Lever Guns: 1873 vs 1892

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JeeperCreeper

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I've been playing Red Dead Redemption again on these dark winter nights. Got a lever gun itch again.

Browsing the Winchester catalog for .357 levers, I see plenty of 1873 models and 1892 models.

Started watching some Forgotten Weapons videos on both and on Winchester, and Ian keeps mentioning the 92 is a Browning improvement over the 66 and 73. But how? Is the 92 really much better than the 73 in today's models?

I assume ease of manufacturer and simplification, but I can't find a good solid answer.

Basically, I like the look of the 73 more. I might buy one this summer if I can find one. Or should I get the 92.

Or heck, maybe a Henry just for range work.

Marlin is out, and I already have 2 Remlins in big calibers, not gonna wait for a pistol caliber Ruger version.

What says THR?

What's your favorite for playing cowboy?
 
1873 has the weak toggle link that goes all the way back to the Volcanic Arms action.

The 1892 is an entirely different, rather than incrementally improved action, based on two equilateral rear locking lugs. And the 1892 receiver is solid sided, with no side plates like the 1873.

The 1873 is iconic and can be made very fast. It is chambered in 357 Mag. The '92 is a very solid, reliable and handy levergun.
 
The 73 is generally smoother the 73 has a toggle and is not the strongest design, modern metals help but even with a 357 mag I'd reload lower psi rounds. The 92 is very strong, in uses 2 blocks that are similar to the 1885 Browning high wall single shot. Both feel nice but the 92 is a joy to carry.
Can't go wrong with either, if you like the 92 Rossi makes a copy there about half the price of the Winchester and are pretty good for the money.

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Ive only owned a Rossi 92....so by default that's the only one im comfortable recommending, and I AM very comfortable recommending one.

I also prefer the way the '73s look, and I really LIKE the toggle link action just because its cool. Still tho, Id only buy a 73 as a pure curiosity. Even with Moder metallurgy, machining, and testing.....that action just doesn't inspire confidence for me. Were I buying a new PC lever gun, Id go with a Henry in a long arm, and a R92 in a carbine.
 
The toggle link?

Is that the piece that basically is like the metal "elbow" or "knee" that joints/bends when the lever is thrown?

I think I saw that in one of the videos, I just had no concept of good or bad.

I thought it looked genius
 
The toggle link?

Is that the piece that basically is like the metal "elbow" or "knee" that joints/bends when the lever is thrown?

I think I saw that in one of the videos, I just had no concept of good or bad.

I thought it looked genius
yeah its like flexing your arm straight out to lock then bracing your elbow to keep it from bending down again. You still have flex at your wrist, elbow, and shoulder.....I think its super neat, but that gives a lot of points to flex......well i guess it would kinda be like sticking both arms out straight and holding a stick or something.........well...kinda...anyway, yeah if your gonna run lower energy loads its probably fine, but it would still make me nervous with full power .357.
 
I am having the same dilemma Jeeper , I am having a hard time choosing . I like the looks of the 73 better , but I like the stronger action and lightweight of the 92 better . To add even more thought to my decision , I can’t decide .357 or.45 Colt . I have a revolver in .45 Colt , so I am leaning .45 on that decision .
 
LGS has a "white" Taylor '73 and a blem (one scratch on stock) Uberti '73. One in .357 and the other in .45. He also has a way back Win, not sure if it is a 92 - but I know it is not a 94, with a 24 inch barrel - but it is pricey....

I just LOOK at these things and sigh. I am, so far, content with my Marlin "JM" 1894 Cowboy limited in .45.
 
If you want a lever-action in a magnum caliber, I strongly recommend the 1892. Others have correctly stated it's strengths, and Troy Fairweather's diagrams comparing the two designs show very well why the '92 is stronger. In fact, the 1892, originally made for the .44-40, .38-40, .32-20 rounds, all being what we would consider pistol rounds, was really over-built for those. John Browning designed it really quick -- basically downsizing his 1886, which was designed for .45-70 class rounds.

The 1873 design is stronger than often credited. The toggle doesn't line up truly straight, the knuckle is slightly higher than an imaginary straight line between the two end joints.
However, it is still weaker than the Browning designed 1892. While both Uberti and Miroku make excellent guns, I remain very skeptical of the toggle link design for any magnum. I have two levers in magnum; a Browning B-92 in .44 magnum and Marlin 1894 Cowboy in .357 magnum.

