If shotguns were invented in 2021, would 20 gauge be the best gauge?

No

Makes sense to me the way you've put it. Waterfowlers would still want 12 ga. I certainly would. I've taken to 20 ga and TSS for Turkey and use a 20 more often than not on pheasants and chukkar. But I still shoot 12 for clays, albeit 1 oz loads.

Macchina said:

I have mostly 12 gauge shotguns, a few 20 gauge (which I've come to love) my Dad loves his 16 gauge, my uncle shoots turkey with a 10 gauge, and my hunting buddy uses a 28 gauge and 410. In my short lifetime they have all become far more effective.

When shotguns were created they were blackpowder muzzleloaders. Then blackpowder paper cases with paper wads. Then smokeless powder, plastic hulls, plastic wads, and interchangable hulls were invented...

I mostly hunt with 12ga #6 1oz loads (rabbit, squirrel, Partridge, etc). Now that I use a 20 gauge I find #6 1oz loads very common. Effects on game are the same at all ranges but with guns that are 2 pounds lighter.

I also have hunted turkeys with 1.5 oz #5 shot and have plenty of #3 buck and 3/4 oz slugs for my 20 gauges.

The 6 and 8 gauges are extinct and the 10 gauge is rare as hens teeth.

If shotguns were invented today would a smaller diameter shell like the 20 gauge be the primary option with something like the 12 gauge being the ultra magnum option only used for high geese and long long range turkeys?

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20 is my primary option now for upland, but 12 would be for more than high geese and long turkey. 12 can hold more and a 1 1/4 oz load for pheasant would be hard to beat, not to mention steel loads for ducks. You can get more steel in a 12. For close range coyote, a load of big shot in a 12 ga 3 1/2 magnum or a 10 ga is the ticket from what I read. I have never shotgunned a coyote myself, but one author I read swore by his Ithaca 10 auto.

16 would still be the best gauge.

I’ve used 20 ga for skeet, even in 12 ga events for ever.

But for hunting, 12 ga is a serious option.

Rudolph31 said:

16 would still be the best gauge.

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I can't think of a thing a 16 can do that a 3 inch 20 can't.

I guess 12ga. has never been an option for me. Only had one and it was traded to me and shortly after found a new home. I have always been able to do what I want with a 20ga. so why change. I've purchased a couple of .410's but never a 12ga and as old as I am now it probably isn't going to happen.
There is a feeling among most men that bigger is better so I don't think the 12ga. will ever loose favor.

I prefer the 20 for most everything, except when I am on the water (meaning shots are usually farther) and then it is 3" shells in the 12 guage

A case could be made for the 28 gauge, but 20 is just easier to get than anything other than 12.

HowieG said:

A case could be made for the 28 gauge, but 20 is just easier to get than anything other than 12.

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I'll make that case: If shotguns were just being invented (as the OP says), then availability of ANY gauge would be nil. We'd be starting from scratch. I'd love to see plentiful, affordable 28-gauge ammo. I sold my only 28 because of ridiculous ammo prices.

toivo said:

I'll make that case: If shotguns were just being invented (as the OP says), then availability of ANY gauge would be nil. We'd be starting from scratch. I'd love to see plentiful, affordable 28-gauge ammo. I sold my only 28 because of ridiculous ammo prices.

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28 appeals to me also. The little guns are just nice looking. They don't have that whippy 410 barrel look. I have come close to buying one more than once, but the ammo situation halted that. I didn't want to be forced into loading 28 just so I could shoot it. Also, I have a 20 gauge Franchi AL48 that weighs 5 1/4 lbs. I couldn't beat that with a 28, so I gave up the idea of owning one as impractical.

Interesting question! Much if not most of the popularity of the 12ga can be attributed to its ubiquity and the wide range of loads. Obviously if we were starting with a clean sheet of paper that wouldn't be an issue but it's a chicken-or-the-egg situation; did it achieve such popularity because it was the best option or did it become popular by chance and the head start gave us so many loadings? The 20ga is certainly versatile but anything it can do the 12ga can do a little better. If all I had was the 20ga I'd get by and if there was no 12ga then there'd probably be more 20ga.

