Another dumb question

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tws3b2

tws3b2

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Got up this morning feeling a urge to ask a dumb question. So,
I always thought the steel used in firearms was fairly high grade. Especially for barrels, frames, cylinders and such. But a friend tells me that stainless steel used is actually a fairly low grade. He says you can tell by how well a magnet is attracted to it. I think he is about as knowledgeable as me on firearm steel. Very little. Is he right??
 
This is for Smith and Wesson:

"As for specific grades types 416 and 436 are commonly used for stainless steel gun barrels. IIRC 416 is preferred for hammer forged barrels and 436 for barrels featuring cut rifling."
 
Grade being high or low is irrelevant. The important thing is mechanical properties. Is it’s tensile strength enough to not blow under pressure? Is it flexible enough to be able to handle recoil properly but also rigid enough to not take a permanent bend? Is it a heat treatable material that can be machined soft and then hardened for actual use?
 
The 300 series austenitic stainless steels (containing higher nickel) are very corrosion resistant and find uses in the marine industry and are non-magnetic and cannot be heat treated. The 400 series martensitic steels (containing higher carbon) are not as corrosion resistant (relative) and find uses in the firearms industry and are magnetic and can be heat treated. The materials are chosen for manufacturing and suitability to purpose, 400 series steels are a bit easier to work with than high nickel content stainless and provide sufficient corrosion resistance for firearm use.
 
tws3b2 said:
But a friend tells me that stainless steel used is actually a fairly low grade. He says you can tell by how well a magnet is attracted to it.
Click to expand...
I should imagine your pal is referencing anti-corrosion more than material quality as he's grading stainless with a magnet.

He's generally *right* in a skewed perspective. A magnet to stainless can give you a blue-collar sense of its corrosion fighting properties - generally - while telling you nothing of the attributes suiting it to a firearms construction. Well, other than a thumbnail-sketch of carbon content - If I a recalling content correctly.

Todd.
 
It's not really "high grade" vs "low grade" with stainless. They just have different purposes. This is a generalization, but regarding stainless gun barrels:
A stainless barrel which is magnetic will less corrosion resistant, but have better accuracy due to the material being easier to work with.
Stainless which is non-magnetic will be more corrosion resistant.
 
I never owned any of them but I had always heard that some of the earliest stainless steel firearms suffered from durability problems because the stainless steels used were too soft. I own a couple stainless guns but manufactured after the metalergy caught up with firearms needs.
 
Well.... even my Egyptian rifle must have high quality steel. Over 2,500 rds. of Tula and Wolf used.

Gun steel reportedly is stronger than what Russia uses in the oft-dreaded steel-case ammo.
Why would Russia waste money on steel ammo as strong as the guns which consume it?

This might be one of the only true concerns among vast numbers of novice shooters.
 
tws3b2 said:
Got up this morning feeling a urge to ask a dumb question. So,
I always thought the steel used in firearms was fairly high grade. Especially for barrels, frames, cylinders and such. But a friend tells me that stainless steel used is actually a fairly low grade. He says you can tell by how well a magnet is attracted to it. I think he is about as knowledgeable as me on firearm steel. Very little. Is he right??
Click to expand...

Your question is not dumb, but, your friend is not very knowledgeable. ;)
 
tws3b2 said:
Got up this morning feeling a urge to ask a dumb question. So,
I always thought the steel used in firearms was fairly high grade. Especially for barrels, frames, cylinders and such. But a friend tells me that stainless steel used is actually a fairly low grade. He says you can tell by how well a magnet is attracted to it. I think he is about as knowledgeable as me on firearm steel. Very little. Is he right??
Click to expand...
To a certain extent he is right. Not about stainless steel but the fact that guns are not always made from alloy steels with all sorts of fancy alloying elements. German Kar 98k receivers were made from 1035 or 1040 plain carbon steel.

The thing is, when designing a firearm you start with what material is available, normally decided on cost and availability, and then you put enough of it where it needs to be to absorb the loads generated.
 
Middletown said:
I never owned any of them but I had always heard that some of the earliest stainless steel firearms suffered from durability problems because the stainless steels used were too soft. I own a couple stainless guns but manufactured after the metalergy caught up with firearms needs.
Click to expand...
Early stainless semi-autos suffered from galling with the frame and slide rubbing together.
 
tws3b2 said:
Got up this morning feeling a urge to ask a dumb question. So,
I always thought the steel used in firearms was fairly high grade. Especially for barrels, frames, cylinders and such. But a friend tells me that stainless steel used is actually a fairly low grade. He says you can tell by how well a magnet is attracted to it. I think he is about as knowledgeable as me on firearm steel. Very little. Is he right??
Click to expand...
Thanks for asking that question. I learned a lot today!
 
Bushmaster back in the early 2000s made a big deal of using 4150 ordnance steel in their chrome lined barrels. Maybe it was a bit of hype but I still use several of their older chrome-lined, 1/9 heavy barrels and they are outstanding for 5.56, generally capable of around one MOA with the right ammo
 
I have heard that the steel used in the 1903 Springfield would find use as rebar today.

Kevin
 
StrawHat said:
I have heard that the steel used in the 1903 Springfield would find use as rebar today.

Kevin
Click to expand...

Springfields were very high quality rifles that used different kinds of steel at different times.

The "low number" Springfields used good steel, but the heat-treating process was faulty. They were heated by the craftsman judging the temperature by eye. Tests showed that on bright, sunny days, they would let the steel get too hot, and on overcast days not so hot.

The heat-treating method was changed, and shortly thereafter the Army switched to nickel-steel, the finest available at the time.
 
Isn't it funny how someone's stupid question makes us smarter? Conversely, when someone supplies simple answers or "simple facts" it may indicate they do not realize what they do not know. Thanks to OP for smoking out some useful information.
 
Gun barrel are typically made from a medium carbon steel or comparable stainless so that they can be hardened but since you do not want a gun barrel much harder than about HRC 42 there is no need to use a high carbon steel.

4140, 4150, 4340 are commonly used steels. But you can pick one specific alloy and still find a huge range of quality depending on who and how it was smelted, and formed into billets or bars. Obviously the manufacturing process also has a huge effect on the final quality of the barrel. You can start with the best alloy and screw it up with bad machining or improper heat treat.

This said allot of 22lr barrels have been made from good old 1018 or 1020 and similar low carbon steel. Remington used 1018 in all the 597 and Marlin 60 barrels.
 
mcb said:
Gun barrel are typically made from a medium carbon steel or comparable stainless so that they can be hardened but since you do not want a gun barrel much harder than about HRC 42 there is no need to use a high carbon steel.

4140, 4150, 4340 are commonly used steels. But you can pick one specific alloy and still find a huge range of quality depending on who and how it was smelted, and formed into billets or bars. Obviously the manufacturing process also has a huge effect on the final quality of the barrel. You can start with the best alloy and screw it up with bad machining or improper heat treat.

This said allot of 22lr barrels have been made from good old 1018 or 1020 and similar low carbon steel. Remington used 1018 in all the 597 and Marlin 60 barrels.
Click to expand...

Along with the above, proper heat treatment and tempering are just as important. Even with a good quality material, if it is too hard it will be brittle and crack/break easily. Too soft and it will peen really bad.
 
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