Please stay with the 92 design if you want to shoot magnums.;)
 
What Tommygunn said. I personally got over magnumitus a long time ago and I’m perfectly content shooting Cowboy action loads or my handloads slightly hotter. I killed the buck in the picture using CB action loads. He was under 50 yards and the bullet was a complete pass through,lungs/heart. He piled up in 75 yards. I can’t say for sure but I think a shoulder shot would have dropped him right there. I like the high percentage shots even if I have to track a bit
 
However, it is still weaker than the Browning designed 1892. While both Uberti and Miroku make excellent guns, I remain very skeptical of the toggle link design for any magnum. I have two levers in magnum; a Browning B-92 in .44 magnum and Marlin 1894 Cowboy in .357 magnum.
Yep there's nothing that says you can't have a 73 in 38-40, a 92 in 45Colt and 44 Mag and a 94 Marlin in 357 other than a wife and I have so many now I pull the "oh that ones been in the back of the safe for years"
 
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One of the differences between the 1873 and the 1892 is weight. The 1892 is a lot lighter than the 1876. Winchester touted the weight difference in the advertising of the day.

But, the 1873 continued in production along side the 1892 into the 20s so it was hard to say which was better even back then.

As for strength, neither one was offered chambered for magnum cartridges. Both were more than enough for the cartridges they chambered.

Kevin
 
IF you put a .44-40 cartridge in a .38-40 1873 Winchester rifle, the only way to clear the jam is disassembly.
With a .38-40 Winchester 1892 or a .38-40 Marlin 1894, all you have to do is eject the .44-40 cartridge to clear the jam.

BUT with the right cartridge in the right gun, the Winchester 1873 has fully controlled feed and is almost fool proof (regardless of how inventive fools may be).

On the other hand, the Winchester 1892 is simply stronger than the 1873, actually stronger than the Winchester 1894, and probably a better choice all things considered for "pistol caliber carbine".
 
The difference is considerable. While the toggle link Winchesters are elegant and beautiful, they are also relatively weak actions and heavier than they need to be. The 1892 is all muscle. Not only is it more compact and lighter but it is also considerably stronger. It is not only the strongest pistol cartridge levergun action but stronger than most rifle length actions with regards to pressure. Over 20yrs ago, when Ruger made the .454 more popular than it had ever been before, every major manufacturer tried to adapt their existing guns to it, to no avail. The Marlin 1894, 336/1895, Winchester 94, none could take it. The wide body Big Bore 94 did well as long as the pressure was reduced to 50,000psi. Note that only the 1892 has ever been offered in the chambering, along with the 48,000psi .480 Ruger.
 
I have a Uberti '73 in .357. It's a fairly heavy rifle and very nice to shoot in all respects. It's a beautiful rifle. I have a Browning '92 in .44 Mag. It is also gorgeous and is very light and handy to boot. It also does a number on your shoulder after a while if you take it to the range. A heavier rifle in .44 Mag would be my choice and a .357 in a lighter carbine! I would swap the calibers on these rifles if I could... and if the '73 in it's modern iteration could handle it. As my gunsmith said about the '73, "It says .357 Magnum on the barrel; go forth and shoot .357 Magnum cartridges." Can't speak for a .44 Mag in a '73.
 
Howdy

Here is an Uberti Model 1873 rifle with the side plate removed for a clear view of the toggle link action. In this photo, the lever is all the way up in the shooting position, although the hammer is not cocked, as it would be if the rifle was ready to fire. The toggle links are in their 'locked' position. Note that the three pivot points of the toggle links are in line. Actually, the middle link is ever so slightly out of line, being slightly above the other two. That is part of the design. There are two sets of toggle links, only one is visible in this photo, the other is a mirror image of this one and is directly behind this one. Side note: the Lever Spring at the bottom of the photo is an aftermarket part, it is not the original Uberti leaf spring

This photo also illustrates the 'skeletonized' nature of a toggle link frame. The side plates are separate pieces.

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The lever has started to be lowered in this photo. There are three pivot pins for the toggle links. The rear pivot pin is fixed in the frame. The middle pivot pin is attached to an extension of the lever. As the lever is opened, the extension on the lever begins to pull the middle pivot pin down and to the rear. This makes the links start to fold. The front pivot pin is attached to the bolt, and as the links fold, the front pivot pin pulls the bolt straight back..

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The lever is now opened all the way. The extension of the lever has pulled the middle pivot pin all the way back and the links are completely folded. The front pivot pin has pulled the bolt all the way back. The bolt extension, which is attached to the bolt, has pushed the hammer all the way back to full cock. A nub on the lever has kicked the lifter bar up and it has in turn raised the brass cartridge elevator. The top of the elevator is visible protruding from the top of the frame.

