I was shocked by Gen. Teddy Roosevelt Jr.

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IIRC the Krag was officially described as a "magazine " rifle, the older use of magazine meant a fixed location where ammunition was stored.
TR Jr. fought in both World Wars so he's entitled to use whatever terms he wants.
Our friendly old M-1 Carbine is not strictly speaking a "carbine", it shares nothing with the M-1 Rifle, not even the ammo. But we have lived with that designation all these years.
 
WestKentucky said:
In my mind I did gymnastics at this point. I was already being a bit snarky about it being an en-bloc clip for a garand, but my mind also saw the word pistol and immediately went to GARAND PISTOL? Oh Hell Yes!!! So, m1 garand pistol in 30-06, barrel ending right in front of the sling swivel, lopped off stock, pistol brace with folding or collapsing mechanism (think m1 carbine paratrooper) all done up in walnut and parkerizing and being period correct. That is a fantasy weapon of all fantasy weapons.

I could not get my mind off of this and found something similar to what I was envisioning.
Photo snagged from Reddit.
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Not a pistol.
If it started life as a rifle, it can be an SBR, but never a pistol.
Looks like a folding rifle stock, not a folding arm brace.



Anybody packing this is a bad mamma-jamma for sure.
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And possibly a felon.;)
 
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All I have to say is this......those who have been there will know from whence it came.

This is my rifle, this is my gun.
This one’s for shootin’,
This one’s for fun.
 
Along with clip/magazine goes the headspace argument; where is it and what is it.

I know, and you probably do to, (what it means to us) so let's not open that discussion, even if, with the lock down, we have time.
 
Died of a heart attack about a month after D-Day. He was 56 and not in the best of health. Probably shouldn't have been allowed to go ashore.

Technically a clip is not a magazine. A magazine is where ammo is stored, a clip is used to load a magazine faster. But the military has a language of their own and that often carries over into civilian life. The most commonly used American rifle was the M1 which was loaded with clips. I can see where it was easier to use one word for everything. Even in the 1940's most soldiers were holding a rifle for the 1st time when they were drafted.

A General Purpose 1/4 ton vehicle with the initials GP on it became a JEEP. A High Mobility Multi Purpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV) is a Humvee. Lets just say the difference between a clip and a magazine has been FUBAR since the 1940's and it isn't worth trying to change. I however will refer to magazines as magazines. Do what makes you happy.
 
"We gotta nip this in the bud, Andy! Before long, they'll be calling everything gun-related a clip!"

You know, Lee Harvey Oswald had a clip, in the magazine of his Carcano. Just sayin'
 
okay, few can do that.... but we all can show someone a dictionary, and say "c.l.i.p... look it up". Gun people offended by by the word clip are like those people who want you to call the wheels "rims" and their spoiler "a wing".... or those who insist you can't use the words of an expression in a way other than an expression. Them: "its a magazine, not a clip" Me "your point is mute" Them: "Its moot", Me: "no, your point is mute, that is it has no voice, its week, and I'm not listening. read a dictionary, c.l.i.p, its in there" Them: (shaking head) "idiot your why are second amendments failing"
 
Hog huntin Harry said:
Well you see, the problem is that it's not just kids, it's adults too.
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Well, it's really just part of language development and I have no complaint about this process anyhow. It's the self-righteous chips on shoulders about it that bothers me. I'm 100% right and you're 100% wrong.

"Gun" used to be "gonne. And there's "petard." And how many think "epitome" means the top level when it really means some average or representative quality?

Isn't that cool?
 
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I feel like this difference makes sense if you’re an engineer. Clips and magazines are technically very different. Say the wrong one and it is a meaningful inaccuracy.

For the end user it’s not. A clip makes a firearm with a fixed magazine quickly loaded with multiple cartridges. A detachable box magazine makes a firearm quickly loaded with multiple cartridges. Not to mention Lee-Enfields with removable box magazines fed by clips.

I’m curious when people started to care about the difference (who aren’t engineers).
 
When I went through BCT we were told we had "rifles", "pieces", "weapons"-only the artillery had "guns".
TR Jr. was the oldest American and the only general to go ashore in the first wave on D-Day. He realized his troops had landed about a mile south of where they should have been, he made a quick recon, realized they were in a gap in the German defenses, he told his subordinate commanders:
"We may as well begin the war here."
 
tmd16556 said:
I feel like this difference makes sense if you’re an engineer. Clips and magazines are technically very different. Say the wrong one and it is a meaningful inaccuracy.

For the end user it’s not. A clip makes a firearm with a fixed magazine quickly loaded with multiple cartridges. A detachable box magazine makes a firearm quickly loaded with multiple cartridges. Not to mention Lee-Enfields with removable box magazines fed by clips.