Still I think the 12ga is about the best of existing shotgun options. IMOHO it's about as big as you can go while still being pretty mild to shoot with cheap trap/field loads and potent enough that you seldom would need to step up to the 10ga.

.22 LR?


7-Barrel Mitrailleuse: Like a Shotgun But Accurate


[COLOR=rgba(17, 17, 17, 0.6)] Pieper’s 7-barrel Mitrailleuse was essentially a rimfire volley gun. It was offer in both .22 rimfire and .32 rimfire calibers, both models having clusters of 7 rifled barrels which fired simultaneously with a single trigger pull. The purpose was to offer an alternative to the large-bore punt gun for effective hunting of fowl at extended range. A volley from one of these was essentially like firing a round of buckshot, but with each pellet actually a rifled bullet, thus providing much improved accuracy.
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Interesting question. Im going to look at it from a slug gun perspective.

I have owned and used very few 12 ga shotguns. I don’t have one presently. I grew up deer hunting with shotguns as I lived in a shotgun only area. Back then many folks used 12 ga for deer but slowly moved to 20. I don’t know why this happened anymore. Maybe someone wrote a magazine article to boost the popularity and then people realized they had been beating themselves up senselessly with 12 ga for years.

I’m usually a bigger is better type but I agree 20 ga works so close to just as good as 12 as to be negligible with lower recoil to boot. Fosters and sabots both. No nonsense like “modern bullet technology” either. It just works. The bullets in the sabot rounds of either are formidable as are the foster slugs. DRTs are very common. This experience makes me despise most rifle rounds for better or worse.

Outside of the rapidly declining world of shotgun deer hunting, I find 20ga perfectly capable for everything I do. I will be turkey hunting for the first time this year and used that as an excuse to buy a gun I have wanted for a long time, a Browning BPS 10 ga. See, I truly have no use for 12ga.

Many people buy hunting guns based on an intended use. Sometimes that intended use is more realistic than what they “might” use it for. For example, you buy a rifle. You primarily hunt deer so maybe a 243 or the like is the initial choice. But, maybe one day your going to go elk hunting. Maybe you should get that 30-06. That will still work for deer too and you would also have an elk gun. 30-06 sold.

Same thing with shotguns. Maybe I will take up duck hunting or turkey and need that 12 ga with 3 1/2 chamber even if they are not presently a hunter of either of those things.

A single 12 ga can truly do all shotgunning without much fuss. It is a one gun plan.

If shotguns were invented today I think the 3” 16 gauge would be the most popular. With the advances in steel alternative ammo the 20 gauge is finding its way back into the duck and goose blind. I even read about people shooting ducks with a 4 10.

I don’t own a 16 gauge but I have several 12’s and 20’s and think something in the middle (assuming the 16 gauge is 3”) would be prefect.

Browning’s A5 16 gauge is less than 6 pounds compared to 7 or 7+ on most 12 gauges. What a difference for carrying upland or standing in waste deep water shooting ducks.

It would also be more than enough for turkeys. I switched to a twenty for turkey hunting last year.

HowieG said:

I can't think of a thing a 16 can do that a 3 inch 20 can't.

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Except pattern. But just like a .38 Special isn’t the same as a .357 Magnum, neither are the 20 and 20 Mag.

HowieG said:

I can't think of a thing a 16 can do that a 3 inch 20 can't.

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If one is shooting the exact same payload in a 20 and a 16, I believe the 16 gauge will pattern a little better as a rule. And a 12 will pattern better than a 16 using the same criteria.

earlthegoat2 said:

I’m usually a bigger is better type but I agree 20 ga works so close to just as good as 12 as to be negligible with lower recoil to boot.

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A light weight 20 gauge with heavy loads can have some pretty brutal recoil.

My response to the OP’s question is 12 gauge would still be king. The Federal no lead shot requirement for migratory waterfowl makes 12 gauge the better option for hunting said birds. Also if you only have one shotgun to do everything then 12 gauge wins due to greater versatility. I use 12 gauge for duck and 20 gauge for everything else including turkey.

