Shot Placement (Most Vital Spots Ranked)

I think it's worth noting that Ken Hackathorn places a lot of emphasis on training to a level of ability where you can make head shots at least out to 12 meters when necessary. He points out than in some church shootings and other active killer events it may be the only way to end the spree quickly or the perp may have body armor (as such things are usually planned out well ahead, not crimes of passion). Clearly it's difficult to always know ahead of time what kind of gunfight it might be since the terms are almost always dictated by the perp, not the legally armed citizen. Since we won't know until we get there it's best to train to as high a standard as is practical for each individual.

I know that military analogies aren’t always appropriate for civilian SD but regarding shot placement I think there are lessons to be learned and it’s certainly cemented my belief in aiming for COM.


Firstly, look to high-level units for their CQB drills. Yes the setting is very different from a civilian SD one but the basic principle is the same, be quicker and more accurate than the other person. These units actually apply the theory we discuss and I still have yet to see a unit that picks the head over COM unless circumstances like body armour, cover etc dictate otherwise but that’a rarely a concern for a civilian defending himself.


Force-on-force is a real eye opener when it comes to accuracy. Stress erodes accuracy as everyone knows but without pressure testing skills and drills I’m not sure that enough people really know just how bad this erosion can be. Again with military force-on-force it’s not always relevant to civilian life but It highlights how horrible it can be facing someone who is also trained and dedicated. People move around a lot in these situations and with the threat of pain (or death in reality), the stress of making every shot count is very high and with that the chances of making a hit drops. This isn’t the time to chase smaller targets, the COM will present the highest probably of a hit and therefor a higher probability stopping the threat quicker.

Phaedrus/69 said:

I think it's worth noting that Ken Hackathorn places a lot of emphasis on training to a level of ability where you can make head shots at least out to 12 meters when necessary. He points out than in some church shootings and other active killer events it may be the only way to end the spree quickly or the perp may have body armor (as such things are usually planned out well ahead, not crimes of passion). Clearly it's difficult to always know ahead of time what kind of gunfight it might be since the terms are almost always dictated by the perp, not the legally armed citizen. Since we won't know until we get there it's best to train to as high a standard as is practical for each individual.

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I think it's also worth noting that "plac[ing] a lot of emphasis on training to a level of ability where you can make head shots at least out to 12 meters when necessary" is stupid if you haven't already developed at least the basic skills necessary to handle COM shots at the 3 to 7 yard range.

This is not to say longer distance shooting skills aren't necessary, but "a lot of emphasis" implies "the majority of one's time and training". Most self defense scenarios take place at more intimate distances, and those shorter distances involve their own difficulties which make shooting more of a challenge.

Greater range eliminates a lot of those challenges because it opens up the time to respond.

DO get some distance shooting skills, but don't sacrifice your shorter rage skills to do so.

RetiredUSNChief said:

I think it's also worth noting that "plac[ing] a lot of emphasis on training to a level of ability where you can make head shots at least out to 12 meters when necessary" is stupid if you haven't already developed at least the basic skills necessary to handle COM shots at the 3 to 7 yard range.

This is not to say longer distance shooting skills aren't necessary, but "a lot of emphasis" implies "the majority of one's time and training". Most self defense scenarios take place at more intimate distances, and those shorter distances involve their own difficulties which make shooting more of a challenge.

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If you're familiar with Hackathorn you'll know that he doesn't give extreme close range work the short shrift, either. His approach is pretty well rounded. That's really the point I was trying to make- your skills have to be well rounded. Certainly COM shots inside of 15' have stopped a lot of gunfights. Just be aware that we can't really expect there to be a one-size-fits-all approach to defensive firearms use.

Phaedrus/69 said:

If you're familiar with Hackathorn you'll know that he doesn't give extreme close range work the short shrift, either. His approach is pretty well rounded. That's really the point I was trying to make- your skills have to be well rounded. Certainly COM shots inside of 15' have stopped a lot of gunfights. Just be aware that we can't really expect there to be a one-size-fits-all approach to defensive firearms use.

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OK.

I'll just take it as something "lost in the translation" then. Sometimes little snippets lose something without the full context.

FL-NC said:

The upper 1/3 chest between the nipples was our standard desired POI. However, the center mass head may be all that is available, and a shooter must be prepared to exploit this situation, should circumstances dictate. In some cases, if a "non-lethal" shot is all that is available, it may be in the shooter's best interest (depending on situation) to take that shot that may not be normally desired. In other words, if all I can see is the bad guy's foot, I may decide to shoot him in that foot, if the situation is such that I would be better off and he/she would be worse off with a hole in the foot- and if such a bold move wouldn't place others at greater risk.

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If you can shoot a foot, shoot a foot....they’ll then be busy trying to find some clean drawers.....not shooting at you.

Roknstevo said:

If you can shoot a foot, shoot a foot....they’ll then be busy trying to find some clean drawers.....not shooting at you.

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That is not an incorrect way of looking at it.

