I was shocked by Gen. Teddy Roosevelt Jr.

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We all know what clips are and what magazines are and that many interchange the two terms, we all know that - that horse is dead, it died a long time ago. It has been dead so long that there is nothing left to beat anymore. Let’s move onto the proper caliber for killing a bear or the best target caliber or M70 vs M700 or even Ford vs Chevy .....
 
Alaskan Ironworker said:
And welding rods are actually “electrodes”
Cars are actually “automobiles”
Tomatoes are fruits and not vegetables, stainless steel stains, sailors only call ropes “lines,” and most the time when we use a restroom we call it a “bathroom” even when theres no bathtub.
All the stupid things humans waste energy arguing about. Could start a good thread just on this topic.
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All I know is, I read magazines and I load clips.
And I’m very happily ignorant........
 
When it comes to terms the nice people at SAAMI do offer up a Glossary of Terms. The idea being improved communication. While they make no mention of clip they do define a magazine and I remember assorted bases I was assigned to having magazines which were storage areas for ammunition and explosive ordinance. SAAMI also defines other trivia we see argued on forums all the time including headspace gauges and other fun terminology. :)

Ron
 
mjsdwash said:
okay, few can do that.... but we all can show someone a dictionary, and say "c.l.i.p... look it up". Gun people offended by by the word clip are like those people who want you to call the wheels "rims" and their spoiler "a wing".... or those who insist you can't use the words of an expression in a way other than an expression. Them: "its a magazine, not a clip" Me "your point is mute" Them: "Its moot", Me: "no, your point is mute, that is it has no voice, its week, and I'm not listening. read a dictionary, c.l.i.p, its in there" Them: (shaking head) "idiot your why are second amendments failing"
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Malapropism winner of the Internet today!

Oh the unintended hilarity.
 
This magazine/clip thing started well before the internet. I came of military age right on the cusp of the M14/M16. Both were defined by the military as having detachable magazines. The drill sergeants taught that terminology because that is what the book said to do. Before that, any fixed storage for ammo was called a magazine and pretty much anything detachable was called a clip. It is just natural evolution of the language. You know, like, totally tubular, dude. I know we like to blame the internet for everything, but it is just an accelerator for change. Change has always happened and will continue. I suppose we will soon exchange our 'detachable magazines' for 'power supplies' to use in our 'ray gun' 'laser rifle' 'phazer' 'plasma rifle'. Or maybe they will be 'fusion power cells'. Hard to predict the future.
 
Alaskan Ironworker said:
sailors only call ropes “lines,”
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Unless manropes or footropes; everything else is a line. Whether natural fiber or wire rope [:)]

230RN said:
So do they call "Gunnies" "Rifleries?"
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Marines had a organizational split of Line; Ordnance; and Technical. The Ordnance Section was known as the "Gunnery" section.
The Sergeant rank existed in all three of those organizations. At Pay Grade Two (two ticks under the three chevrons), there were First Sergeants, Gunnery Sergeants, and Technical Sergeants. At least until 1947, and the 9 level "E" system was adopted.
So, they were not "rifle" Gunnies, but "Gunner" sergeants.

The Marine insignia took some twists and turns along the way. A non-Line LCPL had a colored arc below their chevron, a Line (Gunnery & Line had merged) LCPL had crossed rifles in the arc under the chevron. (Although, LCPL still occasionally get called "rifle privates" based on their insignia.)
 
A relative bought a used .22 Marlin rifle,
The kind that came with a detachable box magazine.
Hers was missing the magazine.
I found one at the local gun shop labelled "7 shot Clip" in the factory packaging.
That did not surprise me.
All through the 1950s I read and heard detachable box magazines called clips especially with sporting guns.

I suppose clip v magazine all started with the 1960s sergeants in Basic Training getting really picky distinguishing stripper clips from box magazines.
I suspect that started with NATO standardization and tacking x mm case length on the end of cartridge names.
I am not going to be calling in an emergency air drop of ammo in clips actually meaning we were desperate and needed ammo in preloaded in magazines (that's the only reason I can see to be picky about clip v magazine.)
The civilian Marlin Model 25 never had stripper clips, so people knew what you meant when you said clip.
 
Me:
"This is my rifle, this is my gun."

So do they call "Gunnies" "Rifleries?" :evil:

Seems to me they ought to. :neener:
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CapnMac:

"Marines had a organizational split of Line; Ordnance; and Technical. The Ordnance Section was known as the "Gunnery" section.
The Sergeant rank existed in all three of those organizations. At Pay Grade Two (two ticks under the three chevrons), there were First Sergeants, Gunnery Sergeants, and Technical Sergeants. At least until 1947, and the 9 level "E" system was adopted.
So, they were not "rifle" Gunnies, but "Gunner" sergeants."

