can be found closer to .700 BC with bullets up to 160 gr. There is no reason such a small difference in diameter should make such a difference, but it does. For whatever reason things just fell into place this way.

The .38 super for sure. It's fallen in and out of style more than my GF's shoes!

armedwalleye said:

I believe the Savage .250-3000 was considered at the time of production to be way ahead of it's time.

Click to expand...

Got to agree with this.
It was also somewhat ahead of the components of the time.

284 Winchester. It was a victim of bad marketing ideas for faster shooting and produced for less than stellar rifles. It should have been put in a short action Model 70 rifle instead of cross over operation in lever and semi auto designs, Models 88 and 100. Puke.
Neck it up or down and you have a decent amount of powder, slight taper case, a good neck all with a standard bolt face. The errors continued with the lack of manufacturing and marketing on the 6.5-284 Win / Norma. Oh well.

5.7x28mm.

I’m kidding, that is a round answering a question nobody asked.

Cartridges ahead of their time

Really? That is just silly.

.22 Spitfire. I have always wanted an M1 Carbine in that caliber.

CapnMac said:

Probably as the lions did not oblige by remaining 800-1100m away (Our man Ross likely felt like 300m was "danger close").

Click to expand...

The lion was charging. Grey fired and hit the cat several times, to no avail. The lightly constructed 145 gr bullets made ugly wounds but did not penetrate. The cartridge might do better with 175 gr. bullets, but a .287 diameter bullet, regardless of the weight, is nobodies idea of a good way to stop a charging lion.

tark said:

a good way to stop a charging lion

Click to expand...

Ross seemed to be more concerned with non-charging target bulls in far-off butts manned by the staff.

post deleted

Riomouse911 said:

22 Savage Hi Power.

Click to expand...

I'll second that. Beat the socks off anything else available at the time, but I think it had a few shortcomings insofar as the cases were concerned. Add to that the funky .228 caliber bullet, and you can see why the Hornet beat it out. Still, a quite interesting cartridge.

For myself, I humbly submit the .222 Remington as being ahead of it's time. Everything the 250-3000 could do in a smaller package.

Mac