If at close range, "on top of you" the 'zipper technique works well", Drawing and holding the gun at holster height, with your gun "hand", tilted away from the body so as not to interfere with the slide. Try to get your head over the weapon and fire at the testicles, working your way up to the head, Thus the zipper, the lower body is the first thing you hit as the gun is at that level, when - un holstered "most of the time", tilting back make your hit's go higher if you are not able to extend your arm. Just another method to try.

There are a number of people who are a proponent of the zipper method. The problem with the zipper method is that it assumes that you will be able to get off more than one shot. Unfortunately, there have been several instances where people involved in shootings were unable to do such things (even if they tried) because of things such as a gun malfunction or other interference with the shooting of the gun because the threat is "on top of you."

With the zipper method, your first (and potentially last shot) is a non-vital shot.

If you can quick draw and aim at the testicles, (which BTW hang BELOW the body), why not just shoot them in the heart?

george burns said:

If at close range, "on top of you" the 'zipper technique works well", Drawing and holding the gun at holster height, with your gun "hand", tilted away from the body so as not to interfere with the slide. Try to get your head over the weapon and fire at the testicles, working your way up to the head, Thus the zipper, the lower body is the first thing you hit as the gun is at that level, when - un holstered "most of the time", tilting back make your hit's go higher if you are not able to extend your arm. Just another method to try.

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“Head over the weapon?” With the gun tilted away from the body? At holster height? That is, well, to put it kindly, a contorted way to stand, while firing. Getting one’s body into that position wastes time, that one does not really have, and makes it easier for a charging opponent to eat one’s lunch.

Let us learn to think beyond our guns. Let us get out of the “stand and deliver” mindset. Fights in the street are battles of maneuver.

If an opponent is advancing, I want to get away from his line of attack, and my footwork has to be fluid, and balanced. All else being equal, I’d prefer to get outside of or behind his weapon arm, perhaps get a piece of that arm.

If I am going to select a genital-level target, one or both of the hip joints is far higher priority, if I am defending myself with a firearm.

I have to ask this question of the respondents to this subject whom among you has been involved in a shooting incident? Are you speaking from experience or your training application?

Hangingrock said:

I have to ask this question of the respondents to this subject whom among you has been involved in a shooting incident? Are you speaking from experience or your training application?

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1. I have.

2. Both. Experience and training. Neither makes me any kind of expert.

It always disturbed me when I was in uniform that it placed my badge almost directly over my heart, giving a nice target to aim for. lol

Although we practiced double tap and head shots, the center mass shots were first. A head can move about quickly even while the body stays still.

Rexster said:

Fights in the street are battles of maneuver.

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Indeed. Although I have little firearm experience in this regard, I have plenty of CQC experience with this.

Fights on the street are 100% about not even having to think, to execute. You have no time to consider just about anything. You can practice in a Dojo or on a range all you like, but unless you are at the point of reacting automatically at the danger to overcome, you actually have no idea how you will react. When you are at the point of completely reacting automatically, it's over before it truly begins, and most of the time, you have no recollection of what you did. It happens that fast.

I’m generally not a fan of the appeal to authority, especially with gun stuff, but I’m firmly with Clint Smith on this one. If I’m in a shootout I’m going to shoot the bad guy in any part I have a clear shot at. Center mass or cranial vault is preferred, but if all I can see is a knee then goodbye kneecap!

Warning for language:

Center of Mass, first time every time. Adjust point of aim if that fails. In real life it is almost impossible to place your shots with pin point accuracy. The "shoot to wound" theory, is just that, a theory. Nice to talk about but almost never possible. Shoot to kill/incapacitate. Those two words are kind of interchangeable. If your shot to kill renders the bad guy not a threat anymore....mission accomplished.

Might have missed it, but didn’t see the pelvic girdle mentioned. Numerous reasons why this location should be high on your shot placement.

I have read that under stress most people shoot high, I read of one Union Regimental commander who.always ended The Speech "And aim low!". Aim at your enemy's belly and if you shoot 6-12" high you'll still hit him.

hardin22 said:

Might have missed it, but didn’t see the pelvic girdle mentioned. Numerous reasons why this location should be high on your shot placement.

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What reasons do you see there being?

BLACKHAWKNJ said:

I have read that under stress most people shoot high, I read of one Union Regimental commander who.always ended The Speech "And aim low!". Aim at your enemy's belly and if you shoot 6-12" high you'll still hit him.

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I have heard this before, but never seen any sort of data or study that actually supports the claim. Hard to know if it is accurate or not. Looking at shootings on video, it would seem that most misses are lateral and/or lateral and low.

I’m sorry you feel that way. With the uptick of popularity in body armor, the pelvic girdle is the next largest body surface area available. Also, a vascular and debilitating location. In a close quarters defensive situation, depending on how you’ve learned or been taught to draw, the initial draw position is naturally directed toward this location in which you can begin firing from.

Wish you the best with your training.