Thanks for the explanation for "Gunnery/Gunner Sergeant," CapnMac. :)

Dammit, now the next time I want to make that wisecrack I'll have to pretend to have forgotten it. Or make sure you're not lookin'. :cool:

Terry, 230RN
 
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kcofohio said:
I read a book once of personal interviews in chronological order leading up to, during, and after D-Day. There were a few eyewitness accounts of Gen. Roosevelt Jr. on Omaha Utah Beach. Though in not the best of heath, IIRC, was larger than life in action.
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FIFY

He was the 4th Infantry Division's Assistant Division Commander and landed on D-Day. You can watch Henry Fonda portraying him in The Longest Day. He died a few weeks later of a heart attack.
 
Kevin Rohrer said:
FIFY

He was the 4th Infantry Division's Assistant Division Commander and landed on D-Day. You can watch Henry Fonda portraying him in The Longest Day. He died a few weeks later of a heart attack.
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Yes, I stand corrected. It was over 20 yrs. ago that I read that book.
I wish I could find that book again. All I remember is the title was "Normandy". They did interviews of from Privates to Colonels. From England and the buildup, to the hedgerow fighting in France.
 
One of the perceived shortcomings of the M-1 that was corrected in the M-14 was that the M-14's magazine could be topped off in the rifle using stripper clips. The British decided very early on that the detachable magazine of the Lee Netfords/Lee Enfields would remain in the rifle and the soldier would reload with stripper clips.
Again, a magazine originally meant a fixed location or place.
The purpose of terminology is to describe exactly and make carefully delineated distinctions. Who here doesn't
know the difference between say 9MM Short and 9MMP ? Yes, I know, 380 ACP was adopted to make the difference much clearer.
Citing TR Jr as an authority ? What was it Patton said of him ?
"A brave man, but no soldier?"
And when asked what was the bravest thing he saw on D-Day, Bradley replied:
"Ted Roosevelt, Utah Beach."
 
GEM said:
The son of the President, he led the landings on Utah Beach on D-Day and received the Medal of Honor.

However, he said:


So if you puff up and pontificate when someone says 'clip', show your Medal of Honor and the beaches you landed upon.
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OK I'll dig 'em out...


JK of course
We called em clips back in the 80's. back home. The term came from somewhere...
 
GEM said:
The son of the President, he led the landings on Utah Beach on D-Day and received the Medal of Honor.

However, he said:


So if you puff up and pontificate when someone says 'clip', show your Medal of Honor and the beaches you landed upon.
Click to expand...
As a technician, I don't ask a pilot what the proper nomenclature of aircraft parts are. I tell him.
 
"During World War II, Terry de la Mesa Allen and Theodore Roosevelt, Jr.,were ”relieved” during a victorious campaign. These two men commanded the lst Infantry Division of the United States Army, which, even their strongest critics admitted, under the two generals’ “inspirational leadership,” was by far the best division fighting against the Germans in North Africa and Sicily."

Who Fired Terry Allen and Ted Roosevelt, Jr., the best Combat Generals? - Warfare History Network

Were they fired for calling magazines "CLIPS" ??
 
It's interesting how tepid his MoH narrative is. Recognizing that to be on that beach once would have been bad enough and yet he was supposed to have revisited it repeatedly... the narrative is blunt.

Then of course, that made me look into the particulars of his Dad's MoH which again was, well, tepid.

Todd.
 
tmd16556 said:
I feel like this difference makes sense if you’re an engineer. Clips and magazines are technically very different. Say the wrong one and it is a meaningful inaccuracy.

For the end user it’s not. A clip makes a firearm with a fixed magazine quickly loaded with multiple cartridges. A detachable box magazine makes a firearm quickly loaded with multiple cartridges. Not to mention Lee-Enfields with removable box magazines fed by clips.

I’m curious when people started to care about the difference (who aren’t engineers).
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I just can't see the SEAL or MARSOC operators getting their panties in a wad over this stuff, Check it:

Seal 1-"You got any more clips, for a Sig?"

Seal 2-"They're called MAGAZINES, dorkus !"
 
GEM said:
The son of the President, he led the landings on Utah Beach on D-Day and received the Medal of Honor.

However, he said:


So if you puff up and pontificate when someone says 'clip', show your Medal of Honor and the beaches you landed upon.
Click to expand...
It only meant to me that he was NOT about to see much if ANY action.

No COMBAT soldier goes into a fray with only one load for his weapon..

So 'clip' or magazine,are you in for the fight or posing ?.
 
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When you win the Medal of Honor let us know. The situation on the beaches was not settled when he landed. Geez.
 
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