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Notice the two arrows at the lower right corner of the photo. They are pointing to the Lever Safety. This is a feature unique to the Model 1873, the 1860 Henry and the Model 1866 Winchester lacked this feature. The Lever Safety is a single piece with two 'prongs' that extend down through the frame. A spring exerts downward pressure on the Lever Safety. When the lever is open, the Lever Safety pops down and the front portion prevents the trigger from being pulled. When the lever is closed, it shoves the Lever Safety up, allowing the trigger to be pulled. This is not a modern 'lawyer dictated' safety feature only found on modern reproductions of the 1873 Winchester. Early on in production of the 1873, Winchester engineers included this feature because they saw the danger posed if the trigger is accidentally pulled before the toggle links are in the locked position. If the trigger is accidentally pulled before the links are in the 'locked' position, and if a cartridge fires, recoil can drive the bolt back, causing the links to fold. Modern Uberti 1873 replicas have a very strong spring keeping the Lever Safety in the downward position. The force of the spring must be overcome to open the lever. Some Cowboy Action shooters have objected to the Lever Safety and have removed it, or removed the spring. This is a mistake. Without the safety provided by the Lever Safety, an out of battery discharge can allow the bolt to move back forcefully, and the bolt extension, which was only attached to the bolt by the thin pin shown in this photo, can fly back towards the shooters eye when the pin sheared. At the very least, an out of battery discharge with a Model 1873 replica will sting the shooters hand as the lever snaps forward. I was at one match where the lever broke off in the shooter's hand when it snapped forward. Anyway, there are after market spring available if one wants to lessen the strength of the Lever Safety spring.

Interestingly enough, true to the originals, modern replicas of the 1860 Henry and 1866 Winchester lack the Lever Safety. Care must be exercised when shooting them so as not to accidentally brush the trigger while closing the lever.




All the toggle link rifles have an open top frame. The 1873 has a sliding dust cover that slides back the first time the action is worked so empties can be ejected. The dust cover stays back unless manually pushed forward by the shooter. This is a top down photo of my Uberti 1873. It is chambered for the original 44-40 cartridge. The carrier is in the lower position with a round on the carrier. The rim of the next round in the magazine tube can be seen pressing against the round on the carrier. There is no 'cartridge stop' on the carrier of a toggle link rifle, the length of the round in the carrier determines how much of the next round will poke out of the magazine tube. As the carrier rises, a bevel on the carrier shoves the next round back into the magazine tube. If the round on the carrier is too short, the next round will protrude too far, blocking the carrier from rising. These rifles are set up at the factory to feed the standard length cartridges fine, but a round that is too short will block the carrier from rising. When the carrier rises to the feed position, the round is lined up with the chamber and feeds in in a straight line, just like a torpedo being fed into the torpedo tube of a submarine. This is one of the features of toggle link rifles that fast CAS shooters like, it makes for very smooth feeding of a round into the chamber.

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The dust cover on an original Winchester Model 1873 rifle in the forward position. Yes, it has been marred where somebody was messing with the badly buggered up screw.

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This is a view down from the top of my Uberti 1860 Henry. Notice the lack of a dust cover, the action is always open. A 44-40 round is sitting on the carrier, ready to rise and be fed into the chamber.

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An original Winchester Model 1892 chambered for 44-40.

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When Winchester bought the patent rights for his single shot rifle, which eventually became the Model 1885 single shot, John Browning already had a design completed for a rifle to replace the Winchester Model 1876. The 1876 was a 'larger version' of the Model 1873, designed for longer, more powerful cartridges, too large for the 1873 action. The 1876 was simply a bigger version of the 1873. It too had a toggle link action. However it was never chambered for 45-70 because the cartridge was simply too long, and the frame would be really, really long to accommodate it. Browning had come up with a completely new design for long 'rifle' caliber cartridges, such as the 45-70. As they did with all his patents for almost the next 20 years, Winchester bought the patent rights to his design. The new rifle was produced as the Model 1886 Winchester.



The Model 1892 Winchester was basically a scaled down version of the Model 1886, for shorter cartridges such as 44-40, 38-40, 32-20, 25-20, and the .218 Bee.

Because of its popularity with the shooting public, the Model 1873 continued to be produced up until 1923. However the model 1892 was stronger, lighter, and less expensive to produce than the Model 1873. I can state that a Model 1873 with a 24" barrel weighs a full pound more than a Model 1892 with a 24" barrel, I have weighed them.

The Model 1892 has two locking lugs that ride in grooves in the frame. There is no dust cover, the bolt itself closes the top of the action when the bolt is closed.