Rudolph31 said:

Except pattern. But just like a .38 Special isn’t the same as a .357 Magnum, neither are the 20 and 20 Mag.

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The 38 special, and the 38 S&W for that matter can be shot out of a 357 gun. All the 20 shells can be run through a 3 inch 20 if you want to do the one gun thing. I guess there are people with one gun out there anyway.....

cdb1 said:

If one is shooting the exact same payload in a 20 and a 16, I believe the 16 gauge will pattern a little better as a rule. And a 12 will pattern better than a 16 using the same criteria.

A light weight 20 gauge with heavy loads can have some pretty brutal recoil.

My response to the OP’s question is 12 gauge would still be king. The Federal no lead shot requirement for migratory waterfowl makes 12 gauge the better option for hunting said birds. Also if you only have one shotgun to do everything then 12 gauge wins due to greater versatility. I use 12 gauge for duck and 20 gauge for everything else including turkey.

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Having never patterned a 16, I doubt there is very much to choose from between a 20 pattern and a 16 pattern since they are real close in bore diameter (.615 to .662). At .729, a 12 gauge has a significantly larger bore.

Yep, the 12 is better for ALL of the heavy lifting unless we could get some modernized and optimized 10 gauge loads, and even then, I would think a 3.5" 12 gun would handle better. Just a guess mind you, since I have never handled a 3.5" 12 or a 10 guage.

I used to be that one shotgun man, and it was a 3 inch 12 ga. Then I figured out that the gun was too darned heavy and I bought a couple of 20 ga. guns. Now that 12 is set up with a short barrel for slugs and buck and lives in my closet in case of bad days.

<shaking head>
If the shotgun where invented in the 21st century you do know it would be metric dimensions right?

10mm for tiny varmints
15mm for small birds
18mm for larger game

alfsauve said:

<shaking head>
If the shotgun where invented in the 21st century you do know it would be metric dimensions right?

10mm for tiny varmints
15mm for small birds
18mm for larger game

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Why's that? I have a .224 Valkyrie developed in the 21st century.

HowieG said:

Having never patterned a 16, I doubt there is very much to choose from between a 20 pattern and a 16 pattern since they are real close in bore diameter (.615 to .662). At .729, a 12 gauge has a significantly larger bore.

Yep, the 12 is better for ALL of the heavy lifting unless we could get some modernized and optimized 10 gauge loads, and even then, I would think a 3.5" 12 gun would handle better. Just a guess mind you, since I have never handled a 3.5" 12 or a 10 guage.

I used to be that one shotgun man, and it was a 3 inch 12 ga. Then I figured out that the gun was too darned heavy and I bought a couple of 20 ga. guns. Now that 12 is set up with a short barrel for slugs and buck and lives in my closet in case of bad days.

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As I said pattern a little better, not a lot. There are of course a number of variables that go into how a shotgun patterns.

I refuse to shoot 3.5” shells in a 12 gauge, I will shoot 10 gauge. Reason being weight. A 10 gauge Browning Gold weighs around 2.5 lbs more than a Browning Maxus 3.5” 12 gauge for example.

Rudolph31 said:

Except pattern. But just like a .38 Special isn’t the same as a .357 Magnum, neither are the 20 and 20 Mag.

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I’ll bite, what’s a 20 Mag?

cdb1 said:

As I said pattern a little better, not a lot. There are of course a number of variables that go into how a shotgun patterns.

I refuse to shoot 3.5” shells in a 12 gauge, I will shoot 10 gauge. Reason being weight. A 10 gauge Browning Gold weighs around 2.5 lbs more than a Browning Maxus 3.5” 12 gauge for example.

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I hear you. I am NOT a magnum fan. My 12 takes 3 inch, but I have never shot 3 inch in it. I would if I really really needed to though. More gun weight and a good recoil pad is the key. There really is this constant battle between the weight of gun you are willing to carry all day and the amount of recoil you are willing/able to put up with. My tolerance for heavy weight guns has decreased over the years, but so has my tolerance for recoil. You can, of course, mitigate some of the recoil by using an semiauto gun.