I’m curious when people started to care about the difference (who aren’t engineers).
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Predominantly when ignorant celebrities, politicians, and media operatives for anti-civil rights groups like Bloomberg’s various fronts, the Brady Bunch, the Gifford Deception etc., fielded the term during their disjointed attacks on RKBA. As in “We need to ban high capacity clips and guns where the shoulder thingy goes up”.

That’s when.
 
And welding rods are actually “electrodes”
Cars are actually “automobiles”
Tomatoes are fruits and not vegetables, stainless steel stains, sailors only call ropes “lines,” and most the time when we use a restroom we call it a “bathroom” even when theres no bathtub.
All the stupid things humans waste energy arguing about. Could start a good thread just on this topic.
 
Col. Charles Askins who spent decades in the military, won several pistol shooting titles, hunted on several continents, and spent his whole life writing about guns and hunting was known to use the term "clip" interchangeably with the word "magazine". I'm pretty sure that Bill Jordan did too.

Remington has sold magazines with the term 'clip' on the packages and at one time advertised some of their magazine-fed guns as "clip-fed repeaters". As I recall, Marlin has also used the term 'clip' to refer to magazines in some of their literature/advertising.

I seem to recall that some of the Army's old 1911 manuals referred to the magazines as 'clips'.

Even assuming that there really is solid evidence that one term is clearly right and one is clearly wrong, it's really not that big of a deal.

These things happen because it's just not that important to get everything exactly right every single time we open our mouths. Sometimes because it just doesn't matter, sometimes because the incorrect usage is so common that it's weird and stilted to actually make a point of getting them right.

We talk about the sun rising and setting, even though we know that the apparent motion is really due to the rotation of the earth and not the movement of the sun. It's common to say that there are 365 days in a year even though the real number is more like 365.2422 days. Practically everyone uses 300,000,000m/s as the value of the speed of light when doing calculations even though it's really 299,792,458m/s. When kinetic energy is calculated in the firearms world, odds are, the wrong conversion factor is used for going from pounds to slugs but almost nobody even knows or cares. People hardly raise an eyebrow over approximating 1 MOA at 100 yards as 1" even though that's the same error as approximating pi as 3--something that most people would get pretty excited about.

I really don't know why the 'clip' vs 'magazine' issue became such a big deal when other very common errors like 'FMJ' (these bullets are usually not FULLY jacketed--the base is commonly exposed), 'muzzle break' (it's 'brake') and 'the breach of the gun' ('breech' is the term--it means something quite different from 'breach') and 'aperature sight' (only one 'a' in 'aperture') seem to pass unnoticed. Why don't people pounce when someone equates iron sights with open sights (peep sights/ghost ring sights/aperture sights are iron sights, but are not open sights) or use the term 'iron sights' when the sights are actually made out of something other than iron? It's a mystery...
 
I still suspect it began when some DI decided that insisting on the differentiation was a good way to instill obedience and discipline into his recruits. Akin: "This is my rifle, this is my gun."

So do they call "Gunnies" "Rifleries?" :evil:

Seems to me they ought to. :neener:

Terry
 
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GEM said:
The son of the President, he led the landings on Utah Beach on D-Day and received the Medal of Honor.

However, he said:


So if you puff up and pontificate when someone says 'clip', show your Medal of Honor and the beaches you landed upon.
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Firmly in the WHOG_S category..Much to do about nothing, IMHO..The General can call it whatever he wishes.

But some person who isn't as 'gun knowledgeable' as you and you get all agro with him if he calls it a 'clip'...well....He sure isn't going to ask to go learn about shooting from you.
 
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Second definition in Miriam Webster, N.B. all after "also"...

": a device to hold cartridges for charging the magazines of some rifles
also : a magazine from which ammunition is fed into the chamber of a firearm."
 
Clips, a hold over when many military rifles had clip fed box magazines is just easier to say than detachable box magazine. :rofl:
 
My Dad joined a cavalry unit pre-WWII. At that time, the unit was half horse, half armored car. The rifle was the 1903 Springfield. So, he knew what stripper clips were. And he knew what enbloc clips were, when he used the Garand at Falaise. He was a weapons Sargent and qualified on all the Browning machine guns and in fact, taught their use, care, and employment. He also qualified on all the common infantry weapons, as well as teaching others how to use captured German MG’s..he had a collection of them for that purpose.
He would use the terms clip and magazine interchangeably.
It wasn’t u til the rise of the internet that I ever saw anybody raise the issue, and usually, it was to belittle somebody’s post.
 
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