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Unlike the toggle link rifles, the frame of both the 1886 and 1892 are one solid piece. In this photo, a Model 1886 is at the top and a Model 1892 is at the bottom. Both have their actions open, with the bolts fully to the rear, cocking the hammers. The levers have pulled the locking lugs straight down. This photo shows how much more massive the 1886 was than the 1892. It also shows the respective cartridges they fired, a 45-70 for the 1886, a 44-40 for the 1892. There was no lever safety in the design of the 1886 or 1892. The lugs would have already locked the bolt in position before the lever was completely closed, so if the trigger was accidentally tripped, the bolt was not going anywhere.

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The carrier of the 1886 and 1892 was a tilting carrier. Unlike the carriers of the toggle link rifles, which presented a round straight on to the chamber, a round being fed into the chamber of a 1886 or 1892 rides up into the chamber at a slant. This can sometimes cause feeding problems with cartridges loaded with a bullet with sharp corners, such as semi-wadcutter bullets. Sometimes the corner will hang up on the edge of the chamber as it tries to enter the chamber. Not much different than bullets sometimes jamming riding up the feed ramp of a 1911 pistol. For what it's worth, I always load my ammunition for all my lever rifles with Flat Nosed Round Point bullets.

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There you have the differences between a Model 1873 and a Model 1892 in a nutshell. Yes, modern steel makes the modern reproductions of the 1873 rifles stronger than the antiques. But the action is never truly 'locked' as it is with a modern rifle with locking lugs. Think of yourself standing up and some joker comes up behind you and shoves your knees forward. You will collapse like a sack of potatoes. It is the same story with a toggle link rifle, they are never truly 'locked up' when at battery. Also, every Italian firearm made is proofed in government proof houses, to standards that are a little bit stricter than our SAAMI standards. So an Italian 357 Magnum 1873 will have been proofed for modern 357 Magnum ammunition. However, a friend of mine bought a used 357 Magnum Uberti 1873 many years ago. When he got it home he discovered a hairline crack in the frame. He got his money back. No telling what had caused the crack, how many rounds had been put through the rifle by a previous owner, nor how hot they were loaded. But the frame was cracked.
 
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DJ, a truly remarkable post!


Well, I have over a dozen Cowboy long guns and , excepting the Shiloh Sharps that cost 5X as much and has a 25 pound barrel, the best looking that is within reason to carry is my Uberti pump carbine in .45 Colt; case hardened side plates, octagonal barrel, nice walnut.

But you have to know how to shoot it as, a true replica, one must hold it in battery as it does not lock.

Sentimentally would be my dad's .30-30 short barrel Winchester '66 Centennial with brass receiver. He bought it 65 years ago at Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC, as did another by a young Tom Brokaw. Bet the serial numbers are close.
 
Well, I have over a dozen Cowboy long guns and , excepting the Shiloh Sharps that cost 5X as much and has a 25 pound barrel, the best looking that is within reason to carry is my Uberti pump carbine in .45 Colt; case hardened side plates, octagonal barrel, nice walnut.

But you have to know how to shoot it as, a true replica, one must hold it in battery as it does not lock.

Sentimentally would be my dad's .30-30 short barrel Winchester '66 Centennial with brass receiver. He bought it 65 years ago at Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC, as did another by a young Tom Brokaw. Bet the serial numbers are close.

What is your pump? Is it a replica of the Colt Lightning? I have only fired one once, operating it confused the dickens out of me.

I had to look up the '66 Centennial Winchester, because the Model 1866 was not long enough for the 30-30 cartridge. Turns out the '66 Centennial was a version of the Model 1894, which has always been long enough for a 30-30.

I have a similar story about Abercrombie and Fitch in NYC. Back in the 1930s my grandfather bought my Dad his first rifle in the NYC Abercrombie and Fitch store on Madison Avenue. It was a little Winchester Model '06 pump action 22 Long Rifle gallery rifle. That was a long time ago, long before Abercrombie and Fitch became a yuppie clothing store.

Here is my Dad's little Model '06.

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Here is my Dad shooting it on the shore of Lake Katahdin in Maine in 1931. He would have been 15 at the time, about the age I was when he gave me the little pump gun. Dig the knickers!

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Not sure but it was purchased in New York too, but out on the island (people can own handguns there).

If by "confusing" you mean that if you don't maintain pull apart it just goes "click" then likely yes.

Love the .22 pump. My Brazilian knock off has taken countless varmints.

Yeah BITD A&F was a true sporting goods department store. I bought climbing hardware there!
 
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